The Bible Thread: Help Fight Redundancy

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Lord Bane, Apr 10, 2002.

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  1. Darth_Nemesis Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 3
    Thanks Yada, I posted my post just as you posted yours. I will indeed try harder than ever to stop drinking.
  2. cydonia Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 5
    Treecave speaks the truth, during ancient roman times almost all water was taken diluted with a hint of wine.
  3. solojones Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    TreeCave is right, back then, you'd have to drink all day to get drunk. So more restraint is probably needed now, but a cup of wine probably won't be a problem unless it tempts you to greater drinking.

    -sj loves kevin spacey
  4. Yada Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 17, 2002
    star 1
    Part of overcoming in an area is not to live in a vacumn, anytime you wish to stop something, developing a new hobby or interest that is equally entertaining is a better guarantor of success than to white knuckle it, first ask God for help, that is crucial, then accept His leading.

    One of my friends, with a big time drinking problem decided to spend the booze money on film. She joined a hiking group, and started hangin in parks, at waterfalls etc, now she is winning awards for her work. Far more satisfying than twenty empties piled on the counter.
  5. Yada Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 17, 2002
    star 1
    you guys might want to check out my Matrix thread over in the ampitheater
  6. Chris2 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 1998
    star 4
    According to St. Paul, drunkiness is a sin. Heck, even partying is a sin(Revelry) However, the drinking of alchohol in itself is not a sin. In fact, Paul recommends it to one of his students in order to help fix some sort of stomach ailment...
    BTW what about male/female relationships in the bible? I think basically the bible discourages out-of-wedlock sex, and also often states that chastity-that is, no sex or marriage at all-is a virture, since Marriage can cause problems, both in following God and other issues....then again, in several books of the OT, I think it's also suggested that marriage, when done correctly, can be a powerful partnership.
  7. phantom31415 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2002
    star 1
    Heck, even partying is a sin(Revelry)
    Not really, revelry implies more of a drunken orgy kinda thing. Not "Thou shalt not have a party" or anything.

    BTW what about male/female relationships in the bible?

    Basically, no sex before marrige. This includes stuff that is not technically sex, but that I probably shouldn't post about. You get the picture. :) And marrige is good for most people, but not everybody.
  8. Yada Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 17, 2002
    star 1
    the Matrix thesis is too long and got bumped, but I'm willing to share it with whomever asks.

    how bout if I post it as a five parter?
    will that work?

    PS. so solojones, did you read it yet, whata ya think?
  9. solojones Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    Yada- I haven't got a chance to read it yet. I promise I'll try to get through it, soon, though :)

    -sj loves kevin spacey
  10. Chris2 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 1998
    star 4
    I notice in REVELATION there's a few things stating that only 144000 celibate, virgin, Jewish men will go to Heaven, or have a certain rank in Heaven etc...


    What does this mean for Gentiles who aren't virgins? Even if they are sexual in a marriage relationship?

    Jesus refers that some will choose to become 'eunochs'(Celibate) to attain heaven. Are Virgins more highly favored? What about St. Peter? At least prior to his discipleship, he was married, and possibly had Children.

    Or is this virgin thing yet another symbol, refering to Idols or the fact that before battles Jews were required to be celibate for a few days? ("Do not go near a woman")

  11. cydonia Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 5
    That 144,000 saved souls thing i vaguely remember. Not looking good for the millions of christians on earth.
  12. Grand_Moff_Monkey Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    "Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel... After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands." (Revelation 7:4,9)

    The millions of Christians around the world need not worry. :D

  13. cydonia Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 5
    That's a releif. :p

    So what relevance is the 144,000 then?
  14. Grand_Moff_Monkey Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    Well, if we're talking about Revelation, then any number of interpretations are valid.

    I think that the 144,000 is not to be taken literally anyway (this is Revelation we're talking about after all). The 12 tribes that are mentioned are not the 12 actual tribes as they existed in Israel. The tribes of Joseph and Levi are mentioned. There was no tribe of Joseph in Israel, but there were two tribes named after his two sons: Ephraim and Manesseh.

    Levi weren't one of the 12 tribes, as they had no division in the land of Israel. Instead there were little pockets of Levi all over the land as they were the priests, serving the other tribes.

    As well as Joseph and Levi being added to the list, Dan and Ephraim are not mentioned. Persumably because both tribes became synomymous with idol worship.

    So I think the whole 144,000 from the 12 tribes is all a metaphor anyway. Maybe the inclusion of Levi represents those that have lacked posessions on earth and have served others will get their reward, while those who've worshipped idols won't. Not necessarily the right interpretation, but I guess it fits the facts and the context.

  15. Chris2 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 1998
    star 4
    One thing I'm wondering about is authority. In the Gospels and Epistles opinions of Government and secular duties seem to be mixed. On one hand, in the Gospels and Epistles it states that we should do what the government tells us-pay taxes, be subject to ordinances..etc...but also, the NT says that the world-including the Government-is under Satanic influence(Which, given all the warmongering in the world today, is not hard to believe!). However, I think it's possible that when the bible is speaking of the 'world' it is mainly speaking of certain aspects of the world-namely lust and pride-our passion for material objects, worship of things other than God(Or putting hobbies before God) and our own self-elevation which distracts us from God-not the ENTIRE world(Which would cause Christians to develop a giant fortress mentality)
  16. Darth Geist Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    "(Which would cause Christians to develop a giant fortress mentality)"

    You'd be surprised at the number that do--not to dig at anyone personally, but I've seen it happen numerous times.
  17. Chris2 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 1998
    star 4
    Is it just me or does Anakin's description of a Jedi lifestyle in AOTC seem somewhat similar to a Christian type of lifestyle?


    "Attachment is forbidden.
    Possession is forbidden.
    Compassion, which I would define as unconditional love, is essential to a Jedi's life..."

    Attachment, or couvetnous, seems to be discouraged for Christians. I think Christians are in fact encouraged to share-the early churches had a commune system of sorts, where people frequently traded and exchanged...Christians are allowed to have posessions, but not ones that are fairly useless("Do not put for yourselves treasures on Earth, where moth and dust corrupt")but beneficial(The basics-the Christian ideal of poverty-food, clothes, shelter, means of communication with others(Telephone, computer etc),and a copy of the scriptures are all you need).
    And finally, compassion of course-helping others in need, loving even your enemies and so on...


  18. Chris2 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 1998
    star 4
    BTW speaking of STAR WARS, has anybody thought of Joseph Campbell's view on the bible? To him, he sees it as a sort of metaphor, that the crucifixion is somebody dying to the animal nature and being ressurected in the spiritual nature, instead of a fact(I believe Joseph was an agnostic)...
  19. cydonia Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 5
    Good book on that would be Thou Art That, one of the books where he gets more into detail on christianity.
  20. Wingzeronuke Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 25, 2002
    Why does God tell people to hate their families?
    Why does he tell people to hate the world?
    Why does he discourage sex?
  21. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    Did you write all that?

    If not, I want a link to the site from which it came from. That kind of message length kills threads.
  22. Wylding Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2000
    star 5
    Why does God tell people to hate their families?

    He doesn't.

    Why does he tell people to hate the world?

    He doesn't.

    Why does he discourage sex?

    He doesn't.
  23. Lianna Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2001
    star 4
    Just to add to Wydling's comments.


    Jesus did not tell his followers to "Hate" thier families in the sense that many interpret "Hate". What he meant was that they should love thier families less than God and that if a situation came to it, where it was a choice between God and family, God should always win out, such as the case when someone becomes a true christian and someone in the family opposes them. The christian should not stop serving God to please the family.

    God does not discourage sex. It has always gotten me that people believe this. Afterall, he COMMANDED Adam and Eve to have children and you can't do that without sex. What he condemns is sex outside of the marital arraingement.

    When Jesus said to "hate" the world he meant the ungodly conduct and attitudes of the world as well as the desires and showy display of the world around them.

  24. Darth Geist Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
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