The Bible Thread: Help Fight Redundancy

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Lord Bane, Apr 10, 2002.

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  1. Chris2 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 1998
    star 4
  2. CmdrMitthrawnuruodo Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2000
    star 6
    Okay, I have a question.

    Explain Revelations to me. I tried reading it and the most I got out of it is that its about Armaggedon or something like it. But I'd like to know the details.

    PM me your responses.
  3. Chris2 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 1998
    star 4
    BTW anybody seen any bible films? They tend to not be perfectly accurate. Jesus of Nazareth, for example, adds some stuff at the expense of others(Walking On Water and Jesus's temptation are not in the film) while The Ten Commandments essentially doesn't do the Penteach must justice...
    Anyway, apparentally a new biblical epic is coming out: Jonah-a Veggietales movie...
  4. cydonia Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 5
    Oh man, the veggietales. Poor kids.
  5. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
  6. Muppet Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2002
    star 1
    I have a question. Maybe its not that well fitted to this thread, but I see nowhere else to post it. Ive always wondered who gets the royalties from the Bible? Does the money go to charity or to the church?
  7. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    I would assume the publishing companies get them.
  8. Grand_Moff_Monkey Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    The Bible itself isn't copyrighted by anyone. But the particular translations are.

    Anyone can reprint a copy of the King James Bible (as it's so old, no one owns the copyright). The money will then go to whoever publishes it. With the newer translations, only the original publishers can publish it and they get the money.

    Eg. The New International Version is the best selling English Bible in the world. It's published by Hodder & Stoughton, so they keep the cash.

    Personally, I've always thought that at least a percentage of the money earned by the publishers should go to charity.
  9. Chris2 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 1998
    star 4
    Now, rejoining the other side of things, I've found a very good(and funny!) apologetics site which has got me leaning toward Christianity again:


    http://www.tektonics.org

    In particular, it disputes the claims over influence of other religion; it also reexamines secular accounts of Jesus. It also works out many of the contradictions and 'failed' prophecies convincingly. The site is also free from the paranoia and "fire and brimstone" rhetoric which often surface on Christian websites.
  10. Jedi_Hope Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2002
    star 4
    about the "lost books" farther up, I think they may be real but were left out for a reason.
  11. Yada Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 17, 2002
    star 1
    Greetings all:

    I am reposting this here as an adjunct to our evolution discussion over in the senate:


    For your benefit Geisty,

    Let me submit to you first off that paper and ink is paper and ink, big duh there. The question however is whether "the force" behind what was written has an origin that was and is alive; and if so, might it be possible that the Spirit behind it all, (unlike the great OZ), may just be the most rather than the least real thing in the universe; which fact may then contribute to the spiritual view that there is far more there than meets the eye, yet the discerning of it requires eyes to see it.

    Examples, I have thousands, and will give you three, one I ran across while studying names in the original language, one which deals with King Nebby, whom you mentioned,

    OH yeah, and one is my take on the Matrix, a very cool flick, lets see what you make of the first one:

    I began studying Hebrew 45 years ago, one of the frailties of English Translations is that they do not understand the mystical signifigance of words or letters.

    The other huge problem is one of transliteration. That is what was done to the names and places in scripture. What that means in plain english is that each name has a meaning in Hebrew thought. If I were to translate the name, I would put the actual meaning of the name into the new language. If I transliterate it, you lose the meaning, but the spelling makes it sound as much like it's actual "pronunciation" in the original language as possible.

    Example in Hebrew we say Adam, pronouced Ahh Dahm or awe damm, soft A's, in english they spell it to sound that way, close at least, but adam means red,clay, man, or man formed of the red clay (the earth). You learn the sound, not the meaning.

    The problems this causes should be apparent; while you may be happy, if you go to China, that when they say your name it sounds just like you say it back home. If you and all your folks know what your name's meaning has great signifigance and if that gives you and your entire life a entirely deeper layer of meaning, you may object to the discarding of that knowledge.

    In other words, since Indians, Hebrews, (several societies) believed that it is the essence of a name that is most important....and since the Hebrew names all turned out to be prophetic of the person, their personality or something that defined their life...then losing that knowledge was very damaging to understanding the phenomena within scripture.

    Example:

    The meaning of proper names can be a difficult pursuit since a direct translation is often not readily available. Even a conventional Hebrew lexicon can prove disappointing. A study of the original roots, however, can yield some fascinating insights.

    (A caveat: views concerning the meanings of original roots are not free of controversy and variant readings.)

    Let s take an example.

    The Flood Judgment

    Methuselah comes from muth, a root that means "death"; and from shalach, which means to bring, or to send forth. The name Methuselah means, "his death shall bring".

    Methuselah's father was given a prophecy of the coming Great Flood, and was apparently told that as long as his son was alive, the judgment of the flood would be withheld; but as soon as he died, the flood would be brought or sent forth.

    (Can you imagine raising a kid like that? Every time the boy caught a cold, the entire neighborhood must have panicked!)

    And, indeed, the year that Methuselah died, the flood came.

    It is interesting that Methuselah's life, in effect, was a symbol of God's mercy in forestalling the coming judgment of the flood.

    Therefore, it is fitting that his lifetime is the oldest in the Bible,
    speaking of the extensiveness of God's mercy.

    (of course there is evidence of a world wide flood, another debate, and also that before that flood atmospheric pressures were different and the gaseous canopy was much more protective. An increase in ozone could remove the number one cause of aging, radiation (we receive many x-rays a d
  12. solojones Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    That's very interesting, Yada! I myself am a Christian, and certainly believe that could have been planned by God :)

    -sj loves kevin spacey
  13. TeeBee Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2002
    star 3
    I only had time to skim through that, but it's quite fascinating! I need to read it in more detail later. :)
  14. TreeCave Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2001
    star 4
    Very interesting, Yada!

    What do you make of Mary meaning "bitter", or do you have a different meaning for it? Every source I've checked says "bitterness" or "sorrow". I always thought that intriguing.
  15. sith1137 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 13, 2001
    star 4
    thats very interesting
  16. Chris2 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 1998
    star 4
    "A Sword shall pierce your heart also"--


    I suppose Mary was kind of sad that her son died. After all, she was present at the crucifixion.

    As for the 'code' keep in mind many people think they've decoded 666 and also that the bible contains a code predicting future events(It actually does not-the bible code can be applied to any book). We must be cautious with interpetation.
  17. solojones Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    Oh yeah, the Bible code *rolls eyes*. But what Yada points out directly coincides with what the text of the Bible says, anyway :)

    -sj loves kevin spacey
  18. Chris2 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 1998
    star 4
    What about the names of other biblical people? Could they also spell out something? Maybe biblical villains(Pharoah, Goliath, Nebuchanezzer, Herod etc.) can give us a clue to the antichrist?
  19. Darth Geist Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    Interesting topic, Yada, and you obviously know your stuff--but it's not uncommon for storytellers (particularly good ones) to give their characters' names thematic significance.

    The name Hercules, for example, means "Glory of Hera." It's an ironic name, since not only was Hera not his real mother, she also tried to kill him numerous times; his glory was her failure.

    This tradition continues through modern times. Count Dooku's name stems from a Chinese word for "poison;" likewise with Padme and "flower."

    Such creativity and knowledge are admirable, but they hardly require divine inspiration on the level you're talking about; ordinary men have created such names for many thousands of years.
  20. Yada Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 17, 2002
    star 1
    thank you one and all, two things:

    One, RE: Mary, the name is Miriam in Hebrew, and comes from the root word Mara (pronounced Marr ah).

    One meaning of the word is bitter, the other is rebellion. The fact that Christ choose (yes choose) to come to earth and be born of a woman named bitter and rebellion has great signifigance. Simply put, it points to the need of His coming, were mankind not all (and that included Mary) sinners, of the spirit of bitterness and rebellion, if we were not all "under the law of sin and death" both physically and spiritually, He would not have had to come. Because we were in that boat however, He did come, as one of us, in order says scriptures to be well aquainted with our grief (our fallen state) so that He would indeed be a compassionate High Priest. (He ever liveth to make intercession for us) No one can accuse God of not going way out of his way to understand us, when they finally realize He emptied Himself of His Glory to be here on this dusty earth.

    second:
    The waters of Marah, as typified in the Exodus wilderness journey, were bitter and undrinkable, until Moses put the wood into the middle of them.

    Thus in the spiritual application, our bitter waters cannot become sweet until we place the wood (the cross) in the middle of them. Meaning, the more we look to Christ and place Him in the middle of our situations, learning to forgive and stop our complaining ;(which is what the Hebrews had been doing in that scene, and why the Lord made the waters bitter to begin with); the sweeter our waters of life will also become. Trusting Him, looking to the cross and the Lord with eyes of faith is crucial.

    As to Geisty's remarks, well like I said, that was only one example...see if you can explain the next one away:
  21. Yada Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 17, 2002
    star 1
    There is a funny in here as well as some pretty profound stuff.

    How did a man named Daniel know what was about to happen? Easy God told him in His word 150 years ahead of the events, and God is always accurate to a T. always 100%
    It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.
    Proverbs 25:2

    It may come as a surprise to many that there are ciphers encrypted in the Bible. Some are hidden; some, when revealed, are a key part of the narrative. Some prefer to label them all as prophesy, however there is much more at work here than simple prognosticating.

    One of the first examples of deciphering a mysterious code-and certainly one of the most dramatic-occurred in Babylon during the fifth century B.C.

    A Jewish prodigy by the name of Daniel was called into a royal celebration to decipher a baffling cryptogram which had interrupted the imperial festivities by mysteriously appearing on the wall of the banquet room.
    His decipherment of this strange message declared the impending fall of the dominant world empire of the time.

    This episode, recorded in the Bible in Daniel Chapter 5, has even resulted in several household idioms which still echo in our everyday language: "The handwriting on the wall," "your number is up," "you have been weighed and are found wanting," etc.

    The Babylonian Empire

    In 606 B.C. Nebuchadnezzar succeeded in his siege of Jerusalem and King Jehoiakim of Judah became his vassal. The Prophet Jeremiah had predicted that the Babylonian Captivity of the Jews was to last 70 years, and it did; to the very day.

    It was a result of this siege that Daniel and three of his friends were deported as teenagers to be educated and to serve at the Babylonian court.

    These "hostages" would help assure the continued loyalty of the vassal king in Jerusalem.
    Upon taking his throne, the young Nebuchadnezzar put his palace advisors to a test regarding an unusual dream which troubled him.

    Daniel distinguished himself in describing and interpreting the dream, and this led to his ascendancy in the Babylonian court. This apparently also began an unusual relationship between Daniel and King Nebuchadnezzar. During a seven-year period of incapacity, Daniel was his personal attendant. (One quality of the true prophets were their ability to tell someone what the dream was, as well as its meaning, which always came to pass).

    Nebuchadnezzar's Successors

    Nebuchadnezzar's death was followed by a steady weakening of the regime. After one subsequent coup d'etat after another, ultimately Nabonidus came to the throne. However, Nabonidus indulged in foreign adventures in Palestine and Northern Arabia, leaving his son Belshazzar as co-regent in Babylon.

    In the last year of Nabonidus the idols of the cities around Babylon, except Borsippa, Kutha, and Sippar, were brought in, which was an action taken only at the sign of impending war. Inscriptions also confirm Daniel as "the 3rd Ruler in the kingdom."

    The Rise of Cyrus

    Cyrus II ("the Great," 559-530 B.C.) was the founder of the Achaemenid Persian Empire that continued for two centuries until the time of Alexander the Great (331 B.C.). Young Cyrus succeeded in welding the Medes and Persians into a unified nation.

    Babylon was in no position to resist a Medo-Persian invasion in the year 539 B.C. During the preceding fourteen years, Nabonidus the king had not so much as visited the capital city, leaving the administration of the metropolis to his profligate son Belshazzar, to whom he also "entrusted the kingship."

    Toward the end of September, the armies of Cyrus, under the able command of Ugbaru, district governor of Gutium, attacked Opis on the Tigris River and defeated the Babylonians. This gave the Persians control of the vast canal system of Babylon. On October 10, Sippar was taken without a battle and Nabonidus fled. Two days later, on October 12, 539 B.C., Ugbaru's troops would be able to enter Babylon without a battle. The stage was now set for the strangest banquet in history.

    The Banquet
  22. solojones Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    I take the Bible, every part of it, very seriously. I have seen signs of the end times... but I don't think it's our place to try to divine when it will be. Remember, God said it would be at an hour when we least expect it :)

    -sj loves kevin spacey
  23. Chris2 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 1998
    star 4
    There has been some debate over Daniel-it's stated that it was actually written in 200 B.C, after the Jews got their land back.

    As for signs:Keep in mind that people have tried to predict the apocalypse for over 2000 years-and failed. For instance many people believed Muhammad was the False Prophet of Revelation...
  24. SCOTSSITHLORD Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 2
    This is extreme laziness on my part, as I'm contributing to the discussion without reading many of the previous posts.
    Still, I'd love to find out how conservative fundamentalists tie their beliefs in with Jesus' ministry. The over turning of the money lenders tables, the widow's penny parable, the story of the rich man with his caravan and the moral of the camel through the eye of the needle.
    Let's face it, anyway you tart up the bible, the message of Jesus is utterly anti - materialist, and this is proved by the scanty records of the early church, all of which indicate, as does scripture that the early christians lived in a very strict kibbutz system.
    I'm also interested in the biblical figure of St Paul, or Saul of tarsus to give him his proper title, the biblical authority for the non ordination of women and the keeping of slaves. Josephus in his history of first century palestine, which from his turncoat point of view is 100% Roman, cannot disguise the widespread nature of the revolt against the Romans amidst the jewish population of palestine. Considering the fact that the disciple Simon of Canaan is a mistranslation, and actually means Simon the zealot, what does this tell us of the early church. Why was Peter wearing a sword in the garden of gethsamane?
    The terms the meek and the poor, common phrases in the new testament are used by the Essenes, the authors of the Dead Sea scrolls, who are tied in with the rebellious jews who fought and died at Massada. The historical evidence available would suggest that christianity and the religious views of John the baptist, most probably an essene, were politically heretical, and not merely religious heresy. Why would the romans intervene in an intra jewish religious dispute, unless the side accusing jesus were favourable to roman rule, and if that's the case why did the romans save St Paul from a mob of angry jews, according to scripture?
    I have my own theories on these questions, but I'd welcome the opinions of religious conservatives, to prove me wrong.
  25. Chris2 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 1998
    star 4
    Not all fundamentalists have a great deal of material possessions. Don't be fooled by the fancy-dressed, gold-mine owning so-called televangilests on television.


    BTW, an Abraham TV movie is on A & E....
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