ST The big debate: making a TFA we are ALL OK with...

First, I would not change "This will begin to make things right ..." Great. Regarding the Lor San Tekka / Kylo confrontation, on first (unspoiled) viewing we really do not know who they are yet. Actually, even the semi-spoiled and hard core fan are not supposed to know anything. Looking back on it with full knowledge of what transpires in TFA perhaps we could ask for a little more clarification of the relationship, but as a stand alone first scene before we are moved along, the dialog gives use the knowledge that they know each other, and foreshadows the coming reveal of Kylo.

Look how old you’ve become.
Something far worse has happened to you.
You know what I’ve come for.
I know where you come from, before you called yourself Kylo Ren.
The map to Skywalker. We know you found it. And now you’re going to give it to the First Order.
The First Order rose from the dark side, you did not.
I’ll show you the dark side.

The lines are enough to show they know each other, Kylo has disdain for Lor San Tekka and that Kylo is not a direct product of the Dark Side. A tiny bit of background, some foreshadowing, and the first mystery. Liked it, I would leave it.

 

I'd keep the attack on the village and Lor San Tekka and Kylo Ren's encounter the same. It was a great opening sequence IMO.

 

And some nice texturing for when he then cuts Lor down and suspends a blaster bolt in midair.

 

Agreed. All good up to LST dying. I did wonder if we could keep him going but the scene doesn't really work without it.

 

The Opening was great, the tension was way up the dialog was not bad, not very memorable like "Why so serious" but still... not bad...
However, am I the only one that thinks finding a map is a weak plot device for a movie? In my opinion finding a map should be a video game plot... I can't think how to do it better in the top of my head right now, but it kind of felt that way for me...

 

I felt the opening shot was fine visually but was expecting more noise ala ANH although it would not have quite worked with this shot. It isnt possible to improve on the opening shot from ANH of course, its completely iconic however I always look forward to the sound of a space ship zooming by as the first bit of the movie and felt that was lacking in TFA. No biggie though i guess

 

It's not so much the map itself as it is the information contained in the map (Luke Skywalker's location) that matters.

 

Yeah, I like the map. It's a plot device like the Death Star plans, but in this case it's for something good that the good guys want to find (find Luke and bring him in), not a thing to destroy. Conversely, it's for something that the bad guys want to destroy (find and kill Luke).

 

I would add a little exposition during the opening chat between Lor San Tekka and Poe in regards to the Republic and Resistance. Just to hint at how hamstrung they are, and to accentuate their underdog status. Something like.....

Tekka - Without the Jedi, there can be no balance in the Force.
Poe - Well because of you, now we have a chance. The General's been after this for a long time.
Tekka - The General ... to me she's royalty.
Poe - Well she certainly is that.
: Tekka - The Senate would do well not to ignore her wisdom.
: Poe - We still have -some- support within the Senate, enough to keep those old ships flying anyway. We'll get by.
[enter BB8]

 

Well maybe it's just me... I thought that Luke missing with a map behind him is really kind of odd and furthermore the map being broken into pieces didn't really make sense to me.

Yeah very good addition... that would help why the Resistance only had 30 X-wings... but yeah... the Republic would of looks so dump and actually deserve what they got by StarKillerBase.

 

Hate to go backwards to go forwards but, y'all just move too fast...

If you're going to tell a story about how a government that has endured for 1,000 years fell, you're going to need an entry point. A pretty good one is greed (a common theme in Star Wars). And, there have been wars fought over taxes. You might need to be a history buff anymore to know about it but, there was this little one a couple hundred years ago or so, fought in North America, had something to do about "no taxation without representation."

As there are few things as contentious as how a government takes resources to provide for the "common good," it should not be too surprising to find that there are in fact children's stories about that concept. May I suggest: The Ant and the Grasshopper, or The Little Red Hen, or, if you want something with a "young adult" flair, Robin Hood?

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Since we seem to have agreed to keep the "A long time ago,...", I'll take that to mean that one of our strategic objectives in this "rewrite" is to make a children's fairy tale. Along those lines, one other item we should probably discuss is: are we going to keep the PG13 rating or try to make it PG?

Once we have consensus on those big picture goals, this adventure may be a bit easier.

 

Administrative things like ratings are irrelevant at this stage - anything that'd get it an r-rating would stick out like a sore thumb, so the idea is to keep it tonally consistent. That doesn't really need to involved a great deal of fussiness around the "a long time ago" thing, which seems to be solely your issue at this point. Things that have followed "a long time ago.." have included elements as disparate as the rescue of a princess, taxation of trade routes, and mutilation followed by graphic immolation - there is nothing with TFA that tonally would invalidate the "a long time ago", and the very act of abandoning it would clearly not win over people, so let's consider that idea dropped.

 

I disagree that the goal is necessarily to make this a CHILDREN'S fairy tale. I think the goal is to give it an epic, mythical felling, TFA works that for me, so I think no rewrite is necessary to acheive that, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't be open to changes.

 

Since the map has now been brought up on here, Id like to propose the idea that originally came from the alleged MakingStarWars leaked plot (as well as Brackett's ESB rough draft) that the map is actually hidden inside a lightsaber (preferably Luke's green one from ROTJ, as I feel it is less confusing that way). This would to help give TFA a more unique tie to Arthurian legend of having the sword itself be the mcguffin of the plot. Furthermore, it would help to feel just a tad more different from the original Star Wars.

Would this be too drastic of a change for this sorta thing that this thread is going for?

 

I found the whole concept of the map to be a very silly plot device.Calling it a '' Map to Luke Skywalker '' was inaccurate since it was just by chance that Luke would be on that planet for whoever used it.

 

Good suggestions there fella.

 

We have no clue how Lor San Tekka came by the map. We also are assuming (or not) that Ach-To is the location of the First Jedi Temple. If Luke is at the site of the first temple then having a particular locus for that makes sense. The backstory of how the missing coordinates (there appears to be particular jump positions when the piece is put in place) were separated, sequestered, and then revealed we do not have either. We do not know who or what put the map back in play. One way or the other if one of the major themes of TFA is the search for and finding of Luke, somehow we will need a whereabouts reveal through some locating medium.

Regarding the map in the lightsaber ... that makes a huge change in how the story proceeds. Do we put the map in the lightsaber then in BB8? Do we just dump BB8's part of it? We cannot wait for Maz for the lightsaber, since then nothing sparks the entire Jakku story. If we have the lightsaber in the story from the get-go, then when is the Rey vision? Do we even go to Takodana, or do we just go to get a ship, everyone hangs out until the FO arrives? Early on we need to consider down stream effects ... and decide if we are playing at tweaking and augmenting, or wish to do wholesale story reconstruction.

 

I agree hat maybe just a tad more exposition on how the map got separated into pieces and how one piece ended up in the hands of Lor-San could've been hinted at a little more at the very least. As far as the saber thing goes, I see a few different routes in my mind:

A) have the saber be placed in BB, and have it then shown to Han on the Falcon, who takes them all to Maz to show it to her since he knows she's aware of the force and could perhaps explain the "bigger picture" of what's going on. Once there, she is the one who willingly inflicts the vision into Rey to explain her destiny to her. This is taken from the MakingStarWars, and I personally find it to be a lot more engaging than "let's get BB8 on a clean ship" and "I need you to get this droid back to Leia."

B) Have Poe accidentally drop the saber prior to being captured by the First Order, and then Finn happens to stumble upon it and take it for himself out of sheer curiosity. Then Han recognizes it on him when he comes into the pictures, figures Maz would know why it ended up in Finn's possession, and the plot basically just moves along like so from there. This way the plot wouldn't involve the mcguffin being in a droid that both the hero and villain factions are chasing, like the original Star Wars.

I understand that these suggestions may be a bit radical, so I'm ok with them not being used. Just figured I might as well throw something different out there.

 

The moment I hated in the entire movie, that I would undoubtedly change, is when Leia hugged and confided in Rey after Han died. This felt so odd, she is confiding in a girl she knew for a day or so. This is occurring whilst Chewie walks straight past in the background. The way I would change this scene is by having Chewbacca and Leia confide in each other instead; this feels much more natural and nostalgic. (This is assuming Rey is not related to either Han or Leia).

 

*Sigh*

 

Why no talk in this thread?

Can we move on? because i think most of the problems with this movie is in the third act...

I bet lot of people liked the first act and partially the second act...

 

Yeah, we all pretty much agree that its OK.