FF:WA The Battlestar Galactica speculation thread

...For those of us who haven't been bothered enough to watch this show at its brutal witching-hour timeslot and just got the whole series out on DVD. Or, as in my case, watched several episodes with Kartanym, got excited with the show, and went and rented parts of the series out.

(And Sith_Magician, you were right. BSG c. 2003 >= BSG c. 1980.)

One of the questions I had with series 1 and 2 was, When are they going to actually start looking for Earth instead of cruising round the remains of the 12 Colonies? I haven't seen the actual episode when the Colonials discover the positions of their constellations as seen from Earth, but riddle me this: surely somebody with a navcomp/starmap and a telescope (or even a pair of freakin' binoculars) must've been looking out a window somewhere to try and find a match?

I suspect trepidation among the writers of the series about starting the actual voyage towards Earth. After all, it was the "planet of the week" syndrome that seemed to kill the original BSG...and unlike 'Voyager', this universe seems to be pretty sparsely populated, if it's populated at all, so there's less opportunity (methinks) for new plot arcs or new encounters. Anyone think they'll throw an alien race other than the Cylons in at some point? It'd be delightful to catch, say, a three-way fight between the battlestars, basestars, and, say, a couple of flying saucers a la the Grays from the X-Files, but that's a wild idea.

I also think the frustration that bleeds from this point is also the same frustration that will haunt me throughout the beginning of season 3. I suspect half the season will be devoted to a "Helo's Tale"-style splitting of the story between Galactica and New Caprica, and if anything the commencement of the voyage towards Earth will probably occupy only a couple of episodes right at the end of the season.

Why, you ask?

Let's consider the resources. Starting with cap ships. Colonials 2, Cylons 5 (by my count during the finale). Pegasus was close to getting its ass whipped during "The Captain's Hand" taking on 3 battlestars, though it crippled one in the process. Galactica itself is half the size of Pegasus. Not to mention they're each down to less than half crew and can hardly field a patrol, let alone a combat air patrol.

Next, manpower. Adama's made it clear he's going back to New Caprica to pick the people up. But there's a good army of centurions on the surface and Christ knows how many skinfaces; and presumably we'll see the populace enslaved rather than annihilated, in work camps/farms/whatever. Pretty much the whole civilian fleet is with Adama, bar Colonial One I think. I *think* the civilian fleet is able to land, but either way that's a massive pickup operation. Adama can't use Raptors to transport 50,000-odd people off the surface in a hit-and-run operation. That means he has to commit to battle and defeat the Cylon fleet in space and eliminate most, if not all the Cylon presence on the ground ... and do so before reinforcements arrive from either the Cylon homeworld or the 12 Colonies.

Working out and plotting a plan to accomplish that involves a good half a series or more to overcome the various obstacles in the way. Which is frustrating. Get to Earth, dammit! Don't flame out like the original series did!

So how do we think he'll do it? For my part, I suspect the Sharon/Eight who was imprisoned on Galactica (not Adama's assassin; the other one) will have a lot to do with it. She generated a computer virus that managed to knock out hundreds of Cylon fighters in one pulse. We'd have to presume the Cylons captured by the Colonials are still under arrest as at the end of series 2. I suspect they're still on board the Galactica; can't see why Adama would risk them being on the surface. Adama hasn't got the manpower or the firepower to take on the Cylon fleet, even if he was at full power. I think Adama will start using the Pegasus's resources to try and computerise the ship's systems so he can run it more efficiently without crew

 

That was an awful lot of starting points for a discussion!

Anyway, just so you know, sci-fi.com has been screening "webisodes" of the resistance on New Caprica. For some reason foreign IPs are blocked, but anyone with a computer should know what to do about that.

A lot of questiuons remain for me in the aftermath of Season 2, such as the whereabouts of one Tom Zarek. I'm sure he'd be prominent in any resistance of the Cylons, no matter which side he picked...

Also looking forward to more scenes with the "downloaded" 6 and Baltar, it would be interesting for certain people to learn she (Or a version of her) has been in his head all this time.


Rescue plans for those on the surface? Well, if I was in charge and willing to take an acceptable rate of loss. I'd be looking at high speed crashing one of those ships into the main part of the Cylon popualtion on the planet with a timed attack on the remaining force.

Be interesting to see how that operation actually pans out.

I enjoyed many of the cut aways to Helo on Caprica in the first season, it got a little hard to take at one point where there were three groups being cut between, but it helped with the claustrophobic nature of the series being all set on starships that would have happened otherwise.

As for burning out, I really don't think so. I had the oppurtunity to ask someone late last year about this show's longevity, and he said that the producer, Ronald D. Moore, who has been responsible for the resurgence on TV of Star Trek since Next Generation, envisions this show with the same scope and has every intention of doing 7 years of this as well.

Anyway, it's been great to see what they've done with this, and rather than just being a remake they've really hit a stride and found their own place. It's now become it's own series rather than just trying to be re-marketed to a new audience.

 

Hmm...

I'll start with the very lovely, very talented President, and former scientist, Baltar. I think one of the earlier episodes of season 2 you may have missed, Sainty, had a few scenes in which Six, supposedly in Baltar's head, turns the tables on him and convinces the good doctor that he's in fact going crazy, and that there's no chip in his head at all. To his surprise, and mine originally, there isn't a chip following a quick brain scan. Up until the Downloaded episode, I thought he really was going nuts, but the fact that Six herself has illusions of Baltar suggests that, perhaps, there's more to Batlar then meets the eye. Why would a human being be able to see something so vividly, and interact with it, when there's no possible reason for it to exist besides pure crazy? Does this mean Six is just as nuts? I get the feeling that Season 3 will explore this 'connection' much further.

The resistance movement will be interesting to watch. The webisodes suggest that there isn't a 'slave movement', since Sharon and Six are the unofficial leaders of the Cylons, but there have been restrictions placed on the human colony, and as long as they follow those rules, no blood is spilt. I've seen a few of the trailers for 3.0, and by all accounts, there will be a few ground battles as the resistance picks up the pace.

I agree with one particular point. Since the original BSG had many other races during the series' run, I'd be surprised if none of them appear eventually in the future. Take your mind back to SG-1, if you will, and how they've shifted focus from the Go'uld and the Ancestors to a new enemy race over the last few seasons. There's no reason why the BSG crew can't do the same here, and it would be especially interesting if and when the fleet continue their journey to Earth with the Cylons in tow. As you pointed out, with only two Battlestars and a reduced crew, there isn't much hope for them if they continue to be raided by the Cylons, who have a neverending supply. The thing is, if either stumble across another race, perhaps even more powerful, the balance could completly shift. Imagine an alliance, or worse, a three way struggle for freedom, between the Humans, Cylons and another species. That would add plenty of spice to the franchise, much as it did during the middle years of SG-1, providing plenty of new material in the meantime (let alone the introduction of Atlantis).

The rescue theory is a good one. The Sharon aboard Galactica could be a huge advantage in the scheme of things, and the virus is a worthwhile tactic. But I doubt the writers would allow them to get away with it that easily, there's always a catch to every tale. Besides, that would be too obvious. She will be a factor though, no doubts there. However, I get the feeling 8 will be the difference this time. Her alliance with the original Sharon on New Caprica could make or break the Human's chances of survival.

If anything, season 3 will be filled with plenty of character development. We did, after all, miss an entire year of their lives. Two married couples, a newborn child for the Chief, Adama Jr's command of Pegasus. It was such a drastic change, just in that one hour of the finale, but it left the writers with so much potential for the new season to come. Relationships have changed and, in most cases, characters have matured from what we remember them to be.

By the way, I'm not sure about either of you, but the nuclear explosion scene during the finale was stunning. Hell, they threw a chunk of metal into the 'invisible' camera. That's the kind of touches I appreciate the most, and I hope to see plenty more to come.

Saint, next time I'm around your place, remind me to bring you a CD of the webisodes

 

I'll have to watch the last few again before season 3 starts. There's so much to take in with the series it's easy to lose track if you haven't seen if for a while. As SM said it's not a remake and I'm glad it's not. Just enough nods to the original series to make us feel all nostalgic but a totally different style. I love the 'old' cylon you could see in the museum during the pilot.
It's already gone more than the 1 1/2 seasons of the original (probably because the second season of the original sucked big time). It's not like most of the sci-fi shows like SG1 and startrek etc where you have to suspend an awful lot of belief to enjoy the show. It's probably the most believable and well written series currently on IMHO. In that respect it reminds me a little of Babylon 5 which I thought was better scripted and cast than most shows. I just hope battlestar doesn have a disappointing ending like B5 did.

 

A lot of questiuons remain for me in the aftermath of Season 2, such as the whereabouts of one Tom Zarek. I'm sure he'd be prominent in any resistance of the Cylons, no matter which side he picked...

It would not surprise me if he takes the Presidency at some stage in the future. Very evil.

Rescue plans for those on the surface? Well, if I was in charge and willing to take an acceptable rate of loss. I'd be looking at high speed crashing one of those ships into the main part of the Cylon popualtion on the planet with a timed attack on the remaining force.

Be interesting to see how that operation actually pans out.

It should be a good one...can't see Adama bearing to lose even one Colonial, given every one that's lost is another human bloodline gone for all time...and the trick is, how do you get a cap ship into the atmosphere under Cylon radar/"tradis" and without it burning up at high speed? I suppose there's always Colonial One, of course...

As for burning out, I really don't think so. I had the oppurtunity to ask someone late last year about this show's longevity, and he said that the producer, Ronald D. Moore, who has been responsible for the resurgence on TV of Star Trek since Next Generation, envisions this show with the same scope and has every intention of doing 7 years of this as well.

I'm sure they've got a long term plan, and let's be clear, I love the series a lot...I guess they've got some long term plot arcs that will be just as interesting as the hunt for Earth. It's just that the fundamental dramatic question of the series is the search for Earth--it's restated at the beginning of every episode, and it's the main thing that connects the people on BSG with us as viewers, the idea that they're humans as well, and they're looking for us. That needs some really good stories or plot arcs to keep the viewers interested. And there's always the tremendous risk that the show'll get canned before they've made it to Earth...which would be even more frustrating than the original series. Maybe I need to go back and take a look at 'Voyager' to see how they handled it, since the concept was similar, albeit with a more populated universe...

By the way, I'm not sure about either of you, but the nuclear explosion scene during the finale was stunning. Hell, they threw a chunk of metal into the 'invisible' camera. That's the kind of touches I appreciate the most, and I hope to see plenty more to come.

I like the way they've done the special effects in this show, and normally I'm not a big fan of 'smooth' ships a la Bab 5. The camera shake during CGI sequences is a very effective aid to suspension of disbelief (borrowed from Firefly, wasn't it?). All up it's a very gritty, dark vision, and it really works.

Up until the Downloaded episode, I thought he really was going nuts, but the fact that Six herself has illusions of Baltar suggests that, perhaps, there's more to Batlar then meets the eye. Why would a human being be able to see something so vividly, and interact with it, when there's no possible reason for it to exist besides pure crazy? Does this mean Six is just as nuts? I get the feeling that Season 3 will explore this 'connection' much further.

Hmm. Is Baltar a powerful telepath? Charles Xavier with a better haircut, perhaps? The interesting thing about the two 'holograms' is that they seem to be subtly (or not so subtly) pushing the Cylon and human causes respectively; Baltar's 'hologram' seems to act a lot more moral than his flesh-and-blood counterpart, while Caprica Six's 'hologram' is obviously committed to the Cylon cause in counterdistinction to her actual form. Caprica Six was killed in the initial Cylon attack, while Baltar survived (I'm still not sure how that happened). Was there some transference of parts of their two psyches because of their emotional connection? If so, who was unconsciously responsible? The Cylons aren't telepathic as far as we can see, but maybe Baltar's brilliance is partly intuitive because of latent telepat

 

That would explain the connection alright, and it brings up some interesting quetions regarding the true meaning behind Baltar's connection to the Cylons. They have a plan, as the show constantly suggests, but perhaps that plan hasn't worked its magic yet.

And yes, the visual style originally came from Firefly. It's the same effects studio, I believe.

 

Yeah, what is the Plan, I wonder? Here's my theory: the Cylons themselves are looking for Earth, but need humanity to find it for them. There's an old Kalahari bushman's trick: when you're looking for water, catch a monkey, feed it some salt, and leave it tied up for a while. When you release it, that monkey will go straight for water. The Cylons evolved, but they aren't human; maybe there was something special about the Arrow of Apollo and the Tomb of Athena that only a human could find or use. Okay, it doesn't quite fit with some elements of the overall story, but hypothesis: the Cylons have reached the endpoint of their evolution thus far. In order to progress, they've evaluated that they need the 'perspective', whether physical, spiritual, or technological, of the 13th tribe. Unfortunately, since the Cylons aren't human, they can't access the keys that the Lords of Kobol, or even the 13th tribe, left behind as markers for Earth's location. Earth and Kobol themselves are unknown, myths, to the 12 Colonies. The Cylons can't make a polite request, and it's unlikely that any person would consciously remember or know the way to Earth. So how do they find it?

Answer: they bring in 'destiny' early. Or, in a more mundane sense, create the preconditions for a basic Colonial "survival imperative" to kick in. You bring on an apocalypse (remember Six constantly spouting on that "This has all happened before, and it will happen again?") and allow the genetic/behavioural/spiritual triggers grounded into every human being to open the way to Earth--to force the prophecy into action, and then follow the trail. Feed the monkey some salt, and see where it runs to.

In other words, I think the Cylons meant for humanity to find the way to Earth. After all, the sleeper agents aren't trying to actively destroy the fleet all the time; in some respects they're supporting human activities. They've had a good two years to cause some major damage to the fleet. It's now conceded in Cylon society that the destruction of the 12 Colonies was an error, and that error was on spiritual grounds--but this doesn't interfere with the hypothesis that the Cylons are simply shadowing the human fleet in the hope that they'll find their way to Earth.

This actually finds support in the Cylons enslaving humans rather than wiping them out. "If you offer no resistance you'll not be harmed" runs counter to the survival imperative. The Cylons want humanity to get back on the road towards Earth.

The other main support I find for this theory is the cryptic line from the first season, when a Cylon agent is being interrogated/tortured by Starbuck. Basically his final words to Starbuck are "You're going to find Kobol. And it's going to lead you to Earth." Assuming the Cylon was still continuing his mission at that stage, what other purpose could that assertion have had? I doubt it was emotion; and Starbuck wasn't much of a believer in the mythology at that point.

Now, the only hole I can see in it is the hologram Six's obssession with creating the human/Cylon child, and all this idea that it's the way of the future. But I don't think hologram Six's agenda is actually for the Cylons as such; I think there's another supernatural force at work there. My impression of the predominant Cylon view was that a hybrid was an abomination; remember, none of the Cylons actually know of Hera's existence yet. I don't think the Cylons are planning on creating a human/Cylon hybrid; they just wiped out the genetic stock for such an enterprise. Doesn't sound like the thinking of a machine to me. My impression of the Cylons is that they regard humanity as a broken limb in the chain of evolution (with the Cylons, of course, being the True Vine). It's established that extermination is no longer the Cylon aim--which means it was a part of the previous plan, and not the Plan. I think the eradication of much of humanity was a necessary part of the plan, but it isn't the final objective of itself.

All this and I've on

 

Haha, yeah me too

Interesting theory. I think you're on the right track, by far it's the best way to consider all the facts before us up to now. The two things to remember are 1) We haven't seen all of the Cylon human forms as yet, and I'm almost certain a main character will be revealed as one in the future, and 2) We don't know the true purpose of the hologram 6, as I mentioned before.

The other thing I'd point out is that Cylon that Starbuck interrogated re-appeared for a brief moment at the end of that finale. Clearly he has more to say on what her role in all this is, which makes me wonder whether each Cylon has a particular Human to push along the road. 12 seems to crop up alot. Would you consider there being 12 'main' characters?

 

Not as such, although I see your logic: the 'cleric' who counselled the Chief; the Cylon agent with Starbuck; 6 with Baltar; an 8 with Adama (albeit that she shot him). I think the 8 said, when Baltar provoked Sharon's Cylon side to come out, that there were only eight Cylon agents left in the whole fleet, which would seem to indicate a total of 9 to begin with (counting Sharon herself and Starbuck's agent who was flushed out the airlock).

Besides, it stretches credulity that the Cylons could calculate exactly who'd live out of the holocaust, who'd die, and who'd have access to a ship when the bombs started to fall. Sharon's knowledge clearly comes from some kind of wireless network that not only links a Cylon with their homeworld or resurrection ship, but also makes them aware of the presence of other Cylons to a very limited range (it's implied that the Sharon/8 knew that the 'Caprica cleric' Cylon was among the group rescued, but chose not to say anything.)

 

I missed heaps of season 1 and saw the last few at the beginning and a few at the end of season, so I have no idea whats going on.. when's season 3 coming out?

Apparently theres some kind of trailer for battlestar galactica coming out on Xbox live for US customers only (well, make yourself a new profile with US as the area and it should allow you to download it). Starts Wed, ends next Friday.

"...Other downloads will feature picture packs and themes for Alan Wake, Fable 2, Mass Effect and Forza 2 and a free picture pack, theme, and exclusive scene from the upcoming Battlestar Galactica season premier (for US only)."

 

US fans only can download that one, sadly. But the webisodes more then make up for it.

Season 3 starts in October. Oh, and an interesting trivia fact: Season 2's DVD releases were split in two for the US, part two having just released. We actually recieved the full season two months before they did, as did the UK so I believe, yet we're behind in terms of TV telecasts. Weird

 

Create a profile with a US location, it will allow you to see what they see.. Although, you're limited to 2-3 starter accounts per 360 where it will give you the 1 month free live gold(from what I'm told), it goes by serial number of the unit. You just need a valid address.

I'm going to give it a go when I get in this evening..

 

I'll find out whether any of that content will be available to Silver Live subscribers, which is free, and if do I might just make that US account and see what happens.

 

whoa! this is a thread i so shouldnt have clicked on.. lol *head explodes*

never watched an episode... *hides*

 

Hmm ... I'm starting to wonder whether a marathon weekend should be planned

 

Jeez ... all season 1 and season 2 in one weekend?

*head explodes*

 

Well maybe not 'all' of the episodes, although every one of them deserves to be seen a second time. And probably not over just one weekend either lol

 

Finally got round to watching the original miniseries, "Home" parts 1 and 2, and "The Farm". As a result some of my theories have changed.

First, on my count, there are only 5 more Cylon models that we've yet to see. We've seen Six, Sharon/Eight, Lucy Lawless's character, "Blue Suit" who was with the Cylons at the end of Season 2, the "Cleric" who consulted the Chief; Starbuck's Cylon; and the black doctor who treated Starbuck on "The Farm". Six says there are twelve models, in the miniseries--the 'robotic' Cylons seem to be separate from the others (I'd love to see one of the older Centurions in working order just for nostalgia's sake )

Second, "The Farm" and "Final Cut" slightly alters my view of the Cylons' plan. They can't have children, and so they were harvesting what was left of the human female population to gather the necessary genetic material and propagate their species. Sharon/8's pregnancy is viewed as a blessed event, a miracle to the Cylons. The view is that love was the missing factor in Cylon procreation (hokey to the extreme, but there you go...) This still leaves intact the idea the Cylons are looking for Earth, for some kind of fulfillment. The one note of disquiet I have is Sharon/8's statement that "we know more about your religion than you do." Is there another sacred text floating around out there, perhaps?

Third, "Home". It reconfirms my view that only humans could access the vision inside the Temple of Athena. There was nothing special about fitting the Arrow to Saggitaron's bow, so one presumes the Temple has some kind of device--maybe a DNA code-reader, who knows--to determine whether there are humans inside the Temple, and therefore activate. It also clarifies the nature of the voyage; Adama and the others don't know the precise location of Earth, but they do know the general direction they're headed in--towards a nebula of some kind. Lee notes that they have a direction to head in, inside the Temple of Athena.

One question: assuming the Galactica reaches Earth, and assuming it doesn't just end the whole series on a final shot of the battlestar heading towards earth orbit, what time period do people think it's going to reach Earth in? Present day? Far future? The past, even?

If it's the present day, I strongly suspect there'll be an episode (say in about 3-4 seasons' time) about certain "electromagnetic signals" being received--which will probably turn out, a la Contact, to be Earth's first TV signals, still heading on their merry way across the universe, thus providing the final 'homing beacon' for Earth. I wonder if they'll go as geek as to calculate out the Galactica's precise distance from Earth given the speed of light and the distance Earth's TV signals would have crossed in the fifty-odd years since their initial transmission... and one can envision the final run to Earth becoming a race, seeing as the Cylons will presumably be able to detect the same thing.

 

I don't think the Earth in the series will be in the present day time period.

There's too many consistencies in military rank names, ship names (Colonial One/Air Force One) that having it set in our modern day would be far, far too coincidental.

I'd say it's far in our past, and perhaps a bit of HitchHiker's Guide to the Galaxy "cave man" replacing going on.

 

In the orignal (1980ish) series, when they reached our solar system it was around the time of the moon landing. The later (crappy) season 2 was contemporary (80s).
I expect that in the new series they'd get to earth eventually. I won't speculate on what it would be like though since the show has so far proven to be pretty unpredictable which I think is a good thing.

 

This, I like. Hence why I'd consider the BSG timeline to be, in relation to our own, within the future.

The past I can understand, as SM mentioned, but I'm thinking along the lines of Stargate here. In that series (and more specifically the movie) Earth was primative when the ancients and the Gou'ld (might have spelt that wrong) discovered it. Following that, most of the population was sent to other planets across the galaxy via the created Stargate system, mainly as slaves. Earth, however, is left behind. Flash forward to I think the 1950's when the Stargate is uncovered in Egypt, and so on and so forth.

BSG could follow a very similar style. For one reason or another, the humans of Earth left the planet and 'evolved' into those of Caprica, etc. The thing that tips me off is when the President relates the star signs to those of Earth. If, indeed, the Earth in this timeline is primative, then surely star signs wouldn't have existed? That, among many other things (besides the technology) suggests to me that it is the Earth of the future they are searching for.

 

Hmm...the battlestar arriving in the future? Perhaps Earth has become a plain old "wildlife sanctuary", where humanity's moved off the world altogether?

That'd be kind of cool. Last episode. Galactica's at Earth. No haven, no 13th tribe, no civilisation left, no other humans. The massed Cylon fleet approaches. Galactica gets ready for her last stand...gets blasted...down to half strength and dying...

When a new group of signals jumps into the system. Lots of signals. Bristling with future technology and superior weaponry. Earth's own 'starfleet', summoned back on the breach into the system of the Galactica or the Cylons.

On the other hand, if it's in the far future, you'd have to explain how the Galactica could breeze its way through a 'federation' of human-colonised solar systems without being detected by our descendants...

Hmm.

 

Michael, remember when we were speculating what happened at the start of season 3? You were right

 

Hmm. I have no torrent, so I'll just have to wiki it for the synopsis ...

On that last point about when the Galactica might arrive and SG-1 and stuff, I think the impression they were trying to leave in "Home" was that the 12 star signs are actually hidden inside the columns at Stonehenge, or some other circle of standing stones. The surrounds of the inside of Athena's temple imply the marker to Earth is on a green field somewhere... hmmm.

 

Do you mean to tell me that the entire race of humans in the show are direct relations of the Scots?!