The Art of Fight Choreography

Here's what you do Vapor. You and your partner go out into the practice field, this time with real swords. Like if you actually were cut with one you might have to go to the hospital to get stitches. Now when you know your general health--maybe even your life--is on the line, then you'll know what your next move would be, because then you really are fighting for your life.

Problem solved.

 

That has got to be THE worst advice I've ever read regarding choreography. Fortunately, I've seen Vaportrail post before, and I believe he is smart enough NOT to do anything of the sort.

Vapor, some suggestions I have for you:

A. Step away completely from choreo--in other words, do ANYTHING else for a week or so. However I know this isn't always possible.
B. DRILLS! (see below)

1. Find yourself a simple "pattern" and repeat it with your partner until it becomes second-nature. I don't mean something complex, I mean literally like up to 5 or so "moves". Start with static footwork (read as: none), and work up to getting the moves to happen FAST. The pattern can be you on the attack the whole time, him on the attack the whole time, or a mixture--it's up to you, but keep it SIMPLE.

2. Once you've got it as "second nature"... try adding some footwork. Sort of "blend" naturally together, both choosing some kind of footwork/bodywork motion that helps aid your parry/attack. Whether it be bending both knees deep, lunging, or even using a 360 turn to transition energy from one target to the next. Jumping attacks can add a dynamic as well. NEVER forget how much footwork can add--even if the move is "simple".

3. Switch "roles". That is... teach one another what you've just done. Start WITHOUT the footwork, and then teach it with. Be specific and again--don't make it overly complex. Also, stay all smiles and be positive about looking/feeling the best you can with moves that may or may not be "natural" to YOU.

4. Go back to step #1, also returning to using your "original" setup (i.e. not switched roles and WITHOUT footwork)... and now attempt to attack/parry the EXACT same targets... but in an entirely different matter as you did before. This may mean instead of parrying with the sword/saber/whatever... you duck. Or perhaps you parry with an "inverted" grip... or perhaps you simply parry with one hand on the prop instead of two... or PERHAPS you have your tip facing down instead of up... etc. etc.

5. Repeat steps 2 & 3. After you get through it all... with any luck, your mind will have some "refreshment" on taking basic stuff and converting it into something "complex". And also, you will learn from your associate--since you and he are undoubtedly not "the same".

If you actually DO this (not just "try")... it should help you. If it still does not, I would say...

...STEP AWAY COMPLETELY FROM CHOREO ALTOGETHER for a while.

The only other thing I can say is... if you haven't already adopted SOME kind of target-distinction system (i.e. numbering or lettering or otherwise easily describing targets)... do so. You can only attack/defend so many targets... as the human body only has so many areas...

....but how you go ABOUT attacking/defending... now THAT is the fun part. And also fun for audiences to watch.

Good luck.

P.S. I have plenty of other suggestions, but that should be good for now.

 

That sounds interesting, I may have to try that. I did see a diagram on some fighting page of six major attack points, so that's usually what I think about (both arms, legs, head, torso).

It sounds like the non-direct approach. "Attack here.. now, how else could you get here?" Add some fun body motions, maybe a little artful exaggeration.. yeah. I'll try this out when next I'm getting into it. I have a number of fights I need to improve and choreograph this summer, so thanks Graytale.

-Vaportrail

 

I have an issue with switching roles with most of my opponents, as I am left handed and they have almost alway been right handed.

 

There are ways to deal with left/right handed conflicts. One way is to have the minority imitate the majority (in your case, use your right hand instead) The best way is to practice the fights in slowmo. This way, the director, whoever it may be, would be able to see how the sabers are hitting and thus can make adjustments on how to hold the lightsaber (underhanded, etc) with the different actors so that the actors have the most comfortable way to hold the saber and so that the footage looks the best within this comfort zone.

If all else fails, I guess holding it with two hands works, but I don't support that because it just looks bad. Unless you're using a dual-bladed lightsaber. That's an entirely different story.

 

I replied to Vapor specifically in a PM, but to also to help ALL of you:

1. Adopt a numbering system. How you do so is your business, but if people like, I will post some diagrams (although I think I did before) on what I think to be a very useful + quick & easy.... yet dynamic system.

2. Use the numbers to define TARGETS... not certain "moves". How you go about attacking/defending this target or that one is your business--and you can change the motions (bladework, hand positions, footwork), provided the target area remains the same for any given move. If you haven't already realized it--there are about a half dozens ways to defend against an attack to the head (or any other target).

3. Make a distinction between attacker and defender on any given moment/move! If you don't know who is doing what... how shall your audience? And if you don't want them to know--that is a choice... but a really cruddy one from a martial perspective. You can certainly attack and defend at the same time... but that usually would end in a "score"... or hit. Which is fine if that is what you want in that move.

By the way if you have a left-hander (hi, Silentbat... )... so what. The targets remain the same! Left side, right side--it's all the same. Again--how you go about stopping an attack (or making one) is your business. Although I naturally recommend a "strong against weak" blade relationship to cover #3 above.

That's about it for now.

 

I'll be sure to try to implement that when we start practicing this summer.

 

If it helps, great! I saw you and Whoppi's latest vid too... good job! As with all things--just keep on working, and things get better and better with more experience, practice, mistakes, successes, and all that. Any naysayers--just tell them "thank you, good point" and move forward.

One last thing (for those who don't know)... when you are using any "sword" weapon of any decent length (meaning 30" blade length or more, with a hilt length of 10" or more)...

...you are holding a FULCRUM. That means a lever. That means you use both PUSH and PULL in order to achieve speed. What the heck am I talking about? Your forward hand (right if you're r-handed) goes as close to the "emitter" or guard as possible. Your rear hand goes about as close to the pommel or end of the weapon as possible.

When you attack--while extending the arms toward the target... you push forward with the right, and pull back with the left (if you're r-handed). This also creates a nice "snapping" motion when you don't swing through on any given move.

All of the "film" dudes out there can increase their speed quite a bit using this with simple wooden dowels. This is what makes some of the LED saber choreography quick in BOP II. Despite the props weighing a lot more than any given "stick".

You can still use one hand anytime you like. The hand closest to the emitter is best for this, although you can sometimes get away with doing a "one hand holding near the pommel" thing too.

So many times, I see people holding a weapon incorrectly. Don't make that mistake. Increase speed! Increase control! Hold it properly.

I guarantee that you will get at least a 50% increase in transition speed (from this attack/parry to that one, etc.), and also tend to be more accurate when you really work on this technique.

 

Ooo! Question! What are some good exercises/drills to help with balance and endurance with a blade.

 

I'm not sure what you mean--you'll have to be more specific... but I'll try to interpret what you are saying.

1. Balancing a weapon. This comes from adding weight or taking it away, as appropriate. As a general rule, you want the weapon balanced just under the forward hand (below the emitter). Some prefer it just forward of that (at the 'ricasso'), which is about another hand/fist's length forward of the emitter. It all comes down to preference.

2. Finding the balance of a weapon. Place the weapon in your hand parallel to the ground. Now, use only one or two fingers underneath the saber in an attempt to find the balance where it literally stays still and does not fall. Remember, this is a fulcrum! Think of it like finding the balance point on a "see-saw" (yeah, you know, that goofy thing that goes up and down when you were a kid? That's just a LEVER or fulcrum).

If you find the weapon is "top" heavy... i.e. the balance point is too far forward up the blade... you either need to reduce the blade length... or add weight to the pommel/hilt.

If you find the weapon is "bottom" heavy... i.e. the balance point is too close to the pommel... you either need to reduce hilt weight... or add blade length.

Mostly, you will find an LED saber to be too TOP heavy. This is life. Not always, but mostly.

A "stick" prop will never be balanced correctly unless it is put into a hilt of some kind. You will find that the hilt will almost always be heavier than the blade, which is actually a good thing for "super-fast" movie moves. Granted, it doesn't equate to the weight of any true weapon.

3. Strengthening exercises. Repeat drills by attacking/defending all targets in a pattern of your choice. This means you will have about 6 to 8 "actual" attacks, as a human only has so many targets (head, arms, legs, etc. etc.) Repeat the pattern ad infinitum until you and your partner literally build up to such a super fast rhythm... that one of you messes up. No one should get "hit" if good technique is being used. Start the pattern over, and work up to speed. Do several reps, stop, break, etc.

4. Strengthening the legs. Literally jump as high as you can and stall the air time by bending the knees up a bit. Keep the knees bent up there, and land (somewhat "squatted"). Do 3 reps of 10 then have a short respite while your partner laughs at you... Then it's his turn to look like an idiot. Another thing you could do that looks less idiotic is just keep trying to "dunk" a b-ball in the hoop. Even if your air sucks. You'll improve. Jump, you bloody jedi, jump!

Another thing you can do to improve your speed and strength with movie prop sabers... is to not use them for warmup. Instead, use some kind of Luxeon LED saber. Even a Master Replica saber would do, although the blades are way too thin to make it a good strengthening exercise (with the exception of the Darth Maul--the blades on that one are a bit thicker, so it's a bit better).

After moving those around for a bit... when you move to your movie props... you'll feel like lightning incarnate!

For those doubting mustafas... think pro-baseball players... what do they do before an at-bat (on deck)... they put weights around the bat, swing it around for a while. Muscles get trained.

TRAINING, TRAINING, TRAINING. We could never do enough. Unfortunately, I'm getting old. hehehe

 

Wow this brings back memories of fencing...

 

Hi sirwicket... I like the Ferris Bueller quote, hahaha

How does it remind you of fencing, out of curiousity...

 

And if you need a clue as to how to hold it properly I made a Introduction the the proper wielding of a light saber 'from the fingers-up'. It's not a baseball bat.

In other news, you can expect a handful of fun fight scenes from me and the gang in the next few months; a hand to hand fight in Instability, a saber duel in Joyous Guard and some medieval swordplay in Lament. Stargate: Hades is also out in July but that's more gunplay than choreo.

 

I have to disagree with most of this (not the part about slow-mo, that's good). Left/Right handedness doesn't have to play into it that much. Sport fencers can tell you that it trips you up a little if you're not used to fighting a lefty, but it's hardly a huge problem, and that's probably the most asymmetrical combat out there. In two handed longsword combat (such as the Liechtenauer historical longsword system), most of the combat is fairly symmetrical.

I bring up historical longsword for a reason. In my opinion, it translates very well to lightsaber combat because it's designed around straight-bladed weapons with an overall length of about 4 feet, and can be operated with one or two hands. Preferably with two, however. Not just because of the weight, mind you, but you have much more control and strength with two hands, which is particularly necessary since it's also your shield, and this will show on screen. And there's no reason you can't switch between one and two-handed use during the fight as the situation calls for it. Your hand isn't locked into one position.

If you think it looks bad because it's less twirly, well, I can't help you there. Otherwise, you're probably just not dealing with people who know how to choreograph, let alone hold/swing, a sword in a two-handed fashion. Some of that may also just be a lack of good footwork. People tend to think very linearly when choreographing, it seems, and footwork tends to be largely ignored... (yes, you can step to the side of your opponent... it actually works!)

Now, just to be clear, I'm not saying you have to be a master swordsman to do good fight choreography. You don't have to be a martial artist to look good. But you can certainly draw some good ideas from historical combat that might work well for you. If you ever get the chance, take a look at some of the Liechtenauer longsword combat. You'd be amazed at how dynamic and fluid the combat can be, and it's a real martial art.

Take a look here: http://youtube.com/watch?v=Y3DhjFUOG6Y ... There's probably a lot more out there, but this is a good demonstration of some of the longsword tactics. Of course there are tactics you can't use with a lightsaber, such as half-swording (gripping the middle of the blade with your off-hand), but videos such as this can be a great resource. Take note of how a lot of the parries are turned into counter-attacks, often simultaneously. Take note of how the off-hand is sometimes used, and how many of the moves involve stepping to the side, and not just forward or back. Heck, just look at some of the cool throws at the end of it.

For some more good throws, look at these:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=UIFIn6tAI3A

http://youtube.com/watch?v=cXbZqKnwDbQ

http://youtube.com/watch?v=f6Pnw-9A8qQ

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2Y54lrNuWqw

 

BTW, I'm speaking in general terms here. I didn't immediately realize you were talking about trading pre-scripted roles... lol, that's what I get for not reading the thread carefully. If you're trading places for cross-training in the roles, I can see your dilemma, but it still doesn't have to be insurmountable. Most sword maneuvers will work equally well from either side, but you may have to alter the footwork and positioning accordingly if you're not switching to your off-hand to compensate. It'll be much more problematic in any sort of grappling, though.

 

Ok, since we're on "throws" a bit here... I hate to say this, but if people really listen to what I say here... they'll know EXACTLY what I mean, and why some "techniques" that are said to work in "real martial art"... won't work at all.

Most throws, disarms, and special moves that take more than one unit of time (or 1.5 at the most) that are DEMONSTRATED... focus *SOLELY* on the attacker "getting their way". Sort of like an "it's my turn" kind of thing.

If you don't understand what I mean... watch the above throw videos again... and instead of focusing on the ATTACKER... focus on the "defender".

You will note--the "defender"... is doing nothing of the sort. He pretty much stands there. The same goes (mostly) for the other longsword videos shown, as the initial move is made... and then they "freeze" in time and wait for the "cool guy" to execute whatever move is going on. This is most certainly NOT how it works in "real life". Time passes--everyone can be in action. Everyone.

The attacker's "technique" (in the videos) could actually be dissolved with numerous amounts of actions.

This is not to say that *SOME* of what is shown has merit for "actual martial art"... but mostly, you will find that the only moves that give you a REAL LIFE advantage... are those that can be executed in one single unit of martial art time... which is basically 1 second. You could take a bit more... maybe for a parry and quick riposte--about 1.5 seconds. Just remember that. Realistic... usually = 1 unit of time (or something close).

Counter-attacks (attacks that occur in opposition and during the same time as your opponent's) naturally are the most efficient way to move... as they attack and defend at the same time! But they are naturally the most difficult to get right, since you have no margin for error. If you do it wrong... oops... you're dead.

However--the counterattack... is not very good for sword/lightsaber combat "excitement". Problem is... that's a one-move piece of "choreography". Not (usually) very exciting. It can be--but only if you are dropping in filming/cinematography techniques to build the suspense, set the tone, etc. That's a different topic altogether. Something like "Where choreography meets cinematography". I'd like to see that.

I do agree with ZenBones that you can stand to study differing martial arts and incorporate what you like as your choreograph. But choreography is ultimately about ENTERTAINING the audience. The best "true" duels... last only seconds. Not very *exciting* to your average Joe Bear movie-goer.

I also (mostly) agree with Laszlo on how he's holding the weapon and using it as a lever... then again, it's just a stick, with no real balancing issues, weight, or otherwise. This is a primary concern for how to hold a weapon. A stick can be held any way you like, as its weight is ALWAYS at the center.

Finally... weapons of a very "lightweight" nature... often don't have much congruence when compared to weapons of a heavier nature. It's like when I compare LED saber combat to the fan film sticks and carbon fiber rods. It's somewhat apples to oranges. Although they are both fruit.

 

Oh, you're quite right, they are demonstrations and the defender does exactly what the attacker needs, if anything at all. But that's the point, you can see how the move is executed under "ideal" conditions, and use it as a source of inspiration. It's not a stretch to invent a routine where the defender does something reasonable, but is still a mistake. Likewise, there are counter-moves to all of these techniques, and hopefully one can find demonstrations of those too.

I'm certainly not suggesting you have one guy stand there and take it, obviously that's a bad idea. All fighters need to be busy all the time (unless there's a good reason), or you're just not going to sell it to the audience.

You're quite right about the timing, which is another whole discussion. It drives me nuts in videos to see bad timing... maneuvers that waste a "beat" just to keep the timing on track. Mostly this is noticeable when one of the fighters does nothing (or does something stupid like swing the sword behind their back and leave themselves open just because the other guy is wide open and recovering), but even some of the better films have some of this too, but hide it well. Take for example RvD2, the swing that Ryan takes from 0:49-0:51. From a choreography standpoint they can get away with this because it kept both fighters busy and the timing worked, but the attack is an overly-large and highly telegraphed move that takes twice as long as it needs to, leaves him open, and brings the attack in from a predictable direction. It gives Dorkman time to recover and spin around though. This makes me cringe every time I see it, but the fight still flows well through it.

So some of the things that I would consider horribly bad in a sword fight, and fairly bad in choreography, can still work, depending on the execution. Wasting a "beat" (or unit of time, whatever you care to call it... we usually put it in terms of musical tempo and beats, and I'd consider it to be a bit shorter than a second) in choreography can work to maintain the timing if you have good reasons for it and hide it well. In a real fight, it could get you killed.

Just to be clear- I'm not saying you need to be 100% real and follow a true martial art. This is fantasy, after all, and it is meant to entertain. I'm pointing out sources of ideas, and heck, why re-invent the wheel if you don't have to.

Another concept worth considering is distance... it's critical in sword fights and martial arts, and will also affect your choreography implementation. I'm going to pick on (and praise) the RvD videos again here. They show good sensibilities about distance through most of their filming, and I particularly like in RvD1 at 2:02, the step and retreat. It shows us as audience viewers that they're on the ball and reacting to each other appropriately. It also shows us from a choreography standpoint that they paid attention to this. And then, right after that, during 2:07-2:10, they lose this and Dorkman nonchalantly lets Ryan stay too close for too long. This should have immediately turned to grappling, not a full 3 seconds, and several swings later.. or otherwise maintained a better distance if they weren't going that route, even if that meant Dorkman retreating to regain his comfortable distance.

Generally a "proper" distance is the range at which you can strike your opponent by taking a single step (even a small one) or lunge. If you're close enough to just reach out and smack your opponent, it's very dangerous for both fighters to stay there for any length of time, and the fight can be very chaotic. And from a choreography standpoint, it'll be safer for your actors to maintain the right distance anyway.

Anyway, just throwing in my $0.02 again.

 

Cool, Zen I hear ya. I've mentioned on this thread a handful of times that "yummy" staged choreo is not always realistic. In fact, to me, true martial art doesn't show up much in movies, theatre, etc. If it did, it would look awfully boring at times.

My big pet peeve is when I see blades/weapons crossing out in the middle of the air, with no apparent target being reached for. With the exception to a tiny handful of "beat" attacks... this is just whacking weapons together, and I see that WAAAAAY too often in almost every SW fanfilm I've ever seen. That is simply because people are untrained.

Then again, it requires less control, since you can go nutso and no one will ever (should ever) get hit!

To the untrained, blade bashing is fast, furious, and looks much more "advanced" than a system of aiming for actual targets... but to me, it ceases to emulate the visual illusion of actual "combat". That's just me though. This also requires stellar footwork (that emulates a true martial artist), and naturally maintaining the distance/measure like a true martial artist.

I come from a fencing background, so I know how crucial distance is for "real-time" swordplay... and also for staged stuff. I still like doing all the back flips and acro stuff too though... fun.

 

I've been meaning to ask.. are there more in this series? If not, you should make more.
Oh, and your lecturing style is awesome. I don't know how to describe it.

-Vaportrail

 

If there?s enough demand? maybe. I?d made the initial one for Aaron when he was still planning Agents of the Force 2: Retribution. I?ve sort of lost interest in light saber fights since then? or more accurately I?m taking a break until some super-cool idea comes along.

They?re fun, though, like video blogs, so you never know. We did some knife-fight training this weekend that was exhausing fun... may try to get that down on tape.

 

I think as time goes on, the audience at large tends to get more savvy about this sort of thing, even if not consciously so. It can boil down to "that looks fake" vs "that looks cool" with people subconsciously picking up on such cues as the swords swinging for the person rather than the sword (or air), or improper distance or measure. I think it's best to play up to the audience than try to talk down to them, so to speak. So intelligent choreography certainly has a strong presence.

I started out in sport fencing too, before moving on to historical longsword. I find fencing fun, but longsword is really cool.

I'm not a choreographer, so feel free to treat everything I've said with a grain of salt, but I think having a fighting background gives you a good perspective to analyze what people do in their choreography, especially since half of learning how to fight comes from watching everyone else's mistakes.

As long as they're useful and/or entertaining, I say go for it. It's probably a useful starting point for some people.

 

Zen, hey it's cool and the gang! Personally, I think anyone with martial experience and love for drama could work on choreography.

Also, I think the forums/threads are great for healthy discussion. People need not "agree" or "disagree" with me all the time--I like to hear everyone's opinions and thoughts so long as they have SOME backing, which yours clearly do. What I get sick of are people who are naysayers and/or just come out to say something negative with no advice/thinking on how to SOLVE/FIX/WORK ON the problem! Which is why I try to justify something I say, instead of saying "that video was fake" or even "that movie is uber". Neither have a course for action.

Anyhow. I agree with you about choreography needing to look "real" because that is (naturally) the nature of drama whether it is in film, theatre, etc. The entire point of a movie (for example)... is to give the ILLUSION of reality. Not the illusion of "people pretending to do X or Y". It is an easy mistake for people to make.

As to Lazlo's (Covax's??) video, I have to disagree with Vapor... the video--although having some good points regarding hinting toward the weapon being a lever... the video takes far too much time to say much--so it could be easily, easily condensed, and some of the speaker's tone sounds a bit condescending and... "lecture-y" as Vapor mentions.

Vapor seems to LIKE the lecture-style... that's cool. I do not. So that just goes to show how opinions are different. Be advised--I am not "attacking" anyone. I like Lazlo/Covax and Vapor... But I'm always out to help/improve by offering thinking. Doesn't even mean people have to change a darn thing about how they do things...

Ok... so, I think footwork or some kind of "guard" stance would be good to show--doing this inside that small room probably doesn't help, but... I hear ya--sometimes it is hard to do a video in a larger space. Having a partner would help IMMENSELY, as staged combat... is usually done with 2 or more... rarely "Solo"...

Additionally, if the hands are crossing THROUGH the line of the target (which it appears is happening violently with the short stick)... one mistake from the staged combat partner = road nachos for him/her. That would be bad. Conversely, the other actor is in just as much in danger from those strikes as the other.

Some people say "well, it should be REAL, right?! If they get hit, then they're just... STUPID DUM-DUMS. They have to PARRY! Yeah." Ok, fine. I do not recommend that "style" (for staged combat), and I will certainly say that it has nothing to do with the art of film or theatre... which is, again, the ILLUSION of reality. Yes, if you really go for it, it will look real... since it is. And someone might "really" go to the hospital as often as you change underwear. This is NOT professional, nor safe in any way.

Striking through the target line (or line of attack) is an extremely dangerous maneuver unless you BOTH seriously know what you are doing. Even then, I don't know many people who need to "dodge" EVERY move (character or special concept aside). If you don't dodge a strike that is swinging through a target line--you will get hit. Unless you're using camera depth tricks... or you're not in range in the FIRST BLOODY PLACE... and then we're back to square one of the basics: distance/measure.

When I get back from C4, I think I'll finally have a chance to make some basic staged combat tutorials, covering a myriad of subjects, but all in short, separate, easy-to-"jump into" videos.

I hope no one is "mad" at me. My only intention is to HELP and to be helped on this thread. I have nothing to gain by "trying to make people suck" or "let's piss in the wind", etc. So... peace. Uh... unless we're doing staged combat ... then... WAR!

 

First off, yea I was/am Covax. Full name is Laszlo Kovacs, 'Covax' was just a cool spelling of the last name.

And yea, the vid could be condensed but I'm working under the assumption that folks would try to copy me live, I?m using the same tone and pacing I would if someone would be in front of me. As for condescending? well I am.

The tutorial is about wielding a light saber properly. At no point in the tutorial have I started talking about fight scene choreography, live sparring or even practice katas. Before I rant on I agree you?re allowed to give your safety caveats, and I agree with them in principal.

However!, and we?ve has similar discussion before, if I?m going to give weapons to people I want them to know what they?re doing. You should know how to do something right before you begin to soften it up for stage or screen. Do you need to know how to be a 10th Dan Karateka or Bujistu master? Gods no? but ideally I?ll like my actors to know what it feels like to make a proper ideal move. ?All things being equal, this is how you cut down an opponent.? *swish* A good choreographer then breaks that down, making logical blocks, parries, parries and counter-strikes while maintaining a level of safety for the actors. The easiest way to simulate peril is to recreate authentic peril; with increased filmmaking and martial skills you can deconstruct the sequence while maintaining intensity and safety.

For example if you?ve seen the Crimson Flame choreo videos between myself and Spiff each segment is filmed as one continuous sequence. 99% of the strikes are aimed with the purpose of being a kill shot. The practice sessions are to mitigate pauses and maintain a steady continuity of moves. Could we have gotten hurt of we fumbled? Unlikely, since the synchronicity should ? ideally ? keep your partner in mind if they make mistakes. If you hold a saber properly you?d be able to stop blows easier than if you?re stuck baseball-bat-swinging. And you know? on my sets people get bruised, sure. When I?m fighting I get intense but I pace myself to my opponent / colleague. I?m first responder-trained and have two kits standard when I?m around, so I can fix what I break. I?m not going to believe a performance form someone who doesn?t understand the fear of getting cut/hurt and the ability to push back that fear. I?m going to squeeze out that extra 2% of believability out of a fight.

If you?re satisfied with less? well enjoy your mediocrity.

Edit: I've been editing the fight scene from Instability tonight so if I come off as agressive... well grrrrr.

...

 

I don't see why I would be "satisfied" with "mediocrity". That seems pretty irrelevant... those who have seen my work can make their own decisions.

I don't know what you mean about "the vid could be condensed but I'm working under the assumption that folks would try to copy me live"... am I missing something? You don't want to condense the video because you think people will copy it?

I respect your answer regarding the choreo--as I said, everyone has their system--but what you're saying doesn't make sense to me. You say that each shot you're making is a "kill shot"... but you then mention that you couldn't get hurt if you made a mistake. I must be missing something here, either that or you and your staged combat folks are perfect and never ever make errors. That would be a great system and I need to learn it--especially if it works for 100% live stuff. Perfection would be... uh... perfect!

I disagree with your point-of-view regarding "I?m not going to believe a performance form someone who doesn?t understand the fear of getting cut/hurt and the ability to push back that fear." Besides--that's pretty much a loaded question... everyone has an innate fear of getting hit--but when you're well-trained you suppress that, relying on the training. But what I disagree with is that someone needs to train in a martial art to do some fun staged combat. Some good examples are all over the fan film area. Ryan and Michael didn't have any martial art experience as far as I know. Those are just two "well-known" examples. Some of my actors in BOP I had absolutely no training in "martial arts" prior to working with me. I didn't teach them "martial arts"--I taught them my staged combat system. None of it ever had to *BE* dangerous... but I think it looked as such to the audience. Maybe I'm wrong.

I now have a different concern to think about as well. I have a 12-year old actress in my current production, BOP II. Prior to joining us, she absolutely had NO training in any martial art, and certainly never picked up a "weapon" before. I have to take care of her. I cannot afford to get her whacked in the head by a polycarbonate tube. Her parents would be extremely disappointed, as would I.

Now, Dani doesn't actually have to do a TON of fighting... but I pretty much trained her for the staged combat in 15 minutes on the first day. She was ready to go by the next rehearsal.

This is not to say that more was needed--she understood the system quickly, and understood its relevance with safety and being convincing. This is not to say that she is now "magically" some uber martial artist. It isn't even to say that she understands how dynamic choreography can get... but prior to meeting up with us--she was EXTREMELY FEARFUL of the weaponry. Again, I convinced her it was safe by showing her/explaining the system in 15 minutes, and her fear took a backseat.

She's never been hurt. Uh, and neither have the main fighters--with the exception of sore muscles and bruised egos when they made errors...

Is THAT what you mean? Suppress the fear and get it ON?! If so... great. If not--well... enjoy spending hours and hours to get what I can get in 15 minutes from a 12-year old girl.

And again--I would rather share and learn from one another over making snide remarks. I am perfectly fine with constructive criticism--especially if someone actually addresses my system or something I've made and comments with some relevance to staged combat (or whatever the concern). Just saying I'm satisfied with "less"... really doesn't say very much! It would say more about you.

Grrr!!! hheheh peace! You know I just like to have healthy discussions.

 

What I meant is I am assuming ? hoping actually ? the viewer would follow the example. I could write down the lesson in bullet points but there?s a weird blanking in people as soon as they hold a stick ? even martial artists. By getting the muscles to understand the brain could be worried about other things.

I suppose I have to beef up my choreography lexicon? Ideally for the purposes of the narrative each shot is a kill shot and the responses are just in the nick of time to avoid calamity. When a choreographer makes a sequence he?ll present it as a single sequence. For stage and linear-shot fight scenes the actors have to repeat that sequence while maintaining their character. First time you practice anything you work on a percentage of the total speed and power and later on in increments ramp up the speed. Is there danger? Sure, but danger is mitigated with practice? ask any figure skater.

This is kind of a ?well, duh? bit but I think we?re both getting advice for development of good choreo crossed with advice for the performance.

Experience in a martial art helps, as we?ve agreed, but critical? No.

My point about ?fear? is for the sake of the characterization. The character wielding the weapon appreciates the idea that they?re holding a weapon and the fact that in order to use that weapon they have to risk being hurt themselves. If it?s a pro-active character they?ve somehow dealt with that fear (either positively or negatively depending on the need of the plot). That kind of thing is not something that everyday people understand, that?s something that even many martial artists understand. Hell, I?ll even argue stage actors are closer to understanding, having to face down stage fright.

Where possible ? and in my case it only takes 15 minuets as well ? I try to get my guys to appreciate fear and their own ability to surmount it. It may be only a 2% performance increase but I?ll grab what I can as my own skills dictate.

Hey, you've seen the wipe outs that skateboarders and rollerbladers... give those 12 years olds some credit.

Ultimately our styles and philosophers are different. There?s a part of me that would love to produce movies with the intensity of an extreme sport? but I?ll save that for the midlife crisis stage of my life.

If you?re in one of my action scenes prepare to get bruised? but the intensity will be matched to the performer, from kid to golden oldie. Spiff used to be as crazy as I was, but had the skills to back them up as you?ve seen. There?s no way I?d asked that level from Phi, but her action scene in UCF was still a workout. Stoyboy by isn?t a ?fighter? but an fine actor, so the knif