The Banning Of Ternian

When Ternian was originally banned, I was against the banning because there was not concrete reason. I am all for banning people for a variety or reasons, so long as there is a valid reason.

I must agree with Dan, however. His constant...well, if not trolling, psuedo-trolling then instead of confronting, head on the Administration and going through proper channels (yes, it can work, so don't get on your cynical high horse and shout that the system is a train wreck. It may be fundamentally flawed in certain capacities, but aspects do still work) - all of that points that he does not want to post here anymore. He wants to argue his case more than post, wants to promote negative stereotypes of JCers, support people who think the JC is all "ghey" and drama-ridden when he himself is one of the biggest drama monkeys (albiet it a closet one) around.

I do not think unbanning him, until he has come to terms with his blatant and repeated abuse of protocol and the JC rules, is in order. I say this as someone who, until a few months ago, was gung-ho to unban him for what was really one of the single worst bannings given that I saw.

 

I've given this situation a little thought, and I wanted to make a small suggestion. While I do not condone the trolling with the socks ( however amusing it might have been ) I think that what really is at issue here is the orginal banning. As Ternian is a mod of another fansite, and before his banning was a respected poster here, is there not some sort of override, or "professional courtesy" the admins could extend to him, as a mod of a fellow fansite. Not only would this undo what many perceive to be a major injustice, but it would also be a first step in the right direction to a better relationship with EpX, which shares many highly respected users with the JC.

We're all Star Wars fans, and this useless pointing fingers about socks, and hacked threads, bad analogies, and "drama" and all that is pointless in the big picture, not to mention, after 2005, totally moot.

Vertical, I know you are a fair person. I also know you to really truly care about the JC, how it is run, how the users feel about it, and how it is perceived by the rest of fandom. I think now is a prime opportunity to refute those arguments one can find at some of the other fansites about the JC Administration being more concerned with their hold on their Ivory Tower than in running a truly fan-friendly site. ( I do not say I subscribe to this train of thought, but it does exist out there, right or wrong ) Don't let this issue, and others like it become the legacy of the JC.

 

I'm just wondering why the runaround keeps on, keepin' on.

The fact of the matter is that Ternian was banned because DarthPsychotic had been cracking into the JC numerous times, namely the mod-squad. Scott got his panties in a bunch, needed to make an example, and since Ternian was somewhat of a well-respected person around here, who also happened to have interacted with DP at times; he was banned for "failing to reveal the hacker".

Everyone knows it's DP. Jesus...DarthPsychotic.

I'll say it again. DARTH PSYCHOTIC.

I fail to see the complicated matters here...

All these rules. All this policy, all for what? A silly message board??? Please...

Is this really about Ternian and his "socks"?? Or some inconsequential Mod-Squad threads that may have given the 14 year olds a little something to be excited about, kinda like X-mas??

Or is it really about sticking to the guns that have been drilled into your head since you signed your life away to this place??

Rules, rules, rules.

Remember to read the TOS. That's the ongoing motto of this place, I swear. People spend more time worrying about rules and policy, and forget why the bloody hell they even came here in the first place.

Peace

Crim

//returns to ban-land

 

JediGaladriel,

If an innocent man was accused of stealing and sent to jail, only to escape and be proved innocent, should he serve the rest of his sentence for escaping?

Your original analogy's context is wrong.

Dan,

I think you are under the influence of the Sith. Many statements you made are false and incorrect. It appears you have little idea about the events surrounding my bannings. A shame that you are easily influenced...

Lord Bane,

Please don't speak on my behalf - especially when you speak utter manure like this. And if you are going to lie, please be more inventive than that. This type of response is typical of the bad stereotypes the JC has EARNED.

As for trolling, it appears that some people have NO idea what trolling is. Members here wield this term abround VERY loosely.

Yes, I posted and participated in FF activities.

Yes, under the name QueenDorme, I created a Dorme Forever Thread, EpIII Arts thread and other threads for the PSA and posted in the Royal Handmaidens Thread.

Yes, I participated in some discussions about ridiculous AC things.?!

Oh, and to note, I have been banned for nearly a year now. I really do not think the 'proper channels' work - expecially when there are immature mods who lack any common sense on the other end of the channel. This whole site has more procedures and protocols than the Republic's Senate.

 

Tern, you must realized that most of the mods here can't even legally drive, and a good deal of them have mommy and daddy issues.

 

well, I've avoided this til now:

a few quick points:

i) The logic of 'the banning was wrong but he remains banned due to registering socks' is ludicrus. It's the same logic dictators use to keep people in jail. ''yes, the person was not guilty of terrorist action when we jailed him, though he has since punched a guard and as such will remain in jail''

ii) To post something from the Episode-X modsquad when discussing whether to do some new pages in htl or use a dbase/php calls: ''I have no idea what you are talking about' - Ternian.
Yup, Terns techy knowledge is {sorry T!} not exactly up to hacker standards.

iii) WHATEVER Scott or anyone else said the banning was not to do with Tern knowing {or rather not} about hacking.

edit : ''he was banned for "failing to reveal the hacker".
- As I recall the official line was that he was banned for not telling Scott exactly how DP gained access. Something Tern had no knowledge of.

 

Wow the gang is around, good to see ya TC, sorry I haven't been around the EX boards or the other boards in a while. Same goes to you too Tern. Got bored, decided to browse, and I saw this up again, thought I'd give my worthless $.02

 

I can't believe that gimp Darth Pyschotic is still causing trouble around here...

 

He's not, nobody ever said he was. And from my point of view, he has done a lot of things for this place. I like to think of DP as a blessing in disguise.

I think he gave up, realizing that there's no convincing a 16 year old who thinks they can handle a 10,000 person net-community.

 

Yeah, Crim, I know...

 

Crimson/Pizza, back off you head. Whatever you may believe, you did blow legitimate chances before your last ban.

Tern, can I just reiterate what I said on Boxing Day, please? I want for this entire thing to be settled, and soon, so can you just hold back and wait for that?

 

"Tern, you must realized that most of the mods here can't even legally drive, and a good deal of them have mommy and daddy issues."


That allegation couldn't be my father from the truth!


// rimshot

 

The boards are in a different place then they were a year or so ago when this happened. It's time we really sit down and determine if retaining the ban is fair. If I knew in my heart of hearts I did nothing wrong but felt I couldn't have the truth heard via the written word, knowing full well a simple phone conversation would have settled it all, who knows if I would have invented socks too.

When you feel you're right, you've been wrongly accused, and nobody believes you, I can understand Ternian feeling like he was left with no alternatives. At its core, I believe in Ternian we have a good person and someone interested in the films like the rest of us.

 

If an innocent man was accused of stealing and sent to jail, only to escape and be proved innocent, should he serve the rest of his sentence for escaping?

No he shouldn't. However, if the guy goes around assaulting people while he has escaped, a new punishment should be decided. That is your current situation.

 

*sigh*

OK, let me dig waaaay back and see if I can recall some of the specifics of this situation which are being left out, for whatever reason...

As I remember it, Ternian was the beneficiary of the hacker by being sent private emails which were exchanged between administrators here. No, I don't think Ternian himself was the one who 'hacked' into the admin mailing list, nor did I ever (and I don't think Ternian was asking to receive these emails). He was, however, in possession of an email sent to him by the person who *was* doing the hacking. When asked to help us out, he refused. He didn't forward us the message, he didn't tell us who it was from, what email address... nothing. If I remember correctly, he refused to do so because we had locked his friend Silmarillion's account because we were worried that it had been compromised, and Ternian didn't like the way we dealt with the situation... so he chose to not give what information he had (even if it was extremely little, and not likely to have gotten us anywhere) regarding the emails he had been sent. It was for *this* reason that Scott banned him.

It wasn't a case of Scott not having any logical reason, like some here are saying. He *did* have a reason - Ternian was being sent stolen emails, and he refused to help us figure out who was sending them. He also made a few remarks that made it seem as though he knew who the hacker was (I'm not saying he did know, I'm just saying he made some ambiguous comments regarding the situation which Scott interpreted to mean that Ternian knew who was doing it). Yes, yes, we all now know it was dp. It wasn't such an obvious fact then... Regardless, these comments didn't sit well at the time.

Anyway...

Scott had a reason, whether some of you agree with the logic or not. I personally didn't feel Ternian should have been banned for it, but, hey, Scott was the boss. It was his site. There was absolutely nothing I could do. It was an extremely frustrating time for everyone here, as we were being hacked. It wasn't exactly our finest hour, and we weren't exactly in good moods. I think everyone here can understand that, regardless of whether or not you think the hacker was some sort of 'net hero' rolleyes).

Now.

Since that time, I have always been in support of Ternian's unbanning. Ask Ternian himself. During the time it was all happening, I was exchanging emails with him, telling him I didn't agree with it, and that I would do my best to remedy the situation. I kept trying. I am still trying to this day.

This issue is being discussed right now with the staff, and with the Administration here.

No thread in Comms where people with a chip on their shoulder dig up old grudges is going to help anything. I'm doing my best. All of the mods are doing what they can.

Vertical

 

It doesn't even have to be assaulting people. Escaping the prison is one thing; vandalizing it is something else entirely.

If an innocent man was accused of stealing and sent to jail, only to escape and be proved innocent, should he serve the rest of his sentence for escaping?

And further, before he escapes, he should see a lawyer, make a case, argue it. In Ternian's case, he could have followed the proper procedure of unban requests, sock PMs to mods (which are allowed), or even formulating his case in a rational voice and asking a friend to post it in Comms for other users to debate. All of those are rational adult behaviors.

I would expect an escapee to be caught and re-imprisoned until his conviction was overturned, at which point he would receive a formal apology from the state... but escaping without going through the proper appeals process wouldn't exactly endear him to me. (I love Shawshank Redemption, but all through it, I just kept thinking, "Why doesn't this guy consult with his lawyer?")

 

I was not speaking on your behalf, Ternian. I would not want to. I merely stated what I had observed from your own words in your own forum. You do nothing to sooth relations between the sites and yes, you do suppport those who make the blanket arguments.

The JC is not 100% drama. It is in fact less than one percent, if you want to throw around unsubstantiated numbers.

The super majority of people don't give two ***** about you, your situation, me, my situation, Carter, Pizza, DP, Senator Dzrepko A-something's tirades - they come here to post about Star Wars and to talk to friends in a friendly community environment. That the age group has somewhat sloped downward a bit doesn't matter because it is not something we should change. If anything, we should be trying to teach them to act like adults and before that, just respect them like they are older than they are.

Communications is frequented by a minority of posters that ends up having a dissproportionate say in what goes on here at the JC. It's a vocal minority, but not one you should use to condemn thousands of people and such a vast message board with.


But back to your banning, I did support unbanning for the majority of the time you were banned. Like I said, there was no good reason to ban you. But since then, you have not shown the strength of character to either forget about it (as it is just the internet and not even your message board) or try to get back via the proper channels, like using a sock to PM many mods to get your side heard and hopefully, get a majority of the Administration behind you. Instead -> drama in Comms and you can't even admit it.

 

Since that time, I have always been in support of Ternian's unbanning. Ask Ternian himself. During the time it was all happening, I was exchanging emails with him, telling him I didn't agree with it, and that I would do my best to remedy the situation. I kept trying. I am still trying to this day.

This issue is being discussed right now with the staff, and with the Administration here.

To add to this, there have actually been attempts to end the disputes between TFN and E-X for quite a while now.
While all the DP hacking was going on last year, there were discussions between me and Vert and some of the E-X staff, as we both agreed that the issues DP's hacking had brought into the limelight showed drastic problems with TFN that couldn't and shouldn't be swept under the carpet. It was suggested, among other things, that as a starting point, Vert and I would talk to Scott to attempt to get Ternian's ban lifted in return for the E-X staff making an exception to their Anarchy board rules by removing DP.
In the end, though, the E-X staff decided not to meet us halfway on this, leaving us in exactly the same boat as before.

 

HAHA!! Oh, that's logical.

Speaking only from present dealings with both DP and Tern, that sounds like a really good deal. We'll give back Ternian to you and ban DP in exchange for . . . what again? Bending our rules?

I can't speak for the rest of the E-X staff, but hell, I'd rather keep them both! (Metaphorically speaking of course.)



IMHO if Tern's ban is lifted it should be on its own merit. Not because of action taken against someone else at another board.

 

As far as I recall, we never asked that DP be banned from E-X, only that E-X stop hosting links to his ripped stuff.

Vertical

 

Vert, I actually told Scott that the leak came from WITHIN the JC - not outside. Also, I didn't recieve any emails from the hacker at all...

JediGaladriel,

I haven't vandalised anything. This is JC DRAMA you've created. All I did was post in threads that were relevant to the topic of the thread. I suggest you either post only what you know (which is nothing), or not all.

Lord Bane,

Your childish remarks are stunning. The argument over my banning has nothing at all to do with Episode-X. To even suggest it is a blatant attempt by you to create drama. To make out I have an alterior motive to ruin the JC is also creating drama.

I have had problems with the way the JC has run pretty much since Vert was moved from regular poster to mod. To suggest that it was conceived afterwards is absurd. to suggest that it is because I post at an alternative site is childish.

And in case you have be blind to anything that has been said in this thread, I have been going through proper channels for nearly a year now which translates as a life ban; on a SW, internet, messagebord...

In the end, though, the E-X staff decided not to meet us halfway on this, leaving us in exactly the same boat as before.

Propoganda, ay? Let's not forgot the part about the JC demanding we change our site to their liking...but that's another thread, no?

 

As far as I recall, we never asked that DP be banned from E-X, only that E-X stop hosting links to his ripped stuff.
Thanks for clearing that up.

But still, it would've undermimed the Anarchy Board's entire purpose if they (I say "they" because I wasn't part of "them" then) had made exceptions, regardless of the circumstances.

Had he posted the hacked material in another forum, I don't think it would've been a problem to take action against him.

 

Well, yes, that's exactly what we were told in response... But something tells me if someone posted all sorts of personal information about some of the mods there, they might not be so quick to defend the principle of the forum.

Vertical

 

Ternian, I know that you're being rude and insulting, and that you're flaming, and gosh, I haven't hit the ban on this sock.

Yet.

 

Speaking only from present dealings with both DP and Tern, that sounds like a really good deal. We'll give back Ternian to you and ban DP in exchange for . . . what again? Bending our rules?

But at the same time you expect us to bend our rules and unban Ternian, unless I'm greatly mistaken.

And we weren't asking for Ternian back out of an ulterior motive (ie his spy reports or whatever), just offering a quid pro quo. Our offer was simply to try and end this inter-site dispute, and not for our benefit. "You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours", if you like.

You're the lot who complain night and day about the rules and regulations here, so it's quite ironic that you cling to your Anarchy board rules even though they prevent us trying to end a petty squabble.