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ST The attack on Starkiller Base — how does it make sense?

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Dameron, Dec 28, 2015.

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  1. Dameron

    Dameron Jedi Master star 4

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    Apr 8, 2014
    Bad guys trigger their superweapon, destroy planets. Good guys see how and from where it was done, and that it can soon be done again. Big emergency. They'd like to have the whole NR fleet come down on it, but there's no time to figure that out.

    The Resistance wants to help, so they send out a small military force, much weaker then the NR fleet. Just a few heavy fighters. They're given the location of the base's weakness, but it seems highly implausible to me that anyone has any expectation this force is going to end the threat. Maybe it's a "Doolittle raid" meant to immediately show the First Order they haven't destroyed their enemies' will to fight. Maybe it's more a test of the base defenses. Aim for the big gun, but really work more on mapping surface guns, minefields, etc. for when the big ships arrive. I could accept that.

    But then it stops making sense. The "Doolittle raid" penetrates all the way to the base itself — meeting no patrols, no border guards, no escorts — and starts shooting at it before the First Order can scramble fighters. How? Why? We can argue the Order was prepping its defenses for the full New Republic counterstrike, but c'mon — you just blew up five planets! How can there possibly be any scenario where they hit you back and you're not expecting it? And after the Death Stars, shouldn't superweapon designers be making fighter defense a priority? Cloud City had more protection than this place; at least there they had traffic control!

    For a mission of this importance, I'm sure this is crack squadron with top-notch weapons, astromechs, leadership, experience, everything. But even so, what is wrong with the First Order that they let this pitiful little band reach their crown jewel unchallenged and destroy it? Part of it is that there's sabotage from within, but did they sabotage the air defenses too? Poe clearly means to destroy the base right now, this mission — he didn't just take advantage of confusion on the base, he was gunning for it.

    Even with the sabotage, even with top pilots, how could the Resistance win this titanic mismatch?

    I want this to make sense. Please explain it so it makes sense.
     
  2. Chewies_bandolier

    Chewies_bandolier Force Ghost star 4

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    May 5, 2002
  3. Zev.Love.X

    Zev.Love.X Jedi Knight star 2

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    Jan 13, 2015
    My advice is to not think about it too much. Have fun. It's not rocket science. Literally. Stuff is just gonna "happen".
     
  4. Strongbow

    Strongbow Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 6, 2014
    The shield was supposed to protect them. no ship going below light speed should have been able to get to the surface. Han's inside the shield at light speed trick was not expected.
     
  5. Dameron

    Dameron Jedi Master star 4

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    Apr 8, 2014

    That would be difficult, as my brain is where I feel fun.
     
  6. Berry Kenobi

    Berry Kenobi Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Dec 20, 2015
    I think that, to just make it simply, they put in Starkiller Base so they could have something dangerous to rescue Rey from.
     
    rdhight likes this.
  7. ShaneP

    ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Mar 26, 2001
    Because it does. Did you ever watch A New Hope? Do you know the phrase "winning against all odds?"

    That's what this is. It happens in movies.
     
  8. R.D.

    R.D. Jedi Master star 3

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    Nov 26, 2015
    The FO doesn't have the great manpower of the Empire and seemed to rely on it's shields for defence. Likewise, the Resistance will obviously optimize it's craft for hit and run attacks that ensure they strike before the enemy can properly mobilize against them.

    Remember, if the Resistance didn't have Solo and Rey's miracle flying, a turncoat like Finn to point out the weakness, and Poe doing an impossible turn through a hole...the FO would've pretty much won.
     
  9. Darth Doop

    Darth Doop Jedi Master star 4

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    Apr 24, 2014
    The base imploded on itself. The olcilater fired AT the planet.
     
  10. jedijax

    jedijax Force Ghost star 6

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    May 2, 2013
    Yes, the sun's power couldn't fire as planned due to the blown oscillator so it was the energy that caused the collapse.

    More strange was how Han, Chewie, and Finn just walked in. I supposed they took a tunnel that Finn, being the "janitor" knew about. Too bad they didn't show that trek under the tunnel.
     
  11. JabbatheHumanBeing

    JabbatheHumanBeing Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Jul 14, 2015
    It's an underdog vs. overdog story. That's all you need to know.
     
  12. ShaneP

    ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Mar 26, 2001
    Walking through a trash compactor bin? That would have been fun. They might have shot some stuff for the tunnel. Not sure.
     
  13. MS1

    MS1 Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 18, 2015
    They got through the front door that had minimal guards etc but don't forget Rey then unlock all the internal doors by removing that thing like she first salvaged on the crashed Star Destroyer.
     
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  14. TK327

    TK327 Force Ghost star 4

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    May 7, 2001
    That was very Obi Wan of her. :)
     
  15. Darth Gorsky

    Darth Gorsky Jedi Youngling

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    Dec 24, 2015
    It makes the kind of sense when writers say "hey, 90% of people won't ask any questions, just throw it all in there."
     
  16. xaxiomatic

    xaxiomatic Jedi Knight star 2

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    Dec 26, 2015
    What I hate even more is what this implies about the rebe... I mean resistance. They used to be interested more in galaxy destroying superweapons. Now they are just completely oblivious to the fact that the em... I mean First Order has one ready to go.

    It cheapens the reb... dammit i have to stop doing that I meant resistance. They took down both death stars Luke did a big part but was not solo in the first one. I salute the brave Bothans who died to stay on top of **** like this.
     
  17. Dameron

    Dameron Jedi Master star 4

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    Apr 8, 2014

    You make a good point. I'm sure in the coming years, the competence of the First Order will be debated in detail. From my OP, you can see I'm coming down on the side of "they sucked at their jobs." But it's true that someone had to be doing something right, for a long time, for their superweapon to come online without anyone knowing about it.

    I mean, Finn defects, and he brings vital information about Starkiller Base, where he used to work. Why didn't other defectors who worked there bring word of its existence years ago?

    At least someone in the First Order is doing their job. Or else, as you said, the resistance is no Rebellion.
     
  18. Rookhelm

    Rookhelm Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 22, 2014
    The original Death Star was not escorted by a single Star Destroyer. Let that sink in for a bit.
     
  19. Colm

    Colm Jedi Master star 2

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    May 19, 2005
    The First Order didn't expect someone crazy enough to drop out of lightspeed inside their shields. So they presumed that the whole of Starkiller Base secure and immune from infiltration.
     
  20. Bobatron

    Bobatron Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 3, 2012
    Well, the Resistance was getting reconnaissance reports from someone. They were informed about the gun being charged.
     
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  21. redinight

    redinight Jedi Grand Master star 1

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    Nov 15, 2001
    What's an over dog though? I don't need to explain or question why the movie was a complete waste to me? Just like it because Disney said to? No truth to power?

    That 3rd Death Star provided nothing to the story. It destroyed a system that didn't mean anything to the story, then it was uncermoniously destroyed... That is truly lame... The villains were weak.
     
  22. darthOB1

    darthOB1 Force Ghost star 5

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    Mar 22, 2000
    Bad guys are dumb. They monologue and don't think defensively because they usually are too arrogant in thinking they cannot be stopped. Nothing new here, you may not like it but that's Hollywood for ya
     
  23. JabbatheHumanBeing

    JabbatheHumanBeing Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Jul 14, 2015
    A certain segment of Star Wars fandom will never accept that story and themes trump lore. JJ decided to go for the "essence" of Star Wars, and part of that involves the thematic element of David (the Resistance) vs. Goliath (The First Order). So he fashioned the lore in such a way that this would occur. To serve the story. Story logic trumps lore logic.

    Of course, they could have gone in a different direction. But for a lot of people, what JJ did worked very well. He opted for what "feels" like Star Wars (hope against all odds, an almost naive optimism, etc), rather than recreating a piece of Star Wars history, as Lucas did with the prequels.

    You didn't like that, and are raging about it. Fine. That doesn't mean I can't respond to your rage with my own reasons for why I think TFA competes with the best films of the saga.
     
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  24. Binary_Sunset

    Binary_Sunset Force Ghost star 5

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    Oct 28, 2000

    Ha! Good point.
     
  25. redinight

    redinight Jedi Grand Master star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2001


    But, I've seen all that in ANH, and that movie is so much more satisfying. I feared the emperor without seeing him... I felt tension with the DS attack. I was introduced to all the characters already and their stories played out in the final movies, I didn't need a mucked up forced re-telling of their characters. The movie is a waste of time.
     
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