ST The attack on Starkiller Base — how does it make sense?

And the troopers can kick some serious butt now.

Have to say, I was a touch surprised at the damage troopers were taking in TFA. It was a bit graphic (for an SW film), but at least it was realistic.

 

At least they didn't burn holes into their bodies like SW. Remember that? I do. I loved it as a kid…"whoa did you see that? Awesome!"

 

Good thing for you Lucas made the SE's.

 

Trims…argh. I loved them old squibs.

 

I would agree there, the technical arguments about how the Starkiller base might work don't really matter to me as Starwars was never about that kind of thing but in the past it was at least tactically more realistic and the Empire more competent. This time around we see an entire star destroyer almost caught cold by one tie fighter and then very limited defence both in the air and on the ground for the starkiller base.

Personally I think if they were going to include the Starkiller base it should have been less of a "bigger badder deathstar" and more of a "deathstar on the cheap", not a massive but rather more of a spit and sawdust ingenious weapon that allowed the first order to punch above their weight. In that situation I think it being quite vulnerable to attack would make a lot more sense.

 

To be fair, the Star Destroyer crew isn't expecting an attack inside their shields immediately after take-off.....a fighter coming at the SD would be detected and fired upon long before it got that close.

That said, I still love Han's manuever in ESB, latching onto the SD and making them think he was cloaked.

 

Hans tactic iws I think more realistic since it was so unexpected and not aimed at attack, the Tie doesn't just blast the inside of the hanger it takes out the main weapon very easily and almost escapes the secondary weapon with no sign of any other fighters. It makes it look like Star Destroyers have about half a dozens lasers on them in one small block and little defence against fighters.

"two fighters against a star destroyer" doesn't look so unrealistic there.

 

Han flew past three at close quarters in ESB and still survived.

 

1) The movies have taught us that ships always exit hypserspace simultaneously, so if one survives then all survive, and with Poe "Best Pilot in the History of Both Piloting and History" as lead ship (or the Falcon could just be lead ship) and flying super maneuverable fighters they'd be guaranteed to survive.

2a) The risk is even more severe if the Falcon goes in first, since if the Falcon crashes and burns the problems are now twofold - i) the sneak attack has failed and the First Order knows they're coming and ii) the shields are still up.

2b) The Ties were scrambled before the bombing run. They were scrambled because it was detected the shield was down. So taking the shield down first actually alerted the bad guys, giving the air attack mission less time to work than if they'd just jumped in behind the shields in the first place.

 

Actually, they go ship by ship. You see this when the rebel fleet jumps to Endor in ROTJ, and back to the rebel base in TFA. Not to mention they are flying to normal coordinates in those scenes. We've never seen a ship attempt Han's maneuver.

FINN I can disable the shields. But I have to be there, on the planet--

HAN We'll get you there. LEIA Han, how?

HAN If I told you, you wouldn't like it.
----------------------------------------------------
FINN How are we getting in?

HAN Their shields have a fractional refresh rate. Keeps anything traveling slower than lightspeed from getting through. Finn is suddenly filled with dread.

FINN We're gonna make our landing approach at lightspeed?!

Chewie, thinking it's crazy too, says: HELL YES WE ARE!

Sorry, but Han and Chewie's dialogue makes it clear that this maneuver is not guaranteed.

I thought you said they'd be guaranteed to survive? Can't have it both ways.

 

Ships exit at the exact same coordinate all the time with no issues.

Apology accepted. And it's not about book-writing, it's about film-making.

Even if we do run to the book, it also doesn't matter whether it's guaranteed. They have no other choice but for someone to jump behind the shields. If the Falcon fails the X-wings have to jump behind the shields anyway, only they have to do it with the Falcon already having tipped the defenses off, making the job even more difficult.

Poe and the X-wings would be, since Poe is clearly shown to be the best pilot in the history of the galaxy and X-wing fighters are more maneuverable than the Falcon freighter.

It's the Falcon that's not guaranteed to survive.

 

Poe is one heck of a dogfighter, but how much experience does he have making insane hyperspace jumps? That's the kind of thing that Han does better than anybody. I'd also question whether or not an X-wing nav computer has the same kind of souped up to the max accuracy as the Falcon's highly modified smuggler's astrogation systems.

 

This is the first time we've seen a ship hyperspace through a shield into a planet's atmosphere, so you have no basis for comparison.

You act like you made your point, and then blather on about something as if it makes any difference. Interesting. Not to mention the fact that this is the script, and Han does make that statement. I'll take his word over yours about the danger of the maneuver.

*script*....and the line is spoken in the film, so it's canon.

Again, we've not seen an X-wing make the manuever, so you have no basis for your opinion.

And there's no guarantees.....period. Not to mention the fact that 4 SW films have demonstrated that Han is quite the pilot, and the MF is extremely maneuverable.

 

The Falcon is simply assumed to be the lead ship and better suited for it.

They did the same in ROTJ with the Falcon leading the X-wings in.

In theory, yes, Poe could make the maneuver with his Xwing, but given the X-wings are a one seater, is he going to deactivate the shield himself? Half of the Xwings likely would not make through the shield if they simply attempted to all penetrate it.

Besides, Han planned a ground assault all along (the bombs) and was prepared for it.

Falcon fits perfectly as Han +3 more disembarked. If the story demanded it like in ROTJ he could have landed a small squad on the planet too.

Poe is where he is because he's the blue leader, and he belongs with his squadron. I'm not even sure what the nitpick is here.

 

Does the idea of Starkliiller base as a weapon make sense at all? A large cannon inside of a dwarf planet which may or may not even rotate with it's orbit. It sucks away the power of its own sun to fire on other systems. What happens when the star and its gravity is gone? I don't believe it was in a nebula. It would simply float around space as a rogue object without any power source and no means to move across the galaxy. The Death Star was by far a much superior weapon in all aspects. How could the First Order with nowhere near the resources of the Empire have constructed something so much larger than the Death Star when it took years to build the first of the other kind? Plus the weapon's fire capability can only hit a specific portion of the galaxy, not enough to be a significant threat to the now expansive New Republic.

 

Actually, I would imagine SKB would be easier to build, because the main structure (the planet) is already there. You can use native materials and just hollow out the planet, rather than building an entire structure from scratch in space. Plus, it already has its own gravity and atmosphere.

And they can certainly save some of the stored solar energy to power SKB.... Especially if they used geothermal machinery.

I'm not sure where the first part of your post comes from, but a weapon that can destroy several planets in one shot could make short work of an "expensive Republic" pretty quickly.... or at least scare enough of them to keep them in line, much as the DS was intended to do.

 

DP

 

It can barely hit anything in the New Republic. Plus it may not even be able to rotate different directions, especially if without it's sun and gravity, it begins to float in all kinds of directions like a rogue planet. It'll be wobbling each and every way like Mars. There is no control over it. This thing probably doesn't have any rotation control like the Death Star did either. By the time it would rotate against another target, the Republic could've retaliated and destroyed it with large capital ships even without the Resistance. The entire weapon was poorly thought out by the creative team.

 

It destroyed 5 planets at the same time! That's better than both DSs combined.

And the lack of a sun's gravity actually makes it easier to move around.... Now SKB doesn't have to achieve escape velocity. And SKB is capable of moving under its own power.

 

Wasn't the one it drained, the only star in that system? Once it's gone with the gravity, it be sitting in the dark of space, nothing to power it, and wobbling around and around as a rogue planet like a bumbling beach ball. It just ruined any useful after firing twice unless there is some sort of other power source nearby.

 

As I said, SKB didn't have to use all its power in the blast.

And rogue planets do not "wobble" or "bumble" in space. Like anything else, It will travel in a straight line until acted upon by another force. This force can be from without (gravity), as well as within (SKB's engines).

 

That power source is going to drain eventually without a bunch of stars to feed it. Even as a rogue planet drifting on its own, it'll take eons to reach another one. Unless this planet has some sort of ability to power from star system to the other with lightspeed, which is interesting considering it's a planet, then I don't know how effective this was as a weapon.

 

You DO realize this is Star Wars, right?

 

The writers did a poor job conceptualizing this weapon. Another Death Star would've made more sense. In the rush to have something bigger than the OT, I think some things were overlooked.

 

Yes...please remind them that there are no sounds in space, so they don't repeat that mistake eight times in a row.