The Bashers' Sanctuary Strikes Back

Discussion in 'The Phantom Menace' started by Binary_Sunset, Mar 23, 2002.

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  1. George15 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 4, 2002
    star 4
  2. Punisher Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 1998
    star 4
    Why didn't you say so?

    Corrected PT edit of the OT

    Luke turns with his blaster in his hand. He aims it at a strange green creature.

    CREATURE: Away out your weapon, I mean you no harm. Why are you here?

    LUKE: I'm looking for someone.

    CREATURE: Found someone you have. Yoda, the Jedi Master, I am.

    LUKE: You're Yoda? The Jedi Master?

    OBI-WAN: This is my former master.

    YODA: I am Yoda, yes! Obi-Wan reckless were you, told him I trained him, did he? Forgot about Qui-Gon Jinn! I only trained him as youngling!

    OBI-WAN: I was reckless when I was younger and I hated to fly.

    LUKE: Ben? What is he talking about? Who else was your master?

    YODA: Qui-Gon Jinn, former master of his, died in battle. Discovered your father, a powerful Jedi was he.
    But, first a test for you!

    Yoda ignites his green lightsaber and leaps at Luke. Yoda is hollering and flipping off of the tress and the branches. Luke ignites his lightsaber, but can barely deflect Yoda's blows. This sequence lasts several minutes.

    YODA: Fought well you have, my potential apprentice!

    LUKE: You're a powerful warrior!

    YODA: Wars not make one great! Come! For the Jedi, it is time to eat!

    END SCENE



  3. guittarjedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 4
    So what's your deal George15? You don't like episodes 4 through 6, do you like the prequels?
  4. Punisher Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 1998
    star 4
    I was just trying to point out the lack of excitment during the middle part of ESB and how I wish there was some injected into it,that's all.

    I feel the same way about AOTC.... too bad George didn't see that a Droid Factory scene would have helped out all the romance sequences on Naboo. 8-}

    ANAKIN: I wish I could wish my feelings away...

    PADME: Look out!

    CUT TO: Anakin is attacked by a robotic welding arm. Padme steps back in surprise and trips, landing close to the roaring fireplace. The flames catch her scarf on fire as Anakin battles the robotic arm.

    ANAKIN: Padme! We need to be together for ever, you and I.

    PADME: This is the real world, come back to it! You're fighting a mechanical arm and my clothes are on fire, we need to deal with this now.

    ANAKIN: We can keep our relationship a secret.

    PADME: It would destroy us!

    Anakin slices the welding arm in two and rushes towards Padme. He dramtically slices her burning scarf in two.

    ANAKIN: You're right. It would destroy us.

    PADME: We co..

    END SCENE

    Now THAT would have been much better! :D
  5. Punisher Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 1998
    star 4
    Define irony...

    People that say there is depth in the SW Prequel films also complain that the current crop of summer films lack depth and are overpowered by special effects.

    These people hate the Matrix Reloaded and have griped about the Hulk and Terminator 3.

    I'm sure TESB would have been a disappointment to this summer's movie audience.

    "Why are they talking about Luke's father so much?"
    "Wasn't Ben killed in the first one?"
    "Who cares who Vader was! That lightsaber duel was nothing more than a way to show off special effects!!"

    Yeah, the Hulk was slower than Spider-Man, T3 ISN'T directed by James Cameron and The Matrix Reloaded showed Neo with superpowers that he "discovered" from the first film.
    The difference between these films and the PT is that these movies didn't have a standard set by them by 3 previous films in the series.

    The Hulk isn't Spider-Man, all you have to do is read the comics to figure that out!
    The first Matrix could have been a "flash in the pan" and T3 had low expectations as soon as it was announced that Cameron wasn't coming back.
    It seems the only thing all these films and the PT have in common was hype and high expectations derived from it.
    I'd thought people would have learned from TPM, I guess not!

    Honestly, the only movie that I haven't heard anyone ***** about was Finding Nemo*!

    *A great film just like all the other Pixar films, ironically a series of kids' films that are really a show of special effects are more entertaining and moving than all of the PT and this summer's films combined!

    I'm sure that wouldn't have been the case if Lucas still owned Pixar! No wonder he sold it! ;)
  6. hawk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2000
    star 5
    Come on guys. Don't let the last hours end up in a OT debate.
  7. Punisher Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 1998
    star 4
    Consider my last post a lame attempt to steer the conversation towards something else... 8-}

    Bashing the OT is gonna provoke the same response as bashing the PT, someone bashes something, someone defends it...
    What gets me is when people take a slam towards a SW film as a personal attack... hence the "anti-basher" sentiment.

    You really have to push to find a bash worthy instance in the OT (Excluding ROTJ) that will really stick, taking everything into consideration...
    You couldn't have bashed the OT on the same things as the PT because the OT stood alone...
    You can only bash in retrospect and that is a bit lame considering the 20+ year gap between the PT's and the OT's production...
  8. Oakessteve Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 9, 1999
    star 6
    This is a few pages back, but going back to what George15 said about Star Wars being very campy and dated.....erm....you have seen Attack of the Clones, haven't you? That has to the campest Star Wars film ever! Just look at Obi-Wan, for heaven's sakes! Of course, I think all Star Wars films are a little campy and dated, but for me, Attack of the Clones is probably the campest of them all.
  9. Punisher Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 1998
    star 4
    Okay, I can see everyone's busy sleeping...

    I challenge all of you to get this thread up to 15,500 posts before it's locked...

    Can it be done? [face_devil]
  10. Punisher Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 1998
    star 4
    Okay, I can see everyone's busy sleeping...

    I challenge all of you to get this thread up to 15,500 posts before it's locked...

    Can it be done? [face_devil]

    EDIT: If this thing shows up twice, sorry, I don't have time to deal with this stoopid boards inability to post my comments once! :mad:
  11. hawk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2000
    star 5
    The whole point of this thread is for people of a like mind to be able to use this place as a short-cut for conversation. We all agree JJ is annoying, for instance, so none of us have to spend wasted time going into a long JJ debate. We can short-cut to discussions like, "another film contains an annoying JJ like character". The premise "JJ is annoying" is already accepted and this leaves open further discussions rather than infant ones.

    Discussions about whether the OT sucks are a waste of time for us because we all agreed a while back that it certainly does not. So, it is allowed but a waste of time and just annoying.
  12. Scott3eyez Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 1, 2001
    star 4
    Punisher,

    Shouldn't that last ESB re-write end with "to truly know someone, fight them you must?"

    ;)


    >>>Scott, go ahead and post what you think is brewing for the Sanctuary. I, of course, will be able to confirm or deny nothing. But it will be fun to see if anyone can guess!

    I figured our favourite man in black and gold was going to start it...

    Or maybe... Josh?

    :cool:


    >>>Well it's made clear that they've taken Theed. But how much resistance was put up we don't know. And what's happening in other cities?

    We see the landing- no resistance.
    We see the tanks rolling through the forest- no resistance (unless trees count.)
    We see the tanks rolling into Theed, the capital city. No resistance.
    We see the Queen being taken away with her bodyguards- no resistance.

    So I think it's pretty reasonable to assume that the reason we were explicitly shown no resistance was that there was no resistance.

    If there was anyone capable of putting up any resistance, they surely would have been in Theed- where the pilot, ships and security teams were, right?

    >>>Well that's kinda my point - we don't see anybody die on Alderaan but I think we can safely assume that plenty of people did.

    Yep- because there's evidence presented onscreen to support the assumption. (The planet exploding, the disturbance in the Force.) That's how you have something offscreen but still make the audience aware of it.

    What evidence is there that there was any resistance to the TF invasion- or more specifically (and relevant to the point) people dying as a result of any resistance?

    >>>Well I wouldn't say they had no defenses - we saw Naboo Fighter ships, and Panaka talks of resistance cells, and they obviously have guns.

    We also saw the pilots being held prisoner, rather than flying their ships. And nobody shooting anywhere...

    I just don't understand this point of view that "people must have been fighting- Lucas just forgot to film it"...

    Yes, there were "resistance cells", but there is nothing that implies that they were doing any fighting- or even anything other than hiding.

    >>>The image of the tanks rolling into Theed and Panaka's remarks about resistance cells evokes to me a similar situation of the Nazis rolling into Paris - they took the place quite easily but that wasn't the end of it, there was still fighting going on.

    And, like in France, the resistance didn't actually achieve anything significant, but was more a case of people hiding from the occupying forces, relying on help from without to liberate their country, right? (I dropped history very early on, so please fogive my ignorance on the subject...)

    >>>Well how is it a fake? Maybe they got him to exagerrate the death toll to provoke the Queen, but I assumed he was talking about people dying in the fighting and then later Nute was talking about people being starved in the camps.

    I assumed from the start that it was a fake- it wasn't Bibble talking. (Maybe it was Zam Wessel? Who knows...) The fact is, when we see him talking n the flesh, he contradicts what "he" says in the message. Plus Obi Wan recognises straight away that the message is a trap, and tells us so.

    >>>I'm wondering why people assume this would be a bloodless invasion. No one dying? The people of Naboo would surely resist, that's why the droids were armed. So undoubtedly people had to die.

    OK- lets say some little kid walks into your house, unarmed in any way, and asks you to leave. You look at him and figure he poses no danger to you. Do you a) stand your ground and defend your property or b) go quietly and leave all your posessions to him.

    Now, imagine that instead of some kid, it's a SWAT team pointing guns at you. Would you react in the same way?

    I think that 999 times out of 1000, the SWAT team scenario would result in either less or no violent action- and certainly less chance of anyone dying. Despite the fact that it involves guns...


    >>>It's called "story", it's called "character developm
  13. gezvader28 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2003
    star 4
    George15-
    That's also one of my gripes with the OT.It's so shallow and simplistic.I like more complex,mysterious plots(PT).

    "the PT was made just for you!"

    Of course it was.I enjoy more dramatic and sophisticated movies.Not ones that are superficial and as deep as a puddle.


    Hmmm... I wonder if you're being entirely serious in your criticisms,George; you say you want complex, mysterious, non-superficial etc. And yet curiously just a few days ago you said:

    "SW has always been superficial light-hearted fun.No more no less."

    Hmmmm

    Anyway, let's address a couple of your points:

    BTW about Yoda's little masquerade,(actually I thought it was quite humorous)I really have no problem with that scene.I was just trying to point out the lack of excitment during the middle part of ESB and how I wish there was some injected into it,that's all

    Well how about the hero going into a cave and coming face-to-face with his most evil enemy, decapitating him and discovering he has his own face. That's mysterious, that's exciting. But its not exciting in a 'there's some battledroids let's have another tedious knock 'em down slice of action' way, it's exciting because it's a powerful image, it's a scene about the characters, about where their heading. It arouses our interest in these characters to a higher level.

    You seem determined to remove all the characterization.

    Why Does Ben appear to Luke when he's freezing to death - because it's more interesting than your way, as an audience we can't be sure if Luke isn't imagining this. And this creates a sense of mystery about who or whether Yoda even exists, this tension keeps us interested making Yoda's ultimate introduction all the more powerful.

    Complex plots, well lets look at TPM - here is a film which spends 45 minutes of tortuous, contrived plotting about how the main character gets spare parts for his spaceship.

    In the OT it was about the characters. In TPM the characters are moved around by George like toy figures in a playground.

    g
  14. gezvader28 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2003
    star 4
    Scott-
    What evidence is there that there was any resistance to the TF invasion- or more specifically (and relevant to the point) people dying as a result of any resistance?

    very little evidence, I agree. But I assume there was , and in other places there was more.

    I just don't understand this point of view that "people must have been fighting- Lucas just forgot to film it"...

    No I think he just didn't want to film it.

    Yes, there were "resistance cells", but there is nothing that implies that they were doing any fighting- or even anything other than hiding.

    Well they are called "resistance" cells so that would imply they are fighting, unless they're just mounting an agressive anti-TF advertising campaign. :p

    And, like in France, the resistance didn't actually achieve anything significant, but was more a case of people hiding from the occupying forces, relying on help from without to liberate their country, right? (I dropped history very early on, so please fogive my ignorance on the subject...)

    Don't sweat, my history isn't great either! But I do know that the French resistance did achieve quite a lot - sabotage, spying, helping the allies etc.

    I assumed from the start that it was a fake- it wasn't Bibble talking. (Maybe it was Zam Wessel? Who knows...) The fact is, when we see him talking n the flesh, he contradicts what "he" says in the message. Plus Obi Wan recognises straight away that the message is a trap, and tells us so

    But I don't assume it's a fake, not the basic content anyway.

    g
  15. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    Complex plots, well lets look at TPM - here is a film which spends 45 minutes of tortuous, contrived plotting about how the main character gets spare parts for his spaceship.

    That's like saying, "The first 30 minutes of A New Hope was about some whiney farm kid cleaning droids!" or "The middle third of The Empire Strikes Back was about Han and Chewie trying to fix their spaceship!" It just doesn't sound too exciting when you put it like that, does it?
  16. Punisher Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 1998
    star 4
    AHEM! Don't you have a Matrix film to bash? ;)

    No, Scott. I couldn't use that line from Reloaded, I figured I was pushing it as it was with Lando's antics during the Cloud City shoot out! 8-}

    The way I see it, if you had problems with the OT, then you really shouldn't have seen the PT!
    I realize bashers will catch garbage for seeing Ep.3 and complaining about it, but we might as well see the end of this train wreck! (Hell, Lucas might even redeem himself!)
    Imagine someone that didn't like the OT coming on here and complaining about them and the PT!
    That person should really get it from those "true SW fans" hanging around.

    I can hear it now....
    "WHY are YOU on a SW board if you don't like ANY of the movies?!"
  17. Django211 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 1999
    star 4
    Punisher that's how I'm looking at Episode III. Lets watch as George gives us lamer dialogue, lets watch the actors go thru the motions worse than Harrison Ford in ROTJ, & lets see state of the art cgi that will be replaced in a few years by a special edition. Pointless cameos you got em. Lucas has heard the complaints about the PT so far so he has fixed everything by getting rid of editor Ben Burrt. How could Lucas think Burrt could edit something as fast & intense as George demands? Lets wait to see how George tries in vain to tie these films to the OT.

    Best of all, lets watch gushers defend every poor decision Lucas makes on this last film.
  18. Binary_Sunset Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 5
    Punisher, those are some great rewritten scenes! (LEIA: I'll try spinning. That's a neat trick!) [face_laugh]
  19. Binary_Sunset Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 5
    Hawk wrote: 'The whole point of this thread is for people of a like mind to be able to use this place as a short-cut for conversation. We all agree JJ is annoying, for instance, so none of us have to spend wasted time going into a long JJ debate. We can short-cut to discussions like, "another film contains an annoying JJ like character". The premise "JJ is annoying" is already accepted and this leaves open further discussions rather than infant ones.'

    I couldn't have said it better myself.
  20. Lady_Sami_J_Kenobi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 6
    JW00,

    -Plot holes in the PT the size of Missouri

    And here I thought most of the plot holes were the size of Texas! Or maybe Alaska!

    Okay, it's Thursday, where's the new sanctuary? Or is this big change going to happen at midnight, while I'm busy sleeping?

    I guess Quix will restart the Sanctuary! ;)

    Lady Sami--Celebrating a second year of bashing the PT
  21. Punisher Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 1998
    star 4
    Glad you like those, Binary. :D

    Trust me, you guys don't want to see me re-write the OT with a PT edit in mind... it would give George too many ideas... He'd probably just rip off the scripts from me anyhow and say that the final films were a "homage"! ;)

    I'm hoping Ep.3 will be great, but I'm also expecting to heckle the film opening night. ;)
  22. Lady_Sami_J_Kenobi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 6
    George15,

    If you don't like the OT or the PT, I am wondering, why are you here?

    Why don't you start a basher's sanctuary in the Classics forum for those who don't like the OT?

    Durwood,

    Here's a suggestion, why don't you visit a LOTR site or a Matrix site and lodge your dislike of those movies there?

    Just susggestions, guys! ;)

    Lady Sami, celebrating a aecond year of bashing the PT
  23. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    Because I prefer spending my time talking about movies I actually like.

    Radical concept, ain't it? ;)
  24. Punisher Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 1998
    star 4
    Then you must really like Matrix Reloaded! [face_laugh]
  25. Lady_Sami_J_Kenobi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 6
    Durwood,

    I'm confused, then, because your comments on TMR really sound like bashing! Maybe you should stop visiting the Sanctuary 'cause we're contagious! Hang out here long enough and you'll catch basherism, the most contagious disease in the GFFA! ;) 8-}

    EDIT] And by your logic, the fact that you like Matrix automatically means that you have to like TMR because you tell us bashers that we have to like all the SW films, regardless of quality! [Alfsvoice]HA![/alfsvoice]
    Lady Sami, celebrating a second year of PT bashing
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