The Bashers' Sanctuary Strikes Back

Discussion in 'The Phantom Menace' started by Binary_Sunset, Mar 23, 2002.

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  1. Loco_for_Lucas Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2002
    star 5
    If by "littered with trolls" you mean "occasionally visited by those with reasonable but differing opinions" then the answer to your question is most likely yes.


    Let us know when that happens, 'kay? Thanks.
  2. Punisher Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 1998
    star 4
    You found Reloaded underwhelming, yet it seems you liked the first Matrix film? :confused:
    I thought the Matrix was full of "Philosophy 101" ideas?

    I'm really surprised that you don't have issues with the PT if you are so quick to dismiss The Matrix after one "underwhelming sequel".

    With SW you have 3 films that set a high standard and a series of "Prequels" that by all accounts should have improved/expanded upon the situations and characters introduced in the previous films.

    Instead, we get unnecessary fan favorite cameos, in jokes about other works by the same filmmaker and his friends, juvenile humor, and very uncompelling storytelling and characters.
    True, this is my opinion, but even though people may be angry about story points in The Matrix Reloaded, they didn't suffer through some of these same issues. You may not like the creator's decisions, but at least they didn't change the tone of the sequel into such an opposite of the original.

    I'm sorry, but it seems to me that people are willing to give Lucas a free pass because it's SW, whereas if it were any other filmmaker they would let their film languish at the box office.
  3. Wampa_Joe Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2001
    star 2
    In short, if you like anything with the SW label (even if it be but a single SW comic published back in 1979), then you have earned the right to call yourself a SW fan

    Exactly! I really don't get the mentality that litters the prequel boards (and as of late, the Classic Trilogy board as well) where you have to like everything to be a true Star Wars fan (well, except EU... you can't like any EU!). I thought the first two prequels were abysmal train wrecks that go a long way to tarnish the legacy of a series of films I enjoy so much, but I'm still as big a Star Wars fan as anybody here.

    There's nothing "artistic" about what Georgie has in store for Chewbacca in EPIII. It's fan pandering, plain and simple. Plus, it makes a mess out of the Original Trilogy continuity (as if TPM and AOTC haven't done that already). So... now Obi-Wan and Chewie know each other, but they never acknowledge it? Ooh, the power of myth! Oh, and Owen Lars lived with C-3P0 for ten years, but he doesn't remember him in ANH? What kind of fresh hell is this?
  4. Wampa_Joe Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2001
    star 2
    I should add though that I'm looking forward to Episode III, even if the first two haven't given me any reason to do so. The Star Wars in me can never be extinguished, no matter how hard Lucas and McCallum try.
  5. Punisher Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 1998
    star 4
    Owen not recognizing Threepio is easy!

    All protocol droids look the same and they all speak with a prissy British accent. 8-}

    Odd that Owen not recognizing Threepio is acceptable, but don't dare say Vader didn't recognize Threepio in the Carbon Freezing Chamber... Vader recognized him because the EU said so and because Vader really is good, sweet little Annie and Annie remewbers his bestest droid buddy from childhood!
    (Vader also sensed Leia's power in the Force in the CFC also.)


    Don't worry about Chewie, it'll all make sense when we find out that he was a Wookiee outcast and that Obi-Wan and Anakin found him and saved him from the Confederacy, thereby Chewie owing Obi-Wan a "life debt".
    Plus, there's gonna be an awesome scene where Obi-Wan tricks Boss N... uh, Chief Chwuffaloo into freeing Chewie from being "puneished".
    I'm telling you it's gonna be ****in' awesome! :D
  6. Wampa_Joe Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2001
    star 2
    Oh, and don't forget all Stormtroopers being Jango Fett clones, despite being of varying heights and different voices. It's okay, in the ULTIMATE ARCHIVAL editions, it's all going to be "fixed!"

    You know, when I watch the OT and references are made to The Clone Wars, Anakin's fall, the rise of Palpatine, and so on, I still get tingles down my spine from what could have been. I'm able to transport myself to before the prequel trilogy. The Clone Wars had nothing to do with stormtroopers and an evil version of the Rebel Alliance. Anakin's fall was truly tragic, not bordering on a teenage temper tantrum gone too far. Palpatine wasn't given the powers of emperor by someone merely suggesting it (what's the deal with that anyway? All it takes is one senator to remove from office or bestow ultimate power to an individual?). Oh, what could have been. At least I always have my imagination, and the ability to remove the prequels from my mind when watching A New Hope and the rest.

    ****in' awesome indeed.

  7. Durwood Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    You found Reloaded underwhelming, yet it seems you liked the first Matrix film?
    I thought the Matrix was full of "Philosophy 101" ideas?


    It is. I just happen to like the way it was presented in the first film.

    I'm really surprised that you don't have issues with the PT if you are so quick to dismiss The Matrix after one "underwhelming sequel".

    Oh, I do see the issues, I just don't agree that they're significant enough to warrent dismissing the films.

    With SW you have 3 films that set a high standard and a series of "Prequels" that by all accounts should have improved/expanded upon the situations and characters introduced in the previous films.

    In my opinion, that's exactly what we got.

    I'm sorry, but it seems to me that people are willing to give Lucas a free pass because it's SW...

    And others seem unwilling to give him any credit whatsoever just because it's Star Wars and is judged by some arbitrary yet impossible to meet standard. Perhaps these two camps could meet in the middle some where. Would be nice.
  8. Lady_Sami_J_Kenobi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 6
    Okay, one of the fun things I got to do on my vacation while I was at my sister's house was I got to watch the non-SE versions of ESB and ROTJ. edit spelling error

    I still get tingles thinking of what could have been, too, but it makes the differences, plot holes, etc. of the PT just that much more obvious.

    If Vader had sensed Leia's force abilities in the CFC, he would never have let her leave Cloud City.

    And I did notice, as someone else pointed out, that the soundtrack actually tracked what was happening on-screen, from the very first frame to the very last. Sigh.

    Lucas won't be able to kill all the SW fandom in me, either, no matter how hard he tries. And I have Gary Kurtz and a host of unnamed others to thank for that as well.

    Durwood,

    I sense an inconsistency in your reasoning. We SW fans HAVE TO like all the SW films and yet you don't HAVE to like all the Matrix films. What type of logic is that?

    Lady Sami, celebrating 26 years of SW fandom
  9. Lady_Sami_J_Kenobi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 6
    double post=double the fun?

    Lady Sami, celebrating 26 years of SW fandom
  10. hawk Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2000
    star 5
    As for my alleged preocuppation with Reloaded, I am merely discussing its deficiencies relative to my favorite film franchise. And I am posting on a Star Wars message board, after all.

    Ouch! Talk about a side-step! :D You tell us that you like to spend time discussing the films you like yet you are doing the opposite BASHING Reloaded in a thread on exactly the same page.

    And NO, it doesn't matter if you do it here, with your family at home or at a Barney forum. Bashing a film IS bashing a film. And it doesn't matter if you do it "relative" to your favourite films. Does that mean it's ok to bash AOTC relative to the OT?

    Quit trying to take the higher ground Durwood.
  11. George15 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 4, 2002
    star 4
    "If you don't like the OT or the PT, I am wondering, why are you here?"

    What would lead you to believe that?I'm a staunch fan of the PT and it's going to stay that way.I even flaunt it(sig).How did this misconception arise?

    I'll make this very clear.

    PT=I'm a gusher.

    OT=I'm a basher.

    That should clear up any confusion about my loyalties.

  12. Punisher Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 1998
    star 4
    I posted this... it disappeared. I will not be silenced!

    Well, this thread has been around for quite a while... if some people weren't so busy being angry about it's existence or taking any complaint about SW as a personal attack and would read and comprehend that many posts here cover many of the same problems with the PT, then maybe there could be some "middle ground".

    Sorry, but there are some SW fans that would heve liked for Boba Fett, Chewbacca and Jabba the Hutt, for example, to remain in the OT. Unless Lucas edits them, this will always be a stumbling block, for example.

    I understand that a lot of people feel that Jar Jar Binks serves many mythological and storytelling roles, that's fine, but that still doesn't make me feel that for a character that had so little screen time in AOTC, that he needed to have so much of the spotlight on him in TPM.
    He established Binks is a fool that got into a position of power by accident, only to gain more power due to circumstance, only be a fool again!
    Yeah, he could do something "heroic" in Ep.3, but then it will seem forced, an act that Lucas places on the character to redeem him for acts he did because he's naive idiot with a good heart! He's the "fool" version of Vader, and a waste of time!

    I would have liked to see the mother of Luke and Leia be a "person" as opposed to her being a mouthpiece for democracy, a naive girl/queen and clueless Senator that bares her stomach in a very campy manner.
    She's supposed to be mature, but she's little more than a child, much like Anakin.

    I would like to have seen See-Threepio actually bring something into the story, now he's a gimmick to display Anakin's "knack" for building things. Anakin never has any memorable interaction with him at all or he's disposable "physical" humor that's way beyond anything done in the OT.
    Threepio's there so Lucas can point to his old quotes about "It's through the droid's eyes." and say "See! See!".

    Lucas's masterful storytelling has diminished into poor dialogue, in-jokes, pointless plot twists and almost every variation on scenes/lines from the OT his little brain can think of!

    Sorry, but I can't see any middle ground as long as people say that these "flaws" don't exist and when they do exist, it's only in the posters opinion/mind or that the OT is as guilty of the same "flaws".
    Finally, the OT was never as contrived as the PT has been, even as bad a ROTJ was in "stunning developments", it didn't flush most of the unique elements of SW as fast as TPM and AOTC has!
  13. hawk Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2000
    star 5
    Since I am off to work, I better write some last profound post before this thread is locked. Due to the nature of this bashing thread and because it was originally aimed at TPM, here it goes:

    Portman is wooden

    JJ is fake and annoying

    Boss Nass is annoying and fake

    OW has not screentime

    Jake Lloyd can't act

    The gungan battle looks like a cartoon

    The space battle is a joke

    Darth Maul needs more screentime

    The pod race is boring

    Tatoonie is boring

    Qui-Gon is a cheat, liar and overall bad Jedi

    The dialogue is awful

    The CGI is overkill

    The music isn't compelling

    Did I mention JJ sucks?


    Farewell, Basher's Sanctuary no. 2. :)
  14. Punisher Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 1998
    star 4
    I wonder George 15?
    How is it being a fan of a series that you don't like the ending to, but most people seem to love?

    I know that even though I don't care for some of the beginning, I have something to look forward to at the end of my SW marathon.(Which will occur when the SW Saga is all on DVD!)
  15. George15 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 4, 2002
    star 4
    I think I'll follow suit.

    Chewbacca is annoying.

    The Tattoine scenes are long and boring.

    Vader's suit is tawdry.

    The effects are god-awful.

    Obiwan is an old fool.

    The story has too many plot holes.

    Storm Troopers are inaccurate,incompotent, and idiotic,poor excuses for an army.

    The ships are obviously models.

    It's a 2 hour advertisement for models and puppets.

    Han shooting first doesn't make sense.

    No suspense,because you know the heroes will live.

    And finally Tarkin being in charge diminishes Vader's character.

    This is my last post here.Good bye.






  16. Punisher Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 1998
    star 4
    I think you are looking at the PT through rose colored glasses. Also, it's George's vision and I can't see how you can't accept it?
    Especially ANH since it was written and directed by Lucas himself, the same guy that wrote and directed those PT films you are so fond of.

    EDIT: I felt a disturbance in the Force, like "bashers" all over the world have read my post and are doubling over with laughter.

    EDIT 2: If you thought Chewie was annoying then you'd better boycott Ep.3 with Dr. Evazan!
  17. George15 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 4, 2002
    star 4
    "Especially ANH since it was written and directed by Lucas himself, the same guy that wrote and directed those PT films you are so fond of."

    Doesn't mean I'm obligated to like the film.I have no control over whether or not a film appeals to my interests and in this case ANH doesn't,just like the rest of the OT.

    Now this is my last post.I swear to God(crosses fingers). 8-}
  18. Loco_for_Lucas Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2002
    star 5
    I think you are looking at the PT through rose colored glasses. Also, it's George's vision and I can't see how you can't accept it?
    Especially ANH since it was written and directed by Lucas himself, the same guy that wrote and directed those PT films you are so fond of.


    Not only that, but back when he was at his prime.

    EDIT: I felt a distubance in the Force, like "bashers" all over the world have read my post and are doubling over with laughter.


    *falls out of chair laughing*

    EDIT 2: If you thought Chewie was annoying then you'd better boycott Ep.3 with Dr. Evazan!


    The image of them standing outside the theater together with anti-EpIII picket signs is hilarious.

    "Say NO to Chewbacca!"

    LOL

  19. Punisher Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 1998
    star 4
    I thought that was your last post? :confused:

    [face_laugh] Personally, I loved that tactic, it's a surefire way to get a response. ;)
    I don't use it anymore, it got kinda old.
  20. DrEvazan Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2002
    star 4
    "As for my alleged preocuppation with Reloaded, I am merely discussing its deficiencies relative to my favorite film franchise. And I am posting on a Star Wars message board, after all."

    which is EXACTLY what the rest of us are doing when we "merely" discuss the PTs deficiencies relative to OUR favorite film franchise. where better to discuss the problems with star wars films than on a star wars board, after all?

    we can all see right through you! nice try, "slick".

  21. Lady_Sami_J_Kenobi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 6
    I have just spent 20 minutes trying to access my private messages! What's with the boards today?

    George15,

    When ANH first came out, back in 1977, when it was just Star Wars, the effects weren't dated, they were cutting edge, like CGI is today.

    Han had to shoot first, he was a 'shoot first, ask questions later' kind of guy. It was the only way he survived, being as he was a smuggler and all. Chewie was annoying? Nope, Chewie was a big furball with heart.

    I could address the rest of your points one by one, but it's too time consuming. It's unfortunate that you have only seen the OT in it's new incarnation as the SE. The OT, in its day, was really something very special, something that won't ever happen again.

    Lady Sami
  22. Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2001
    star 6
    Did you see my response in the 'Anakin's NOT the Chosen One' thread?

    Didn't have a chance yet. I usually need a few stiff drinks before going into the AOTC Forum. 8-}


    OK- but what if the TF just took off and claimed to have never landed?

    Uhm, countless eye-witnesses, citizens, officials, Jedi?


    Hmmm... as AOTC showed that there was no military force, I guess that would have either been a squad of Jedi sent in to sort things out

    I suppose. In AOTC when they said they had no military, I couldn't help but to think "What the heck? Then what did Padme expect the Senate to do, and for that matter, use harsh language? Why isn't the TF running the whole show? They have a military!"


    "does that make the US's action any less of an invasion?"

    No, but my point there was we were shown that there was no resistance- no shooting, no dying, no bloodshed. (Most importantly, no dying.)


    But it would have still been an invasion, thus an illegal military action. That's the point.


    We'll get back to a monster 600+ pages in no time. And they will fear us

    That's the problem -- err, part of it.


    ANH is the most lackluster of the all the films.It lacks the energy and emotion displayed in ESB and ROTJ.It's very campy and dated.

    To each his own, I found it full of energy and excitement. Unlike all the other movies (especially the PT), it paces the action out in the right spots, builds the conflict and gives us a down to the wire finale. How cool can you get?


    ESB is also infected with boredom disease.Once again we find our heros in the middle of a desolate desert.I like my beginnings to start off with a bang,but ESB fails to deliver in that area.Luke getting captured by the Wampa shouldn't of happened along with the subsequent resucing scenes.I think it would have made a stark difference in the entertainment value of the first 30 minutes and maybe elevated it to my number 1 favorite SW film,had those scenes been taken

    That part did kind of suck.


    The middle of the movie also suffers from being boring.You have Luke on Degoba(spelling)just sitting there contemplating what he'll do next.Which coincides with Han and the gang stationed on a unstable astroid.How exciting!

    It's called character development. I know, I know, it's rare that SW should do this, and it definitely wasn't in the PT, but this sort of story-telling is actually good. It gives us reason to care about what the characters are doing and why we should be sad if they get blown up.


    And as for your Top 17 list. You really put ANH and ESB on there just for show? Why don't you put on other movies you reallyi like then?

    I concur.


    When the stormtroopers actually tried, they kicked ass (as, for example, on Leia's ship).

    Oh, like they did in the Battle of Endor, just dandy!


    That's also one of my gripes with the OT.It's so shallow and simplistic.I like more complex,mysterious plots(PT).

    I tend to, too. But PT doesn't deliver this with good story telling, for so a cool complex sci-fi tale, I go to Dune and B5.


    Now I could comprehend why you would think the effects are convincing in ESB and ROTJ but ANH's effects are unbearably bad

    I find only the movement of the ships (moving slowly in an unrealistic fashion) and the look of the lightsabers (even that's not too bad, just not as good as any other SW movie) to be in need of improvement. A few (though not most) of the cantina masks looked cheesy, but other than that, the effects of ANH will stand up against any movie to date.


    Why?What exactly in ANH and ESB warranted us sympathizing for them?The empire hasn't done anything to them.

    Uhm, Alderaan, anyone?


    It's called "story", it's called "character development", it's called "craftsmanship". The problem with the PT (or, at least ONE of the problems) is that it rushes through almost EVERYTHING...

    I don't know about that. They didn't rush through Tatooine fast enough for me.


    [i
  23. Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2001
    star 6
    I still have much to reply to in this thread, but as my next time to post here there will either (a) be no sanctuary, or (b) be a new sanctuary, I would like to conclude this thread by saying:

    The title for Episode II still sucks!!!

    Farewell, BSSB :(
  24. Lady_Sami_J_Kenobi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 6
    Darth-Stryphe,

    Okay, I'll say it here: "No, I don't think Anakin is the "Chosen One." Luke is, in my book!

    Lady Sami, who has gotten tired, finally, of manual sigs.
  25. Lady_Sami_J_Kenobi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 6
    another double post. We're over 15,000, guys. Probably due to all the double posts!

    Lady Sami, who has gotten tired, finally, of manual sigs.
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