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PT The Beginning episode 1

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by fett 4, Feb 7, 2013.

  1. fett 4

    fett 4 Force Ghost star 5

    Jan 2, 2000
    Found the original ideas for episode 1 and just wondered what people thought whether they prefered it or prefered what we saw in TPM.
    Myself this sounds a much better film than TPM and without the poop jokes too.
    whostheBossk and KilroyMcFadden like this.
  2. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Jul 20, 2005
    I prefer the version we got -- by a country mile.

    Which isn't to say there aren't some neat ideas in that earlier draft/synopsis. There are. This is George Lucas we're talking about.

    Oh, wait. This is George Lucas we're talking about. Excuse my fanboy impertinence. Feel free to bash away.
  3. Darth Dominikkus

    Darth Dominikkus Jedi Knight star 3

    Apr 5, 2013
    I kind of enjoy the film that Lucas made, not the one in the link you gave us. There's too much conflict in that text that would mess with the following two sequels. I appreciate TPM the way it was released.
    Darth Chiznuk and Seagoat like this.
  4. Jcuk

    Jcuk Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Mar 16, 2013
    Having just read it, I'd have preferred this version.
  5. SithStarSlayer

    SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Oct 23, 2003
    I can't believe you missed Zombie's work during the PT's production.
  6. mes520

    mes520 Jedi Master star 4

    Nov 3, 2012
    There are some things in there I like
  7. GGrievous

    GGrievous Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Nov 6, 2005
    I really like the idea of Obi-Wan being the central character and recruited Anakin. (Imo Anakin should've been a teenage boy instead of a nine year old.)

    The idea of "specism" and racial wars is a pretty good idea from Lucas as well. I would've liked to see racial tensions between the Naboo and Gungans in the final film.
    kubricklynch likes this.
  8. OldSchoolFan

    OldSchoolFan Jedi Padawan star 1

    Apr 6, 2013
    That was not too bad a read, I'd have liked to have seen this version on screen, Obi Wan seems a more central, important character in this unlike the sidekick to Qui Gon he ended up in the filmed version.
  9. Jedi_Ford_Prefect

    Jedi_Ford_Prefect Jedi Master star 4

    Jun 9, 2003
    There are one or two ideas in this treatment which might've been nice in the finished film-- a more mature Jar Jar maybe, an older Anakin (from the sound of it) perhaps. But everything else strikes me as woefully underdeveloped in comparison to what we have. The politics being simplified in the finished movie is very much appreciated. There's a redundancy to the battles in the later portion that sounds rather tedious.

    Most of all, the character of Qui-Gon seems terribly irrelevant to the story here, before being fleshed out as he was in the film to occupy Obi-Wan's role. In this draft, it feels like he's just there to have someone die at the end. And Obi-Wan's prominence makes for some awkward stuff like Padme's little crush on him-- yeah, no thanks.

    So, yeah. A cool look at the creative process, but for every one or two ideas present here that I'd like to have seen in the finished film, there's a dozen or so that just don't work at all.
  10. SlashMan

    SlashMan Jedi Master star 4

    Feb 5, 2012
    Lucas is a genius, but sometimes the input of others forces him to second guess himself. Regardless, many plot elements were refined for the final film, the most important being Qui-Gon's shift to the central character. While I believe Lucas always wanted to make a character like Qui-Gon, the original of him being a Jedi in his 60s who didn't do much wasn't as interesting.

    The themes of racism are still in the final film, just made more subtle.
  11. Jedi_Ford_Prefect

    Jedi_Ford_Prefect Jedi Master star 4

    Jun 9, 2003
    To me, it's the fact that Qui-Gon only comes into the story in the third act, and shortly thereafter dies, that makes this draft inferior by itself. Qui-Gon's an irrelevant figure here, someone who only serves the "death of a mentor" archetype, with no real definition besides that. It would've been more meaningful to have an intended major long-term character like Yoda or Windu accompany Obi-Wan to Naboo at the end, but then you'd have to get rid of the death, and make the stakes of the film a little less meaningful. Lucas made the right call by beefing up Qui-Gon, and making him a character you truly get to know and love before he's ripped away.
    Darth Chiznuk likes this.
  12. Garrett Atkins

    Garrett Atkins Jedi Knight star 4

    Feb 11, 2013
    Or maybe make him a newly knighted Obi-Wan?
  13. SlashMan

    SlashMan Jedi Master star 4

    Feb 5, 2012
    That, and the fact that Lucas may or may not have planned Qui-Gon's critical role with becoming one with the Force at this point. Qui-Gon seemed like the right character to carry the torch.
    Darth Chiznuk likes this.
  14. Darth Dominikkus

    Darth Dominikkus Jedi Knight star 3

    Apr 5, 2013
    I agree with SlashMan, I feel like George already had this idea that Qui Gon should be the Jedi that is responsible for carrying this 'torch' of responsibility with the force. I liked the way it was, Qui Gon was a perfect fit.
  15. Jedi_Ford_Prefect

    Jedi_Ford_Prefect Jedi Master star 4

    Jun 9, 2003
    Obi-Wan being central in this draft is one of the chief problems, I feel. I prefer seeing him grow from his padawan status in the final film, and I vastly prefer not having him become some object of a crush from Padme, thus creating a tacky and predictable love triangle.

    In fact, Obi-Wan's youth in the story underlines something that was needed and he couldn't fill-- a father figure role. Alec Guiness was perfect for that in the OT, but if you're going to have Obi-Wan at an age between 20 and 30, he doesn't really fit the same paternal figure. As such, you really do need an additional, older Jedi figure to provide that aspect, and if you're going to have the traditional father-figure mentor, it doesn't make sense to only introduce him more than halfway into the story. Qui-Gon wasn't just necessary-- from a storytelling perspective, he was almost inevitable.
    Darth Chiznuk and Arawn_Fenn like this.
  16. Skelter

    Skelter Jedi Padawan star 1

    Oct 31, 2012
    I would have loved to see this. It's better than we got. Obi-one finding Anakin. and him being the one to bring him to the council falls more in line with what Kenobi said in ROTJ..
    The duel between Maul and Kenobi sounds so much better as well...Lucas, why did you do this?? **** you!! lol
  17. topgoalscorer_no11

    topgoalscorer_no11 Jedi Master star 3

    Jul 23, 2001
    I think one of the biggest missteps in the prequels was not having Obi-Wan as the slightly older, more central character he was in this draft.

    The central dynamic between Obi-Wan and Anakin should have been the main focus of the prequels.

    In the finished films they spend no time together in Episode I, and are separated for most of Episodes II and III.

    By RotS, we're reduced to awful lines of dialogue desperately scrambling to make up for the gaps in this relationship:
    'I have looked after you since you were a small boy..' etc. The audience, let alone Anakin, shouldn't have to be reminded of the depth of their relationship, it should already be established, set in stone, by this point.

    Also, the interesting philosophical debate between the Jedi, the concept of the 'Living Force' etc, dissapears completely with the death of Qui-Gonn. Obi-Wan should have been the rebellious one, with the traits which Qui-Gonn embodied in Episode I - it would have made him a far more interesting character all the way through.
  18. Minez01

    Minez01 Jedi Master star 1

    Nov 12, 2005
    Totally agree with you there. I don't actually mind Obi-Wan being as young as he was in TPM, however I do agree that the Obi Wan/Anakin relationship was poorly done throughout each of the films. I would have at least like to see Obi Wan and Anakin's relationship grow and change through EpII and III, rather than the seemingly non-care they had for each other in most of their scenes except the final battle.

    Also agree with you on Obi Wan's personality. I'd have much preferred he end up more like Qui Gon than how he did, though to be fair, in RoTS I did see him as somewhat of an experimental type Jedi, ie. he doesn't just sit around on the council and preach about the force, he is quite an active participant in lots of things.

    Between the two stories offered (the draft vs the final film) I think I prefer the final film, though there are things I enjoy from the draft:
    - Obi Wan finding Anakin alone
    - Jar Jar seems less annoying
    - The Duel of Fates end is more satisfying (Darth Maul celebrating?? wtf)

    Although there are also some downsides as well. Anakin's personality in the draft seems way too mature for a 10 year old kid, IMO. I thought the kid from TPM movie was pretty annoying, I'd have preferred an Anakin that wasn't overly loud or "out there", and also wasn't like the one from the draft version. While I also like the fact that in the draft, Obi Wan finds Anakin alone, I do like that his last promise in the movie to Qui Gon is to train Anakin, I think it helps to ensure that Obi Wan isn't portrayed as the sole downfall of the Jedi by finding Anakin, training him and then having him destroy the Jedi with the Emperor. Plus it also (in his final scene with Yoda talking about Ani) is the scene where we see that Obi Wan has somewhat inherited Qui Gon's stubbornness, even though he lacks it in Ep II/III.
  19. Corvax855

    Corvax855 Jedi Knight star 3

    Jan 23, 2011
    Neither version really tickles my fancy, although Obi Wan being the prominent character makes a lot more sense than Qui Gon. Qui Gon should have never been a major character IMO, because he wastes a lot of character development that should have been reserved for Obi Wan. Lucas simply wanted a mentor type character that he could kill off (like Obi Wan in ANH) in keeping with his "rhyming" scheme.

    The big problem here is the same problem that I have with the actual film, and that is there's no main character that you can relate to. Obi Wan is already a full-fledged Jedi Knight at this point, so you can't really relate to him. Anakin is barely in the story, and the Queen, while being the one character who's story most approximates the Hero's Journey in TPM, is also unrelatable, because she's too high up on the totem pole.

    The answer to creating a fantastic Episode I is to completely re-imagine it from the ground-up, and follow what is explicitly stated in the OT, and that is when Obi Wan met Anakin, he was already a great pilot (I never got the impression that he was a nine-year old podracer), and that they formed a kind of friendship or bond before Anakin agreed to become a Jedi and follow Obi Wan on that "damn fool idealistic crusade".

    As a kid (long before the prequels were in production) it always felt to me that Anakin was some poor guy in his late 20s or 30s from Tatooine working in a menial job. Perhaps he actually was a navigator on a spice freighter, and stopped off in some cantina somewhere to have a drink and got into a barfight or something, and that's how he came to the attention of Obi Wan who sensed great potential in him. I was also always under the impression that their relationship dynamics were going to be a lot like Murtaugh and Riggs in the Lethal Weapon movies: funny, yet deep and genuine despite Riggs/Anakin's problems.

    Don't get me wrong, I still really like the prequels, but when you start rethinking them, you see the potential of what could have been, and it's kind of irksome.
  20. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Oct 31, 2012
    I'm very pleased with TPM we got and I think this first draft is very underdeveloped (that's why it's only a first draft.) I think Obi-Wan's character arc is much more satisfying when we see him go from a young Padawan learner to a powerful Jedi Knight to a wise Jedi Master and finally the old hermit Ben Kenobi. I think Qui-Gon's role in the saga is essential because he is the father figure for Anakin that could have been instead of the one he got with Palpatine. I like that comparison and I think it adds a little more tragedy to the PT which would sadly be absent if this was the film we had gotten. I'm happy with the Anakin we got because I think it sets up his character and his eventual fall to the dark side perfectly for the next two films. And I wouldn't change Jar Jar a bit other than him stepping in Bantha dung.
    Seagoat likes this.
  21. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Sep 2, 2012
    Episode 1 was pretty good the way it was. Could have toned down on Jar Jar just a bit but have to agree that Obi-Wan should have had a more prominent role. Have Obi-Wan be recently knighted but in contact with Qui-Gon Jinn throughout the movie. And please make Anakin older!