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The 'Average Joe' Draft Trial Version (EF was taken to trial and won ... the draft)

Discussion in 'Archive: Census and Games' started by The_Chim, Dec 20, 2007.

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  1. The_Chim

    The_Chim Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 16, 2001
    No worries Yak. I'm here to judge.

    I'm not gonna lie, I know nothing about Ozy really. I mean I do, from what BaSSiL and everyone have gone on about but through all that, but it is so very little. Despite all that I don't see anything Ozy will be able to do to hurt Goemon here. Really, does he have some sort of weapon? II haven't seen anything telling me other wise and all I see is hand to hand combat references. Sword > fisticuffs, really. They are both fast and good on their feet but I just don't see Goemon getting beat here. Call me crazy, and I know some of you will but, I don't.

    Winner: Goemon.

    I'm not sure, did Yak vote for Goemon or was that just to get BaSSiL to wake up?
     
  2. Hammurabi

    Hammurabi Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 14, 2007
    You guys both need to read Watchmen. All of you do.
     
  3. Zizz

    Zizz Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2005
    What about me?
     
  4. Hammurabi

    Hammurabi Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 14, 2007
    If you haven't, I would highly recommend it.
     
  5. Zizz

    Zizz Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2005
    I think I'll pass. Thanks though.
     
  6. BartSimpson-SithLord

    BartSimpson-SithLord Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 24, 2002
    But it didn't "wake me up". I was heading to bed when matches were posted, and was in class/without the time to think my argument through when Yak judged. Nothing "waking me up" about it. It was only a little over 12 hours and he was already judging on what both parties have admitted was a close match.

    And if you are going to place the match in locations, especially a run down location like the Narrows that has many improvisational weapons, I'd actually like it to be taken into account. But, whatever. I guess locations are just for show.
     
  7. Hammurabi

    Hammurabi Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 14, 2007
    It is a close match. But I don't like seeing it come down to "well, I don't really know Ozymandias that well, but Goemon has a sword".
     
  8. The_Chim

    The_Chim Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 16, 2001
    Well what does he have then Hammurabi?

    Sorry you didn't like the 'wake up' comment, it was a figure of speech. I agreed that Yak shouldn't have judged so soon after posting, and I don't even think he did.

    Make shift weapons, like what? A bum? A flaming stick? Some rocks? What? What there is a better weapon than that sword?
     
  9. BartSimpson-SithLord

    BartSimpson-SithLord Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 24, 2002
    Nothing is a better weapon than that sword. But, when applied in ingenious ways, even a pebble can defeat a tank.
     
  10. The_Chim

    The_Chim Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 16, 2001
    Well those are my ideas and none of them make a difference in this match. If Goemon can slice bullets in half I am doubting a genius throwing a pebble or doing much of anything with the junk in the Narrows is going to make a difference.

    Maybe Yak thinks differently?
     
  11. MandaloreYak

    MandaloreYak Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2004
    Yak would like to know what the hell the narrows are
     
  12. BartSimpson-SithLord

    BartSimpson-SithLord Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 24, 2002
    The run down, even seedier than normal, area of Gotham that Arkham calls home in the "Begins" series.
     
  13. The_Chim

    The_Chim Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 16, 2001
    Batman Begins slums.
     
  14. MandaloreYak

    MandaloreYak Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2004
    Well, this is a toughie. Clearly Goemon has superhuman abilities, and while Ozymandias is said to be "peak human," he also seems to have superhuman abilities. Neither of them are really familiar with the narrows, but I'd say it'd work to Ozy's advantage there.

    Nonetheless, Goemon is still quicker than Ozy seems to be, and moves faster as well, I'd say. If Ozy was prepped or something, it'd be different but nothing he can use would provide a defense against Goemon's ridiculous sword, and I don't think he'd get anywhere useful before Goemon caught him. And I think he'd probably just attack head-on anyway since he's such a great fighter, but I think either way it's Goemon.

    I could easily be wrong. I really hope it doesn't come down to this match as a deciding factor.
     
  15. The_Chim

    The_Chim Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 16, 2001
    I think that this one will remain on the table. I know I'm not convinced on either side. I really want to just vote to negate that match altogether, unless it comes down to needing it of course. Eh, And until then...




    CHAMPIONSHIP MATCH

    [hl=black]Hey! Listen![/hl] (1) vs. [hl=black]Aperture Science Team Designed For Baking You......A Cake[/hl]


    [hr]

    For the next number...two.

    [hl=black]Tim Drake (Robin) (Prepared)[/hl] vs. [hl=black]The Joker (Batman) (Prepared)[/hl]

    Location: The Village (Apocalypto)
     
  16. EmpireForever

    EmpireForever Jedi Grand Master star 8

    Registered:
    Mar 15, 2004
    Haha. You totally called it, Bart.
     
  17. Hammurabi

    Hammurabi Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 14, 2007
    Come on, Chim. He won't find anything necessarily 'better' than Goemon's sword, but I imagine there's plenty of knives and guns to be found in the Narrows. Failing that, an iron bar would work fine. Anything metal, really. I mean, do you imagine there's nothing better than wood and rocks in the narrows? I mean, a sewer cap could work beautifully. Going further with the improvisational combat angle, I imagine Ozymandias wouldn't have to work that hard to find something flammable. And Goemon can't deflect fire, at least not to my knowledge.

    Dammit, where are those scans? I'm trying to find them online. Here's a couple:
    [image=http://wtw.lowtion.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/watchmen-05-14.jpg] [image=http://wtw.lowtion.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/watchmen-05-15.jpg]
    We get some nice deflection and decent smackdown, but this isn't even Ozzy at his best. I wish I could find images of him taking down Rorshach and Nite Owl.

    And here you're making a key error with regards to Ozymandias. He is a superb fighter, you're right, but it's totally not his style to directly engage his foe. Ozymandias's biggest weapon is his brain. If you don't understand that, you don't understand the first thing about Ozymandias. He doesn't just move faster than everyone else; he thinks faster than everyone else. He's not going to just charge Goemon. He's going to play some sort of cat-and-mouse game with Goemon. The Narrows are big enough to accommodate that. And when it becomes a protracted series of skirmishes, Ozymandias will begin to gain the advantage as he learns more about his foe and his environment, meanwhile building traps and adding makeshift weapons to his arsenal. And as Ozymandias gradually assumes the role of the cat, things will look increasingly bleak for Goemon.



    But looking ahead to the next match, it looks like we're in for a fun one.
     
  18. EmpireForever

    EmpireForever Jedi Grand Master star 8

    Registered:
    Mar 15, 2004
    Ohhohohomy God. He wasn't expecting that? How not? How was he not expecting the guy with the gun who had just shot that chick not to fire at him?


    He will not have time to find something flammable. That's utter bunk. Metal? It will be rent in twain. He has no time to make it a cat and mouse game. Goemon is down his throat the second the match starts, and he doesn't get off of him until it's over.
     
  19. Hammurabi

    Hammurabi Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 14, 2007
    Well, you see, one panel previous the gun was concealed and Ozy was having an everyday conversation with that girl. So Ozy was expecting it by the time it happened.

    (However, to be fair, at this point in the story Ozymandias had reason to believe an assassination attempt would be made on him at one point in time.)



    This, of course, is considering they start within sight of each other. Which they don't necessarily do, though I suppose that's something we should figure out sometime on our trial run. Considering this is finals, no day but today. So: where do they start? If they start far enough apart (which is how I imagined it, and really how we've been treating it), Goemon first has to locate Ozymandias. If they start close, then Goemon's first big challenge will be applying his steel to Ozzy's flesh. Remember, the sword also bears distinct disadvantages: Goemon really has only one weapon with which he can strike Ozzy, whereas Ozzy has four, and a great deal more flexibility.
     
  20. EmpireForever

    EmpireForever Jedi Grand Master star 8

    Registered:
    Mar 15, 2004
    Goemon is also skilled without it. He's not limited to it, but I'm done with all of that. And of course they start off in sight of each other. There's a location, but they're not on completely opposite ends of the field.


    Oh, and I had hoped I could find this again:

    [image=http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/544/robin85p08do3.jpg]
    [image=http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/6129/robin85p09un9.jpg]
    [image=http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/9492/robin85p10ac3.jpg]
    [image=http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/2610/robin85p12ic4.jpg]
    [image=http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/7928/robin85p17ip6.jpg]
    [image=http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/7003/robin85p18rp1.jpg]
     
  21. The_Chim

    The_Chim Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 16, 2001
    Come on, Chim. He won't find anything necessarily 'better' than Goemon's sword, but I imagine there's plenty of knives and guns to be found in the Narrows. Failing that, an iron bar would work fine. Anything metal, really. I mean, do you imagine there's nothing better than wood and rocks in the narrows? I mean, a sewer cap could work beautifully. Going further with the improvisational combat angle, I imagine Ozymandias wouldn't have to work that hard to find something flammable. And Goemon can't deflect fire, at least not to my knowledge.

    So wait, what are bullets made of? Wood? Because he slices those in half with ease but a simple iron bar or a knife would do the trick? Pffft, think. Then Ozy would have enough time to scour the Narrows and find a gun, that Goemon would be able to block the bullets of anyway, but it would work?
     
  22. BartSimpson-SithLord

    BartSimpson-SithLord Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 24, 2002
    Anyway, I don't really see how this is an issue here. Joker, not really looking for any hero > Tim not expecting to run into a psycho. And that was fairly recently. Now, who does prep benefit more? Tim knows the Joker and the Joker knows Tim enough that it'll be fairly even. However, Tim is NOT Batman when it comes to fighting and the Joker has been shown to be surprisingly resilient when even fighting Batman and Nightwing. Robin can't beat Batgirl, who snuck up on Joker and was then defeated by him.

    Joker is better than the kids. Especially when he knows they're coming.
     
  23. Hammurabi

    Hammurabi Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 14, 2007
    Well, I think we established in the Rambo vs Goemon match that Goemon loses when somebody gets the jump on him with a gun.

    And I feel like I'm arguing too hard for Ozymandias here. They're both top-notch guys, and I think it really is a pretty even match. I just don't like Ozzy being dismissed like that, but I'm willing (especially after the extended debate we've had) to let Goemon have this one.

    I just wish I had scans of his Rorschach/Nite Owl takedown.



    With regards to the next match, I'm favoring Joker at this point. But if either of you guys want to get out more argument, go right ahead.
     
  24. MandaloreYak

    MandaloreYak Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2004
    Much as I hate to say it, I'm also favoring Joker here.
    And I'll be happy (well, not happy but willing) to look at that first match again if it comes down to it, which I hope it doesnt.
     
  25. The_Chim

    The_Chim Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 16, 2001
    No actually Goemon won that match Hamm and YOU even voted for him so I don't see how he loses when someone 'gets the jump on him with a gun'. Care to explain? Besides it was a completely different story. Rambo was prepped and oozing with weaponry. You are arguing Ozy would be able to find a gun somewhere there, not even a good one at that, and be able to take him down. Really? If you voted Goemon when he was facing a prepped arsenal why would you vote against him here versus an unarmed genius?

    Yeah that last match is to remain tabled until the end of the round if it turns out it actually matters. I hope it doesn't but we will just have to see.
     
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