The Battle of Endor I

Discussion in 'Star Wars And Film Music' started by EndorRebelScum, Feb 9, 2005.

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  1. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    It is not a stretch. The beginning of the DOTF melody is there. I have heard it ever since the release of TPM. It's no stretch to say that it works as a brief statement of DOTF.



    Star Wars is a saga
    Watch and believe

    /LM
  2. Cerrabore Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 4
    Perhaps some musical education would help hear. I mentioned there is a twelve-tone scale. That means...

    1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12

    That's how many different notes there are. Tone 13 is tone 1 up an octave - the same note. Now, with only twelve notes, the possibilities for similarity are ENDLESS. Take this, for example:

    http://www.freewebs.com/cerrabore/tone.mid

    What is it? The first two notes of Across the Stars? The fifth and sixth notes of the Imperial March? The second and third notes of the Emperor's theme?

    None. It's just 1-b3, or 6-1. A very basic progression of notes. Now, if you take this principle and apply it to more complex pieces...fully orchestrated compositions...perhaps you'll see that the ATS/DotF, etc. symbolism is coincidental.

    Besides, John Williams doesn't have the best memory. He once said Across the Stars was the first love theme for Star Wars. He's also said he doesn't listen to his own scores very often - probably only in conducting concerts.
  3. Vaderbait Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2001
    star 6
    Their point is that something that sounds like it is in ESB. Meaning, after TPM came out, the short pieces of music they heard reminded them of DOTF.

    I don't see why everyone has to shoot it down when it's entirely opinion?
  4. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    Thank you, Vaderbait.

    Don't insult my intelligence, Cerrabore. I am a well educated musician, so I know full well that the possibilities of the 12 tone scale are endless.
    I also happen to have a good musical ear. Not to brag, but to make a point: I do not grasp at straws.
    Whether you can hear it or not, a musical phrase which sounds just like the first phrase of the DOTF theme is distinctly playing at one point in The clash of lightsabers.
    Coincidence? Yes, in all likelyhood. But I still call it a statement of DOTF, because it is in a Star Wars movie.



    Sometimes, coincidences are really cool
    /LM
  5. Sithman Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 1999
    star 7
    "Their point is that something that sounds like it is in ESB. Meaning, after TPM came out, the short pieces of music they heard reminded them of DOTF."


    Hold on. If that's all we're arguing about, then I don't disagree. The little cues in Clash of Lightsabers or The Dark Side Beckons do indeed sort of sound like DOTF and ATS. I can hear similarities if I really listen.

    However, what Lars and other people have been arguing is that Johnny Williams took those minor OT cues and specifically used them to create the said PT themes-- that he used them as inspiration for DOTF and ATS

    That is what I most definitely disagree with.
  6. EndorRebelScum Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 30, 2004
    star 3
    But no one was stating that in the first place.
  7. Sithman Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 1999
    star 7
    Uh huh. Nobody besides you, right? Here is your opening post in the thread:

    "My Point is that I found it cool, that...Williams listened and put some of theese melodies into the prequels. He took idead from the OT into the prequels."


    I'm confused now. Are you claiming to be a liar, or that Williams supposedly used these little OT cues, created major themes out of them, and put them in the prequels?

    Because it's one or the other.
  8. EndorRebelScum Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 30, 2004
    star 3
    Im saying that it was cool that there are those instances that influenced the pt soundtrack
  9. General Kenobi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 1998
    star 6
    ERS, you have just contradicted yourself.
  10. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    I'm afraid you will have to explain exactly what it is you mean, ERS, because you're saying that themes in the PT were inspired by cues in the OT, while at the same time claiming that that's not what you meant.

    I never said that JW definitely took inspiration from the OT in creating those themes, though. I said that it's possible, but not probable.
    Which means: I don't think he did it, but I would not be terribly surprised if he said that he did. I wouldn't go "WHAT?!!", but "Really? Cool! :cool:".
    At least concerning DOTF.



    Themes - they are many
    /LM
  11. EndorRebelScum Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 30, 2004
    star 3
    Hey, I guess I'll put this in here, but I just noticed this: Around 57 minuted into TPM, when Sebulba is ripping the thing off Anakin's pod (Cue Is Entitled " Sebulba's Dirty Hand/Qui-Gon's Pep Talk") Did anyone else notice that it is Clash of the Lightsabers playing?
  12. Cerrabore Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 4
    It must be symbolism - Sebulba is the PT parallel of Darth Vader!
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