Saga The Balance of The Force

What is the balance of The Force?

I've been piecing together little bits of info and clues about the prophecy of the Chosen One, and his destiny to bring balance to The Force. In reading about the history of the Je'daii (is that stuff even canon?) you find that at the very earliest root of the Jedi philosophy is the idea of adhering to neither the dark side nor the light side too much. The idea is that there's always darkness in light, and light in darkness, so to have too much of one without the other is a lack of balance.

Also, in the Clone Wars CG animated show (which is canon) there's an episode that deals with embodiments of the force in the form of a father and his light side and dark side offspring. Everything is in balance until the dark side Son starts going off the deep end. But before Son went crazy with the dark side it was necessary to have him around to maintain balance.

So there seems to be this idea in Star Wars that you should always have light and dark sides, and that having them both is not a bad thing. But then you have philosophy from Yoda (in ESB) where he explicitly states that once you start falling into the dark side you can never come back. That seems like a bit of an extreme departure from the balance philosophy.

So what's the core philosophy here? I'm confused. Are the Jedi meant to eradicate the Sith and repel the dark side? Or are they meant to live in harmony with dark side wielders? Is wielding the dark side not necessarily a bad thing as in Masters like Mace Windu who skirts the edge of it during battle? Or is it never to be touched because you will fall into its seduction before you realize that you're being corrupted?

And then there's the question of the Chosen One: When Anakin chucks Sidious down the reactor pit and restores peace to the galaxy he effectively destroys the Sith by killing Sidious and absorbing enough dark side lightning to destroy himself and thus fulfilling his destiny to bring balance to The Force. But is he bringing balance by completely wiping out the dark side? Or are the simply Sith an extreme example of the dark side and when Anakin destroys Sidious he's restoring the dark side to its true and more benign nature?

One of the things that I think is very present in even just the original trilogy is that Luke represents a shift in the Jedi philosophy. Yoda and Obi-Wan don't for a minute believe that Anakin can be redeemed and try to convince Luke that the only way to save the galaxy is to finish the jobs that Yoda and Kenobi started by destroying Vader and the Emperor. Luke doesn't exactly agree with their point of view however. He thinks there's still good in Vader and he proves it when he helps to redeem him. So, are the Jedi in the time of Phantom Menace too weighted toward the light side? Has Yoda in that era lost all concept of balance with the dark side? He's definitely a much different and more humbled person after all of his years of exile on Dagobah. The two Jedi that I think are the closest in temperament and philosophy in the 6 Star Wars films are Qui-Gon and Luke, and they both represent to me a more healthy balance between light and dark. They seem to have a deeper relationship with The Force because they're not as dogmatic as others, both having fundamental beliefs that differ from Yoda's, and essentially the Jedi council as a whole.

The lack of balance with the dark side within the Jedi in the time of the Galactic Republic could explain their diminishing ability to utilize The Force in order to root out the Phantom Menace. Luke's brush with darkness and Anakin's complete immersion in it could be the element that the Jedi needed to shift their core philosophies and bring balance back to The Force.

Thoughts? Am I way off base here or has it been broken down like this before?

 

Those questions are good ones - they've been raised before - but it's still not clear what the answer is, even if you go with what Lucas says in interviews. Sometimes he says of dark and light "they both need to be there" sometimes that destroying the Sith was "getting rid of evil in the universe".

That said - one consistent thing is the idea that the Sith unbalanced the Force.

 

I guess my take on the 6 films would be that because in episodes 1-3 the Jedi are shown to be, for lack of better terminology, losing it, both they and Sith have unbalanced The Force. Qui-Gon, Luke and Anakin/Vader re-balance it by showing that A) the Sith merely represent an extreme version of the dark side, B) the Jedi in the time of the Galactic Republic were the other side of that coin, an extreme and dogmatic version of the light side and C) because of those two things the Chosen One's destiny is to sort of hit a giant reset button on the force. Anakin wiped out both the Jedi and the Sith over the course of two decades, giving the light and dark sides a fresh start and showing that a person can indeed come back from the dark side.

 

That's certainly been a common theory - might not fit with Lucas's ideas though - which focused on the destruction of the Sith rather than the Jedi as the cause of the "restored balance".

Arawn_Fenn is probably the forum specialist on Lucas quotes about the Balance.

 

gl basically says there is always good and evil and we all have the potential to do either. no one really knows exactly what the prophecy means. the jedi don't and neither do the sith. it pretty much means destroy the sith. gl says vader does in fact bring balance in rotj then he redeems himself and kills sidious thus destroying the sith.

my feeling is that the light and dark are always there but the sith doing so much evil tips the scales way too much in the bad direction. once sith pop up the balance tips too far and they must be destroyed because their evil is so much worse than everyday good and bad.

 

In Darth Plagueis, the first "tipping of the balance" occurred about 100 or so years before A New Hope - and was tipped further by him and Palpatine.

 

the jedi and others are like regular people who may do some good and some bad but the sith are like hitler... pure evil that must be stopped.

 

I wonder where the Nightsisters fall on that scale?

 

I was actually thinking about the Nightsisters too. They almost seem like an example of benign dark side wielders.

 

I am sure Lucas thought it would sound too cheap to say the Chosen One is the one who would save the world, or would save the day, so he came up with this "bringing balance to the Force" crap

 

That makes sense to me for sure. But I do feel like the Jedi in episodes 1-3 have been so entrenched as protectors of the Republic without meaningful opposition that they may have lost a deeper connection to The Force. Qui-Gon represents what they've lost. When Yoda is exiled on Dagobah there's a character arc going on there that shows a growth from who he was in episodes 1-3.

 

According to Book of Sith, they revere a Winged Goddess and a Fanged God - which are suspiciously like the Daughter and the Son.

Maybe they're TCW's "mixed" Force users - wielding both light and dark at their own discretion.

Still, Talzin is a bit on the malevolent side.

 

Yeah the idea may be that whichever way you cut it, the dark side is not to be wielded lightly (no pun intended) because it's quicker, easier and more seductive. Talzin is definitely not helping the galaxy by supplying the Sith with more and deadlier apprentices.

 

have you seen the tcw yoda arc yet? there are some spoilers.

 

No, I'm in Season 5 right now. Eagerly awaiting those final episodes. Actually I should probably wait until I watch them before I start making grand philosophical proclamations lol.

 

it's really good and has some great yoda/force content.

the other thing you were correct about is the jedi. qui-gon prefers to sense the living force as opposed to the unifiying force.the very first lines in ep 1 talk about this.

OBI-WAN
I have a bad feeling about this.

QUI-GON
I don't sense anything.

OBI-WAN
It's not about the mission, Master,
it's somethging...elsewhere...elusive.

QUI-GON
Don't center on your anxiety, Obi-
Wan. Keep your concentration here
and now where it belongs.

OBI-WAN
Master Yoda says I should be mindful
of the future...

QUI-GON
...but not at the expense of the
moment. Be mindful of the living
Force, my young Padawan.

this is the crux of what's going on in the pt.

 

if you notice yoda teaches the opposite way in the ot than he did in the pt. because paying attention to the living force is the most important.
qui-gon taught them that.

Living Force - Wookieepedia, the Star Wars Wiki

Unifying Force - Wookieepedia, the Star Wars Wiki

also in the yoda arc "cosmic force" is mentioned.

 

Fascinating. Are there examples of dialogue from The Empire Strikes Back that shows the shift in Yoda's teaching?

 

Oh yes, I see. "The Living Force was thought to be present in most living beings, surrounding and penetrating them, thus making all living things connected by it."

Very much like Yoda's words to Luke on Dagobah. Also Kenobi's on Tatooine.

Basically Luke benefitted from a philosophy that Anakin never had a lot of access to because Qui-Gon died so early in his training.

 

YODA: Ready, are you? What know you of ready? For eight hundred years
have I trained Jedi. My own counsel will I keep on who is to be
trained! A Jedi must have the deepest commitment, the most serious
mind. (to the invisible Ben, indicating Luke) This one a long time
have I watched. Never his mind on where he was. Hmm? What he was
doing. Hmph. Adventure. Heh! Excitement. Heh! A Jedi craves not these
things. (turning to Luke) You are reckless!

YODA: Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hm?
Mmmm.

Luke shakes his head.

YODA: And well you should not. For my ally in the Force. And a
powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. It's energy
surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we...(Yoda pinches
Luke's shoulder)...not this crude matter. (a sweeping gesture) You must
feel the Force around you. (gesturing) Here, between you...me...the
tree...the rock...everywhere! Yes, even between this land and that
ship!

the important parts are about being in the "here and now". to feel what's going on around you. when luke has his visions of the future yoda tells him not to go. not to jump towards the future but stay in the present and concentrate. the pt jedi spent most of their time trying to see the future. it was clouded by the dark side and "always in motion the future is".

it's actually a great life philosophy. because if you always worry about the future you aren't living life to the fullest.

 

I am a manifestation of the Force, a Force that consists of two parts. Living beings generate the Living Force, which in turn powers the wellspring that is the Cosmic Force.

All energy from the Living Force, from all things that have ever lived, feeds into the Cosmic Force, binding everything and communicating to us through the midichlorians.

All that surrounds us is the foundation of life, the birthplace of what your science calls midichlorians, the foundation of what connects the Living Force and the Cosmic Force. When a living thing dies, all is removed. Life passes from the Living Force into the Cosmic Force and becomes one with it. One powers the other. One is renewed by the other. - Qui-Gon Jinn

 

He says something similar to Anakin though:

After a time, Yoda's eyes had slowly opened and the deep furrows on his ancient brow had deepened further. "Premonitions... premonitions... deep questions they are. Sense the future, once all Jedi could; now few alone have this skill. Visions... gifts from the Force, and curses. Signposts and snares. These visions of yours..."
"They are of pain," Anakin had said. "Of suffering." He had barely been able to make himself add: "And death."
"In these troubled times, no surprise this is. Yourself you see, or someone you know?"
Anakin had not trusted himself to answer.
"Someone close to you?" Yoda had prompted gently.
"Yes," Anakin had replied, eyes turned away from Yoda's too-wise stare. Let him think he was talking about Obi-Wan. It was close enough.
Yoda's voice was still gentle, and understanding. "The fear of loss is a path to the dark side, young one."
"I won't let my visions come true, Master. I won't."
"Rejoice for those who transform into the Force. Mourn them not. Miss them not."
"Then why do we fight at all, Master? Why save anybody?"
"Speaking of anybody, we are not," Yoda had said sternly "Speaking of you, and your vision, and your fear, we are. The shadow of greed, attachment is. What you fear to lose, train yourself to release. Let go of fear, and loss cannot harm you."

 

he tells anakin that people die and to miss them not. don't worry about your future visions.

anakin had visions of his mother. he went and bad things happened.

anakin saw his wife die. he ended up causing it.

luke saw his friends in danger. he went and fell into vader's trap.

vader did it on purpose because he knew what would happen. luke would show up just like he/vader did.

yoda says don't it's too dangerous and he's right.

 

Which may indicate that Yoda's "worldview" is the same in both the PT and the OT.

 

yoda and the pt jedi still missed out on "the moment" and ended up losing everything. it quickly became apparent that the living force and qui-gon's views were a lot more important than they thought. shifting more to the living force instead of the unifying force is also key in becoming one with the force.

"master yoda says i should be mindful of the future."

"not at the expense of the moment".

qui-gon's views were considered radical by the council and one of the reasons he wasn't on it. if they had listened to him they might have had a chance.