Discussion The Antagonist's Ideology... what will they be fighting for? (Poll included)

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilers Allowed' started by Ghost, Dec 29, 2013.

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What will the Antagonists be struggling to accomplish? (see descriptions in post)

The Destroyers 8 vote(s) 14.5%
The Gray Empire 8 vote(s) 14.5%
The Liberator 18 vote(s) 32.7%
The Philosopher-King of Utopia 16 vote(s) 29.1%
Other? (please explain in detail) 22 vote(s) 40.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Han Burgundy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2013
    star 3
    Agreed, I have a hard time imagining such a villian coming off as anything other than cartoonish, unless they explain that he's an apprentice of Palpatine and is fighting for vengeance, or something like that. Still, it wouldn't be thematically cohesive with the rest of the saga, which is the biggest thing to keep in mind.

    They can do both, I think. The rhyming could come in other forms. And it would form a nice alternation, or a circle, between the three trilogies. In the first, the good guys are in power and fighting against a separatist movement, in the second the good guys are ragtag rebels fighting against a dominant empire, and in the third the good guys are newly in power and fighting against a rebellion/invading force of their own.
    Last edited by Han Burgundy, Dec 31, 2013
  2. appleseed Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2002
    star 4
    "Must there be a Jedi Order?" should be the question the ST asks.
  3. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    But haven't we seen that before too much? I mean, I could see it happening again, but only with an original twist... like within the options I provided.

    Wouldn't that second group be the protagonists? :p If there's more "law & order" antagonists, I hope it's in the mold of the Gray Empire or the Utopian God-King. Otherwise, it would be a rehash of what already came before.
  4. Dra--- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2012
    star 5
    You know, I had the flu when you posted this awesome thread, @Ghost, and I'm trying hard to remember what my Other choice(s) were. [face_coffee]

    Anyway, I love the Gray Empire option. That could either be an Imperial Remnant with their own Jedi Order, or even the Republic morphing into a militarist democracy-oligarchy (like America). What makes a Jedi or force user gray in this scenario is that they don't serve the darkside or their own selfish pursuits. Instead they are honorable warriors who view themselves as patriotic servants of their world. And if their emperor or leader aren't serving the darkside either, then they're simply pursuing logical military and political goals -- similar to the PT Jedi. In short, they're serving the will of something other than the dark or light side of the Force. One day that might mean heroic action; another it might mean the killing of innocents. It would be difficult for Luke and the Jedi, if they remain limited binary thinkers, to know exactly how to approach such a gray antagonist.

    For Other maybe I was just going to suggest that the Utopian King could also be a non-Sith. In fact, it might be best if a Utopian figure thought themselves beyond good and evil. So neither Jedi nor Sith; or maybe just Jedi -- a rigid figure like Mace. This figure would be authoritarian and so right and wrong wouldn't be rational, but commanded by them. Ever hear of Divine Command Theory? Right is right not for a reason, but simply because God commands it. I think that's the only way a Utopia could function. Or maybe another way would be the Enigma Utopia. The EU (haha) would function based on the idea of mystery. The citizens might think certain acts of the leader horrendous, but when the leader explains their reasons, the reasons are beyond the understanding of the citizens. This makes life in this EU very difficult because the citizens have to ignore their own moral impulses and intuitions and put blind faith into this leader. The upshot is a beautiful life of little struggle or suffering as long as one has faith. If one doesn't have faith, it all begins to seem a little mad and monstrous.

    But I think the most realistic antagonist ideology will be Sith or darkside. I figure we'll either 1) have new Banite Sith with the same goals, 2) have some kind of reformer Sith who wants to do away with the Rule of Two and have revenge on the Jedi/Republic, or 3) some new darkside group that functions like religious fanatics (they demand total allegiance to the darkside or they sacrifice you; they even have a spell that makes the average person "possessed" by the darkside).

    Revenge and totalitarian order are probably still the most likely ideological goals.
    Last edited by Dra---, Jan 4, 2014
  5. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    Why? (I know why you think Sith. I'm asking about the ideology and goals.)
  6. Dra--- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2012
    star 5
    The Sith ideology is all about totalitarian order (See: The Empire. See: Anakin's totalitarian beliefs in AOTC). So if we get Sith again, it follows that that would be the goal.

    And since the Sith have sought revenge against the Jedi before, and they've been destroyed by the Jedi yet again (ROTJ), then it's probable they will be seeking revenge yet again.

    I'm not necessarily arguing for these things, but they make sense if the Sith are back.
  7. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 4
    The utopian philosopher sounds new and more intriguing...especially if he or she has found a secret to something important that concerns everyone.
    Last edited by DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR, Jan 4, 2014
    Dra--- likes this.
  8. Spam Bot Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 16, 2012
    star 1
    I think all of those "archetypes" are wonderful and would like to see them all feature in the new trilogy. The Philosopher King is particularly intriguing, though. It would represent a great quandary for the Jedi heroes, as they might be ideologically compelled to destroy the Sith, no matter how idyllic his reign is.

    Great thread.
  9. DEATHCONQUEROR Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2011
    star 1
    Immortality/ultimate dark side power........though it was discussed in great detail in EU, we didn't see much of that at all in the actual movies besides an implied mention in Darth Plageuis' vocalized story in Ep III.
  10. StoneRiver Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 6, 2004
    star 4
    I voted Philosopher/Utopian King, but I'd like to see it with a slight twist to what has been proposed.

    I'd like the "king" himself be a non force user, with an agenda against all force users, desperately trying to put his version of "freedom, order and peace" throughout the GFFA, but unbeknownst to him, he is actually being influenced/manipulated by the Sith.

    EDIT: Not what I'd actually like, but what I'd like from the choices given :)
    I'm already getting what I'd actually like, and that's just more SW films.
    Last edited by StoneRiver, Jan 7, 2014
  11. Jedi Master Cheve Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 8, 2014
    I wish we could get a Vong Invasion but that probably won't happen.
  12. Darth_Corvus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2010
    star 4

    No it won't since it already happened once. I would prefer number four but it will inevitably be number one since that is the most shallow, one dimensional of the options.
  13. DealAlterer Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2012
    star 1
    Let's just hope his name isn't Darth ______.
    darklordoftech likes this.
  14. Sith-Mullet Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2003
    star 3
    It will be against Darth Watto, he will want to enslave everyone and have them work in his various intergalactic scrap yards where the good parts will be used to build a Steampunk version of DS3. :D
    Darkslayer likes this.
  15. Jedsithor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2005
    star 4
    The "true" nature of the Force. My idea is for an extra-galactic invasion from a civilisation whose beliefs and practices are completely alien to what we know of the Jedi and Sith. Instead of fighting people strong in the Dark Side, Luke and co would be fighting people whose perception of the Force as a whole is entirely different and are on a holy crusade to cleanse the galaxy of the heresy of Jedi and Sith alike.
  16. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    Any other ideas?

    Has anyone changed their mind?
  17. Darth_Articulate Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 4
  18. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    for thousands of years sith have been persecuted by the intolerant republic and jedi
    Darth_Articulate likes this.
  19. plaidphoenix Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2013
    star 4
    I should have put more thought into my vote because now I'm thinking Liberator/Philosopher King verses Destroyer. New Sith wanting to either take the Sith in a new direction or bring a new version of Order to the galaxy verses hidden/secret apprentice/follower of Sidious.wanting to re-impose Imperial Order on the galaxy with the heroes caught in the middle.
  20. markdeez Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 27, 2005
    star 3
    POWER. UNLIMITED POWER.
  21. purplerain Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 2013
    star 4
    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    markdeez likes this.