The Battle of Endor I

Discussion in 'Star Wars And Film Music' started by EndorRebelScum, Feb 9, 2005.

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  1. EndorRebelScum Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 30, 2004
    star 3
    You know in BOE I on the ROTJ soundtrack, where little motifs of melodies are played? (9:30 - 10:00)I can hear a little of DOTF. Now, I'm not saying that it's in there after ep I. My Point is that I found it cool, that (mostly during the 2nd dish of ROTJ) Williams listened and put some of theese melodies into the prequels. He took idead from the OT into the prequels. It's fun to try to pick them out.

    Another one I noticed: ATS @ 5:10 in Endor II
  2. Lars_Muul Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    It's true, The dark side beckons does have qualities of ATS. Quite fitting, since what's happening is a result of Anakin's and Padmé's love story.
    And that does sound like some kind of variation of DOTF. Cool :cool:



    John Williams is the god of film music
    /LM
  3. The-Tennis-Ball-Kid Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2004
    star 3
    I sorta heard DOTF, but can't pick out ATS, I guess I'll have to liosten to it more. ;)

    Another place in the OT you can hear DOTF is "The Training of a Jedi Knight"(ESB 1:12 IIRC) about :20 in. Cool stuff!



    ttbk
  4. Lars_Muul Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    I still don't understand what "IIRC" means. Please explain.



    Star Wars is full of music
    /LM
  5. The-Tennis-Ball-Kid Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2004
    star 3
    IIRC it means: "If I recall correctly"


    And there you have it....


    ttbk
  6. General Kenobi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 1998
    star 6
    Honestly, those melodies aren't there. There's a little woodwind riff in "Training Of A Jedi Knight" that has a similar rhythm, but you can't say it's DOTF.

    There does seem to be some connection between "The Dark Side Beckons" and ATS or the Emperor's Theme. I think JW uses similar keys (like g-minor) and note structures (triad) to link themes and even "non-thematic" score (listen to the score in AOTC when Anakin visits Palpatine in his office).
  7. Lars_Muul Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    Aha! Thanks :)

    Nope, couldn't hear it. Yoda's theme was all that I heard.
    BUT: The clash of lightsabers has a haunting rendition of DOTF, 0:30 into the track.



    Darth Vader is evil
    /LM
  8. The-Tennis-Ball-Kid Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2004
    star 3
    Of course they probably aren't really there, GK, but it sure is fun trying to find them. :D



    ttbk
  9. General Kenobi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 1998
    star 6
    BUT: The clash of lightsabers has a haunting rendition of DOTF, 0:30 into the track.

    What on earth are you listening to? There's no DOTF in the OT scores.
  10. Lars_Muul Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    *sigh* I know, but listen to the track and you'll see what I mean. I thought everybody knew about that one. It's so similar to DOTF it's creepy!



    Williams is a master at reusing old cues
    /LM
  11. Sithman Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 1999
    star 7
    So I just listened to the original trilogy "Duel of the Fates" cues that you guys mentioned, and you know what?





    There is no DOTF in the original trilogy. Sorry.
  12. Lars_Muul Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    Are you telling me that "The clash of lightsabers" does not sound like DOTF after 30 seconds?
    Please! Why are you guys being so negative?



    Star Wars fans are mean
    /LM
  13. General Kenobi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 1998
    star 6
    Are you telling me that "The clash of lightsabers" does not sound like DOTF after 30 seconds? \

    Exactly.


    Please! Why are you guys being so negative?

    If you said that you thought the sky was green and the grass was blue, and I said "no, you're wrong", would you consider that being negative?

    ;)
  14. Lars_Muul Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    No, that would mean I was insane. If you do not think that the music is very similar to DOTF 30 seconds into "The clash of lightsabers" though, I say YOU are insane.
    I'm serious! It's that very first statement of the DOTF theme, in D minor IIRC( ;)): F, F, G, E. Long notes, but very distinct(especially the G).
    I can't believe you're not hearing it!



    My hearing is excellent
    /LM
  15. EndorRebelScum Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 30, 2004
    star 3
    In The Clash of Lightsabers, I can hear a little DOTF, and then strangely, I can here the music from the EP 3 Teaser! Lol.
  16. Sithman Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 1999
    star 7
    My roommate says crazy things like this. He also smokes weed.
  17. Cerrabore Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 4
    Please, stop over-analyzing. There are only twelve tones in the scale. Possibilities are limited. The similarities you note are superficial.
  18. Charth_Maul Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 5, 2001
    star 4
  19. Lars_Muul Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    I do not think that it's actually DOTF. All I'm saying is that this part of the track sounds like it. VERY MUCH like it.
    So like it, in fact, that I think it's a nice echo from the PT.



    Which fate will Luke choose?
    /LM
  20. EndorRebelScum Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 30, 2004
    star 3
    But my point is that Williams prob. used Inspiration from the OT for the new music. Not copy the songs, but to find those little melodies you only hear once, and make them the themes of the PT.
  21. General Kenobi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 1998
    star 6
    But my point is that Williams prob. used Inspiration from the OT for the new music. Not copy the songs, but to find those little melodies you only hear once, and make them the themes of the PT.

    I don't think so.
  22. Lars_Muul Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    Now that's what I mean with negative. You just say "I don't think so" and nothing more.
    Maybe I'm being uber-sensitive here, but it just sounds so harsh to me.

    I agree, Williams may very well have used certain cues from the OT to develop new themes for the PT. It's not probable, but it's possible.



    Star Wars is a grand symphony
    /LM
  23. General Kenobi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 1998
    star 6
    Show me one piece of evidence that John Williams said he took a phrase from non-thematic OT score and made it into DOTF or ATS.

    Until then, I see no reason to believe in "musical ghosts".
  24. Lars_Muul Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    I never said that Williams has actually done it, all I said was that it's possible.



    What's with people these days?
    /LM
  25. Obi_Frans Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2003
    star 4
    Show me one piece of evidence that John Williams said he took a phrase from non-thematic OT score and made it into DOTF or ATS

    He has, more than once, spoken on musically bridging the gap between the PT and the OT.

    In the case of Anakins theme he even blatantly stated that it contains the DV theme played backwards, then theres the end fanfare of TPM which is the Emperors theme sung by children etc.

    Is it really that farfetched to think that he might've found DotF or AtS somewhere in his own old works for Star Wars?
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