Amph The Amazing Spider-Man (and Spin-offs)

Discussion in 'Community' started by Spiderfan, May 20, 2008.

  1. Jedi-Anakin-Solo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 26, 2001
    star 6
    I missed these from all 3 movies for sure. We really only got one good smart-ass spidey quip in the first one ("That's a cute outfit, did your husband get it for you?").

    QFT. James Franco was the best actor in that movie.


    The whole "You thought it was this guy but it was really this other guy that killed Uncle Ben... and oh, it was an accident" was so detrimental to Spider-Man's character. Especially after letting Sandman go.. I mean that was his whole motivation to BE Spider-Man.
  2. Angel_Blue Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2006
    star 2
    I agree. The reason Peter becomes Spider-Man in the first place is because he realized that if he had done the responsible thing (stopping the robber), Uncle Ben would have have lived. The third movie destroys that by saying some other guy killed Uncle Ben, which means that not only did Peter's decision not to stop the robber have no impact, but the confrontation Peter has with the robber in which he beats the daylights out of him is meaningless. It was a very weak decision and I hope that whoever had that particular brainfart is not involved in any future sequels.
  3. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    I agree. The only decision stupider than that is probably the complete inaction of Harry's butler, who watched as his employer destroyed both his life and company over something that was very obviously a lie. Only after it was too late, when young Harry was left permanently disfigured, probably crippled, deeply alienated from everyone he ever cared about, and without much credibility as an executive, did his butler bother to disclose the truth that could've saved him from a world of pain.
  4. Angel_Blue Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2006
    star 2
    That's a good point, I never even thought of that. Man, that movie has holes you could fly a jet through.

    Speaking of stupid scenes, was anyone else baffled by the ridiculousness of the scene where they give Spider-Man the keys to the city? It seemed almost comically out of place, considering that a major part of Spider-Man's character is supposed to be that most people don't trust him.
  5. gonzoforce Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 27, 2002
    star 5
    if Raimi has total control, then this could be good.
  6. PMT99 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2000
    star 4
    I think Peter's decision not to stop the robber still has impact.

    If he hadn't let him escape, the robber wouldn't be around to freak out Sandman causing him to fire his gun by accident. That way, Uncle Ben would still be alive since Sandman never intended on killing him. Even if Spidey wanted to capture Sandman, the guy is still a walking pile of sand and it would be impossble to grab something that can easily slip through your fingers.

    The butler was protecting Harry's feelings for his father.

    He didn't want Harry to know that his father is the Green Goblin and even when he did find out, Harry didn't know the whole story on the final confrontation between his father and Peter. Harry lost his memory from his 1st attack on Peter so that spared him the trouble of learing the awful truth but that didn't last. Only when Harry got hurt badly from the 2nd attack did the butler finally come clean.
  7. Spiderfan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2004
    star 6
    There have been a number of ways, throughout the comics, that have proven effective at capturing Sandman, so its not impossible, just incredibly difficult.
  8. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    While that's not entirely implausible, I do think it qualifies as a stretch. And that's part of the problem. It looks very much like a painfully transparent, ham-fisted attempt to add some emotional heft to what would otherwise be a no name, unimportant character. It's much the same phenomenon as everyone being each other's padawan in the PT. It pointlessly convoluted the story, and just seemed sort of tacked on after the fact, once they realized no one had a reason to care about a given confrontation.

    Yeah, I understand that. It just seems totally unrealistic. What sort of emotional fallout from learning the truth would've been worse than raging alcoholism, running the family business into the ground, developing a vitriolic obsessiveness that alienated all his friends, and subsequently attempting to murder said friends? At the very least, once it was clear Harry had discovered that his father was the Green Goblin, one would think the butler might've come forward. My issue is that he seemed to have less of a motive to speak up at the time he actually did than at dozens of points previous.
  9. Spiderfan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2004
    star 6
    Perhaps the notorious drug-addiction and eventual psychosis that plagued him...though the latter came from a bad batch of an ill-conceived Goblin formula rather than the painful truth about his father (whom he knew about immediately after Norman's death anyways).
  10. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    Okay, but you're telling me that he's willing to take those sort of risks so that Peter can have help getting back his girlfriend, but is unwilling to take those sort of risks when it's Harry's own life, health, and career that's at stake?
  11. Spiderfan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2004
    star 6
    Oh no, that was ridiculous as was much of the film. I am just saying I would have loved if they explored further into Harry's madness and his constant need to seek his father's approval despite his father being dead, and clearly being the villain etc.
  12. Crash_Davis Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 2006
    star 5
    That would have been quite interesting to see, especially watching Harry sink further into madness post-amnesia.

    Again, with too many villains, we're just getting quantity over quality.

    Although I agree with spiderfan a few posts back. If they do a cameo of a lesser villain (Vulture, Shocker, etc.) fine, as long as they don't try to flesh out a 2:30 film with mediocre characters.

    Which begs the question, where does the story arc go from here? Now that GG, Ock and the poorly used Venom are out of the picture, what other heavy-hitters are left in Spidey's rogues gallery? Is there really anyone left to fill out a 2:30 movie? Kraven? Mysterio? The Chameleon?

  13. Spiderfan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2004
    star 6
    Lizard is a popular choice given that Doctor Connors has been present for at least two movies and would be the development of a character we are already familiar with. However I can't see him carrying and entire film himself.

    Carnage is one a lot of people keep repeating as a possibility given that Connors still has a piece of the symbiont somewhere, but I find that unlikely since Raimi was reluctant to use Venom to begin with, and with his restored creative control I get the feeling he will probably look to a character from the older section of the Rogues Gallery.

    Kraven is another popular choice and someone that it would be interesting to see brought to life, but like Lizard I am not sure where you could go with it.

    Many are begging for the appearance of the Black Cat, who has been in several drafts of a couple of the movies so far and IIRC they were even doing some preliminary character designs for her a while back.

    There is talk of working towards a Sinister Six in the next movie, having some characters return, so its possible to see a smattering of lesser characters.

    And though it may not be a popular choice I am still of the opinion that Norman Osborn could return, given his continued presence in the films and his infamous resurection in the comics.

    I am hoping for someone like Kingpin, but I don't know what the deal with Fox is over the use of various Daredevil characters right now. I think an all out gang war would make a terrific plot for a film or two. Bring in characters like Silvermane, Hammerhead, The Owl etc. And it could be an opportunity for Spider-Man to develop more of a relationship with Captain Stacy or bringing in classic cop characters like Jean DeWolfe and Stan Carter (thus presenting the possibility of s Sin Eater storyline). Only problem with that is that it might become too similar to The Dark Knight.

    Regardless of who they do I hope this time they have one solid, central plotline focusing on one person or one element, and all secondary characters are given a lesser role. No more of this three villains sharing equal screentime non-sense.
  14. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    I say they should convince Universal to negotiate a profit-sharing deal with Paramount so they can make Spider-Man vs. The Incredible Hulk.

    And don't even bother bringing back Maguire or Dunst. Hire a good voice-actor who can deliver Spidey's lines right and keep him in costume played by stuntmen/CGI the whole time. They can and should still cutaway to the Bugle and JJJ every so often.
  15. Spiderfan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2004
    star 6
    Paramount has nothing to do with Spider-Man. AFAIK the rights are still held by Sony Pictures who won't be keen on letting go of it anytime soon.
  16. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    Oops, I got all mixed up. Paramount released Iron Man.

    And Universal just RELEASED TIH. So I guess what I meant to say is that Marvel Studios should work something out with Sony.
  17. Spiderfan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2004
    star 6
    Honestly I am not sure what really could be added to Spider-Man by bringing in the Hulk when there is so much of the Spider-Man story left unexplored. Besides, the Hulk's involvement in The Avengers should satisfy in lieu of a sequel.
  18. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    But with this cast, I personally don't have much desire to explore the story any further (Simmons as JJJ excepted of course).

    Also, I think audiences are finally getting tired of the angsty 'being a superhero sucks' schtick. Yes, characters need to have depth and dramatic realism, but at the end of the day kids are supposed to on some level want to BE Spider-Man, or Iron Man, or even the Hulk.

    "With great power comes great responsibility" doesn't mean it's no fun to be Spider-Man. It just means there are rules to the fun.
  19. Spiderfan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2004
    star 6
    I am not sure what that has to do with bartering a deal for a Hulk crossover but alright?? :p

    You will never get away from the angst of Spider-Man simply because its so entrenched in who he is and why does what he does. However, now that the first story arc is out of the way its entirely possible that they step away from the uncertain Spider-Man and get into bigger broader stories with more confidence. And as for the cast, largely I have felt they have done well. Granted there are changes I would have made and the 3 leads have always been pretty weak, but with Harry gone and MJ's future in the franchise questionable, there is only Maguire left to really be a problem. If they can manage to get his character back to where it was in SM2 I will be satisfied. After all, part of what makes the character interesting is his ability to keep moving forward despite being tethered by responsibility to an endlessly crappy life. :p
  20. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    I understand that there has to be SOME angst, it's just that in the comics I've read it tends to be much more playful than in these movies. He gets frustrated, but not self-indulgently morose.

    I just think the Hulk would be fun, partly because they wouldn't have to spend half the movie explaining who the bad guy is and where he gets his powers like they would with any other villain, and partly because Spidey vs. Hulk done right would be awesome to watch.
  21. Spiderfan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2004
    star 6
    Well the level of angst is dependent on the writer of the comic usually. IMO the best authors are the ones who balance the line between Spidey's playful witty banter, and his angsty inner monologue, that seems to be ever present. Even Stan Lee's Spidey did nothing but piss and moan about how bad his life was half they time...its rare that he is actually grateful for what he has. And thats all his pre-Gwen's Death/Clone Saga/Symbiont days. Personally I think Bendis does it best in his take on Spidey in Ultimate Spider-Man Vol 1.

    Honestly Spider-Man Vs. Hulk is only ever good when its done for laughs, and neither movie representation is equipped for that currently. Not to mention I can't see that carrying a plot, unless the Hulk is somehow a distraction for another villain's plot, but that borders too close to the Avenger's origin IMO.
  22. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    Indeed. The Hulk movies haven't really been that good, anyway. And the current Hulk film franchise seems to feature far more angst than does the current incarnation of Spiderman. Having the two of them "fight" would just be ridiculous. Unless you're just going to make one continuous, two hour long fight scene, it would seem like the situation would have to resolve itself fairly quickly, and life would move on. I don't see where there's any room for an actual plot.
  23. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    Honestly Spider-Man Vs. Hulk is only ever good when its done for laughs

    Hmm. I changed my mind. I no longer think Spider-Man vs. Hulk would be a good idea.

    I'd rather see Hulk vs. Spider-Man. And I want Tobey in it, playing the part just like in Spider-Man 3. That way HE can be the bad guy, and the heroic Hulk can smash his face in. Played for laughs? I'd be giggling with delight.
  24. QueenMother_LK Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2009
    star 4
    I liked all the spider man movies (even 3 - I thought emo-spider man was just funny) I'm glad they're making more...any chance they'll ditch kirsten dunst?[face_praying]
  25. Jedi-Anakin-Solo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 26, 2001
    star 6
    That's another thing to gripe about in Spidey 3. I just wanted Mary Jane to shut the hell up. He's ******* Spider-Man, your problems are a little less significant than his.

    I *really* hope (though I know they won't) Sony gets with Marvel on this because they're clearly trying to establish all their movie characters in the same universe now (Hulk & Iron Man) and with Spidey arguably being their star hero, it's a real missed opportunity if they don't take advantage of this.