Lit The Aurebesh on the Wall

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Dr. Steve Brule, Dec 10, 2012.

  1. Dr. Steve Brule Jedi Grand Master

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    Sep 7, 2012
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    In rereading the latest issue of Dawn of the Jedi, something hit me that should have hit me earlier. Why is it that the Tythans and the Rakata both use Aurebesh?

    Looking it up on Wookieepedia, it looks like the pre-DOTJ conception was that Aurebesh came from the Rakatan alphabet. Which makes a bit of sense from DOTJ - but only a bit, since DOTJ #1 is clearly supposed to be the first contact between the Tythan polyglot culture and the Infinite Empire.

    If anything, it seems to me that the Tythans at least got introduced to Aurebesh by the Tho Yor or some sort of teacherbots inside them, since it doesn't make sense for all those species to know the same alphabet before. That just seems common sense to me. And if that is the case, then what's a lot more interesting is - wouldn't that mean the Rakata would have some sort of cultural descent from the Tho Yor or their creators, also? Since I don't see a species that advanced (as the TY) basing their alphabet on comparative primitives.

    I know the Essential Atlas implies the Rakata co-existed with the Celestials for a time, seeing as it was the latter decline that allowed the former to expand. So...more evidence not only that the Tho Yor are created by the Celestials (and therefore linked to Mortis) but also that the Rakata based their culture in at least some part from them? And more interesting...evidence that Aurebesh is some sort of "divine script" that originated with the SW version of the gods?

    Incidentally, Xesh and the Tythans seem to understand each other just fine, while the Rakatans and their droids from KOTOR definitely speak a different language...Although I guess there could have been a linguistic shift in the Infinite Empire in its last few centuries.
  2. Dawud786 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 28, 2006
    star 4
    I was actually wonder about this after that issue.
  3. Mechalich Force Ghost

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    Feb 2, 2010
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    It is also possible that one of the tribal groups picked up by the Tho Yor - most likely either the Humans or the Sith, had previously been in contact with the Rakata and disseminated the Aurebesh script across Tython after landing. The dates for that don't work out exactly - since the Tho Yor brought the colonists to Tython prior to the establishment of the Infinite Empire, but it is at least a possibility. Celestial meddling of some kind is more likely.

    On this note, it would probably be relevant to re-watch the Mortis episodes and look for any Aurebesh script on any structures there.
  4. jSarek VIP

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    Feb 18, 2005
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    When I wrote up the history of Aurebesh for "The Written Word," I thought, "this is the big script that creators will use no matter the timeframe; I'd better make sure its origins go all the way back to the dawn of the Republic to make sure I cover my bases."

    So, of course, less than three years later, they went and set a comic before the dawn of the Republic. And used Aurebesh. :p

    As much as I hate to rely on the "unreliable in-universe narrator" dodge, it may be what's called for here. Milanda Vorgan's writing on the early history of Aurebesh is based on "recent archaeological discoveries," presumably the same ones written about by Corellia Antilles and Gideon Na'al in their book Star Maps and Scripts: The Rakata Connection. When Vorgan writes, "Rakatan artifacts have been found bearing symbols that have clear ties to the Aurebesh and its related scripts, indicating that the writing system used in the Infinite Empire is the stem from which these varied alphabets branched," we're seeing what the best archaeological evidence in 38 ABY suggests, rather than the unvarnished truth.
  5. Ulicus Lit'ari

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    Jul 24, 2005
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    Man, why? Those are the best sorts of dodges. :p
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  6. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

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    May 10, 2004
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    hey hey, it still could be that the Rakata visited Tython before.. just none of them came back alive to tell the rest of their people! since the Tho Yor came to Tython and the current DotJ story is like 10000 years later or something like that... a lot happend, a lot is lost to history or forgotten! I am puzzled that the shamans who boarded the Tho Yor and settled Tython did not do more warfare during their early encounters with each other, or that they have not discovered lots of Force stuff yet they only seem to gain during DotJ, whereas they already have lots of other fears like creations of beasts and Forcegenetics etc. that are way more advanced. I bet there had been a lot more that happend and was known in the past until Forcestorms of Tython set them back with a dark age and rediscovery. so they probably had Rakatan contact before but defeated them.. but nobody remembers due to the information loss in a dark age.
    Last edited by CeiranHarmony, Dec 11, 2012
  7. GrandAdmiralJello Emperor: Community & Lit

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    @Ris_jSarek There's also the idea of visual media as foggy windows -- who says comics don't have unreliability issues either? What we see as Aurebesh doesn't have to be Aurebesh, it's just inaccurately relayed to us. I know this issue came up in the Republic comics where Palpatine looked older than he should in particular issue or something, and the explanation we went with was that the person telling the story was just visualizing the most distinctive version of Palpatine at that point -- which was AOTC Palpatine.
    Ulicus likes this.
  8. Adrian the Cool Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
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    I too wondered about this just after I saw the symbols. But what bothers me more is the language: Galactic Basic Standard was created in 14,000 BBY, before it Old Galactic Standard has been in use by the Republic.

    The word balloons in DOTJ are written in Basic, too, despite the fact it didn't exist back then. First I thought "Basic" was just "English" in this case and in-universe the characters were using another language which has been translated into English for the reader. But how are the Je'daii and Xesh able to understand each other from the moment on they've first met? The native tongue of the Tython system's inhabitants is Tythonese, but Xesh and the Rakata must have been talking Rakatan. I see no way how Xesh could have learned Tythonese or the Je'daii Rakatan, because this situation was the first contact. At this time there was no galactic lingua franca, too.

    Edit: The Tho Yor have visited Humans on Dathomir. Xesh was from Dathomir, too, which I assume because of the marks on his forehead. Maybe the Dathomiri language survived ten millenia in the Tython system and was teached in schools. Xesh could have talked in Dathomiri to the Tythons.
    Last edited by Adrian the Cool, Dec 18, 2012
  9. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    It's not just the Tythans and Rakata... the natives on Tatooine speak the same language too.
  10. Dr. Steve Brule Jedi Grand Master

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    Sep 7, 2012
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    Looking Old Basic up on Wookieepedia, it's a bit odd that it's based on a mishmash of Bothan, Durese, and early Human. Partly because it seems like an assumption there was only one early human language, and also because (and admittedly this is only going from the KOTOR games) Durese sounds nothing at all like modern Basic. Although I assume it was chosen as a Basic precursor due to the Duros' status as long-term spacers.

    However I think it is worth noting that the Wook page states that Arden Lyn spoke Old Standard. I don't know if that's just an assumption some editor made, or if it comes from The Emperor's Pawns, but if it is canonical, then it does seem that there was some degree of mutual understanding between old and modern Basic, as she doesn't seem to have had a problem adjusting when she came to the present...

    Incidentally, one curious thing this brings up, we know that the Corellian system was controlled by the Infinite Empire, and yet that doesn't seem to have influenced the language development of early Corellia. Unless the Olys Corellisi-speakers arrived on Corellia sometime after the Infinite Empire left? Crazy theory time: we know the Duros and the Corellians both reverse-engineered the hyperdrive. Maybe the 'Corellian proper' linguistic group developed it...while living on another planet, and only later migrated to Corellia en masse and made the planet their own, assimilating the post-Rakatan Human culture there? If they did so with the help of the Duros, perhaps Olys Corellisi itself was the 'ancient human' language that merged with Duros (and Bothese) to help create early Basic?

    By marks on his forehead do you mean the 'xesh' symbol? Because that's his Rakatan slave marking. The other Force Hounds all have them also.

    I do find it odd that Shae Koda and the other apparently-Dathomiri-descended Tythans have forehead markings...has any other Dathomiri in the EU been shown to have those symbols? Because I honestly can't remember them from anywhere.
  11. Ulicus Lit'ari

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    Whenever I see "Tho Yor" I feel like it's the beginning of a rant in Judoon. THO YO BO BO RO KO MO SO DOH DOH ... MAH HO.

    Uh. Just so you know.
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  12. Jeff_Ferguson Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2006
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    Problems arise from Xesh being named Xesh, and Daegen Lok saying "Of course! Your name is written on your face."
  13. GrandAdmiralJello Emperor: Community & Lit

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    No problem at all. Read poetry in translation: a lot of times, English translators will "convert" puns to English even if it means using different words in order to prefer authorial intent over literal substance.

    So the use of an Aurebush letter is just trAndmatef for our benefit.


    Misa ab iPhono meo.
  14. JoinTheSchwarz Comms Admin & Community Manager

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    I think the OP has the best solution. Are there any issues with the Rakata having adopted the aurabesh from whoever built the Tho Yor, Celestials or not?
  15. Adrian the Cool Jedi Master

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    Sep 3, 2012
    star 3
    A possible answer for my own question came to my mind: The Force did it.
    In KOTOR, Revan was able to understand the Rakata because he has used the Force to draw the Rakatan language from their minds and implanted Basic from his brain into the Rakata's heads. Maybe Xesh did it too and got Tythonese from the Je'daii by this way? Also the Rakata got the ability to speak Tatooinian/Kumumgah by drawing the language from the Kumumgah's minds.