The big thing at JediNet lit...

Have you read the big essay over at JN lit?

 

"We may now dispense with the pleasantries. We are no longer Padawans. We have moved beyond the Late Zahns and Young Stackpoles who would try to shrink our universe by extinguishing old stars or ignoring those that do not seem to shine. We embrace the Veitchs, the Salvatores, the Daleys, the Macans, even the Jacksons and the Morans, who like Socrates are philosophers willing to wage war..."

Of course I agree with everything he's said. I had to double-check to make sure I didn't write it. There have been those "Masters" trying to instruct the "Padawans" to be more than they can be for a long time now. It's good that Ghentz has seen fit to legitimize the trend in his essay.

Unfortunately, however, not everyone has moved beyond the "late Zahn et. al." and still wish to embrace those people "...who would try to shrink our universe by extinguishing old stars or ignoring those that do not seem to shine." I suppose there will always be Padawans, regardless of how enlightened we all become.

But, it's good to know there's also people who have decided to move beyond being a mere Padawan as well.

With his editorial, Ghentz has taken his first step in a large world. There's those who have already blazed the trail and have done so even when it was not the "in" thing to do. It's good to see others joining in the fight to make SW the best it can be.

 

Just a slight correction, Genghis. The essay was written by a Guest Editorialist named Gustav, not Ghentz. All your comments still apply, though.

 

Yeah, so use to having Ghent connected to everything at Jedinet. Gustav Odgers certainly has made some legitimate observations. An excellent and well-written essay on the current state of Star Wars.

 

This sentence in particular was right on the money:

"We have moved beyond the Late Zahns and Young Stackpoles who would try to shrink our universe by extinguishing old stars or ignoring those that do not seem to shine."

And I instantly thought of you, Genghis.

It's what you've been saying for awhile and sounds like it could have been taken verbatim from one of your posts on the subject.

 

Upon reading that diatribe, I have to say that it was the most pompously written essay I've read in years. I also don't completely agree with it, as he denotes Lucas to a simple "contributor."

He isn't a contributor, he is the creator. Star Wars started and will end with him. The books and games and whatever can say and do what they want, but in the end, he is the master of the GFFA universe.

I'm not a movie purist, or canonist, or any of that stuff. I am simply of the mind that the EU must follow the films, and Lucas can say and do whatever he wants in them. The EU must follow what he writes in those films.

I also disagree with the essay's remarks that the film purists are the ones who are inflexible. I think it's the EU fans who are inflexible, who feel that the films must adhere to what has been written in books, comics and games. Who seem to want to forget that Lucas created this bohemeth, and he's free to do what he wants. I don't think he should blatently disregarding things for the sake of disregarding them, but if he feels that he wants to take the story in a particular direction, then he's free to do so.

 

I think im too stupid to understand that article.

 

He isn't a contributor, he is the creator. Star Wars started and will end with him. The books and games and whatever can say and do what they want, but in the end, he is the master of the GFFA universe.

He is the creator. He's also a contributor. Star Wars started with him, but it will not end with him. The books and games and whatever CANNOT say and do what they want; they have to have their events approved by editors and occasionally by Lucas himself. He is the master, granted, but as the master he allowed the EU to exist, he allowed certain aspects of it, and it is now part of Star Wars. A king may rule a kingdom but he usually doesn't build his castle by hand.

 

whoooooooooosh

Thats the sound of all this going over my head.

 

IAmTheDarkSide wrote:

He is the creator. He's also a contributor. Star Wars started with him, but it will not end with him. The books and games and whatever CANNOT say and do what they want; they have to have their events approved by editors and occasionally by Lucas himself. He is the master, granted, but as the master he allowed the EU to exist, he allowed certain aspects of it, and it is now part of Star Wars. A king may rule a kingdom but he usually doesn't build his castle by hand.

Agreed. My only point is that if he feels, as he makes EII and EIII, that he wants to do something different - as he clearly did with Fett that may or may not contridict what was written in EU - then he has the right. He can change things if he finds a story that he likes. The only events he truely must adhere to is the films. The EU can always be adjusted. And I think it has to be seen as adjustable such until EIII is released.

Only then will things - and should things - be set in stone.

 

Great essay. I dont agree with all of what was said...but it was all really well expressed and the core value I agree with...Star Wars is moving on into newer and better places.

 

You are not too stupid to understand the article, ChissDude. The writer is trying to sound intellectual, but good writers provide clear and logical arguments when writing essays. This is just a bunch canon vs EU babble and jibberish.

He makes a point that we should accept every piece of EU literature published no matter what and that it all fits together if you try hard enough. Obviously relying on the overly quoted, "From a certain point of view."

The problem is (which the author also points out) that because SW is so popular, we have an over-saturation of stories (bad and good) to try to fit into continuity. And lets be honest, the editors at LFL have not been very good at keeping track of everything. We have several accounts of how the rebels got the Death Star plans, at least 3 versions of how and why R5-D4 blew his motivator, etc. Every second of the movies and every background character has been written about.

Just because a Tales story OR a card's lore OR a computer game mission story has been written, it does not mean we have to "fit" it in. Just enjoy it for what it is...entertainment.

I applaud Zahn and Stackpole for tying continuity together better. If it means getting rid of some of the crap that has been written, then I say good riddens. I am glad in the NJO they are wiping out minor characters that won't ever have any kind of a large role. Save that space for the main story line and characters that deserve the space. With that said, even the NJO has problems keeping control of so many characters and plot lines continued from the Bantam line.

If a character or story is in limbo, let it stay in limbo. Sorry is you like those limbo plots or characters, but there is a reason they are in limbo. Quality creators and writers want to give us something better. They don't want to drudge up old disgarded junk that would distract from quality work.

I say we LET professionals clean up continuity. It will help lead to a better and more engaging, continuous SW story!

 

Cee Wulf I implore you to check Holonetnews.com where it is GEORGE LUCAS who is being adjusted not the EU.

* The Republic has been at peace for a mere 1000 years

Being the most telling point

Furthermore the Sith have not been adjusted with Ulic Quel Drommel and previous Sith being made mere Dark Jedi but Lucas's Sith religion is the "mere" latest endeavor of the Dark Regime.

Heck KJA didn't even give it the dignity of being a new one but instead it's just a subset of Kyle Kataarn's Battles of Light and Darkness on Ruusan

George may or may not "love" the EU but he certainly appreciates I suspect the money and the devotion many fans feel towards it.

Alayiah Secura IS in the films, The Outrider as well is an Easter Egg, Coruscant for instance.

Many movie fans however DO hate the EU and frankly Cee Wulf what your feeling is the backlash...like Christian fundementalists (now Christians in general) from many RPGers who suffered humiliation, loss of rights, and even the destruction of property because of propaganda against them.

I myself felt it as a Minister in training

Some things Cee Wulf CAN'T be reconciled though, if George says the Jedi cannot love then the Jedi cannot friggin love. I'm glad Greedo is a thug instead of a lost bounty hunter hero/prince, I certainly like Amidala better than the Fallasani...

*snuggles his Amidala doll* Hehe soon you will be mine

Err ignore that but I'm sorry I'm not ready or willing to say Corran Horn's history is eradicated or go to elaborate lengths (The Corellian jedi are an independant force tradition) to satisfy George's desire to make Amidala and Anakin's romance more difficutl

From what I can tell a minor part of the movie.

This isn't a spoiler by the way but an extrapoliation from the Trailers of Forbidden Love and the latest one along with the Approaching Storm. For all I know it's a complete lie and George ha left a convienant "out"

 

You know, when I first started reading Star Wars after Episode One, the number of different authors frustrated me to no end because the books always lacked a common author technique. Since the NJO, however, I've decided that this is the series strength because it allows the reader to read authors s/he would never consider reading otherwise. In this way,I agree with the paragraph Genghis12 posted. I am no longer satisfied with one or two authors running things but prefer to see how each author uses their own techniques to create Star Wars.

 

I thought it was a great article, most likely by a fellow SWFA'er...

 

Charlemagne19 wrote:

Cee Wulf I implore you to check Holonetnews.com where it is GEORGE LUCAS who is being adjusted not the EU.

* The Republic has been at peace for a mere 1000 years

Being the most telling point

I'm not sure what this is about. I didn't see any reference to this on www.holonetnews.com. I may have just missed it, however.

George may or may not "love" the EU but he certainly appreciates I suspect the money and the devotion many fans feel towards it.

I was not aware that Lucas ever said he didn't like the EU. I'm sure he appreciates it to a degree, but doesn't feel obligated to adhere to everything stated within it.

Some things Cee Wulf CAN'T be reconciled though, if George says the Jedi cannot love then the Jedi cannot friggin love. I'm glad Greedo is a thug instead of a lost bounty hunter hero/prince, I certainly like Amidala better than the Fallasani...

This is one thing I've never understood. Perhaps I missed the book or comic (I actually don't read the comics) but I wasn't aware that any of them dealt with the Jedi Council that exists in the PT. I thought Lucas banned anyone from dealing with that era.

If that is the case, then how do we know that the rules that govern the Jedi Council in the PT apply to the Jedi from the comics? I mean, didn't the comics that dealt with Sunrider and such take place thousands of years prior to the events in the film?

 

I refer to Kidi Adi Mundi, Sharad Hett, and Kam Solusar with in the books Neeja Halycon.

 

Yes, but was the Jedi Code that is causing all this controversy established at the time the comics took place? We don't know that.

 

Can someone post a direct link to this article? I can't seem to find it, thanks.

Even though I haven't read it, I think I'd like to make a few comments.

Genghis

I largely respect all that you have to say, in spite of our differences regarding certain authors and certain aspects of the EU which we hold opposing views. However I must say that I'm a little troubled by your response to the article.

"Unfortunately, however, not everyone has moved beyond the "late Zahn et. al." and still wish to embrace those people "

To say that UNFORTUNATELY some people have a different view than yourself, or chose to enjoy parts of the EU which you don't like is as opinionated and unjustified as the remarks which people have made in the past to you for rejecting Zahn. Unfortunate that people hold a certain book in higher esteem than another in their minds? Or unfortunate that that preference doesn't correspond with what you percieve to be the EU all should accept?

it's good to know there's also people who have decided to move beyond being a mere Padawan as well.

Come on, buddy. I would have expected more than such a belittling and patronising comment from someone like yourself.

Because people haven't opted to embrace aspects of the EU which you hold in higher esteem than others doesn't make them 'padawans' or any LESSER kind of fan or person.

I chose not to like some parts of the EU, JUST AS YOU DO, and I have my reasons, JUST AS YOU DO and you have voiced many a time. However I don't not expect to be spoken down to because of this, just as I would never and HAVE never spoken down to someone like yourself for such a reason. I have no right to, and I completely respect that you like certain parts of the EU and accept that it differs from the parts of the EU I like most.

If the article reflects the views I think its going to (judging by people's responses) then this sounds like the kind of article that can get away with patronizing remarks that condemn people because of their personal preferences simply because its contra to conventional notions in society (society, in this case, being the Lit Forum and conventional notions being that Zahn is the foremost author in the EU, as is the content of his novels [i'm not saying I agree with this, just that it has been the prevailing notion at times])

I dunno, Genghis, maybe I misinterperated your post there, maybe I overreacted. Maybe... just maybe I'll save their lives before I die... (oops, thats corran talking...)

I gets the feeling that I'm going to be absolutely hammered for these comments

 

I agree, those comments by Genghis12 are belittling. What, just b/c i hold a different opinion than you I am a lesser person? Come say that to my face.

And by the by, those things written about Ki Adi Mundi being married and the rest, were written BEFORE GL released the info about Jedi being forbiden to love, therefore, those authors acted without all the information, which isn't exactly their fault, but if it suddenly makes their work null and void, then they shouldn't be surprised.

 

Jedilord. You crack me up.

If you guys like embracing those authors "...who would try to shrink our universe by extinguishing old stars or ignoring those that do not seem to shine," then you are entitled to that opinion.

If you fault the essay, the wording of the essay and the issues it brings up, then do so and outline your criticism clearly, but you have no right to attack me or anyone else who agrees with it.

If you're just going to sit here and fault people for agreeing with it instead of outlining your faults with the essay, then obviously you are a "Padawan."

You have no right to fault my opinion for agreeing with it and agreeing with the phrases and wording it's used.

 

is that directed to me or JL, genghis?

If it is to me; geeeeeez, settle, dude!

Your comments could easily be standalone and don't, in my opinion, need to be read in the context of any essay you were responding to. Its quite clear the language which you used that is of concern to me, I even put it in my post for you.

You have no right to fault my opinion for agreeing with it and agreeing with the phrases and wording it's used.

Yes, I do. As I said, you say quite explicitly that you concur with the author's viewpoints and you go on to elaborate on that and belittle other members of this forum with remarks which quite clearly state that whoever doesn't agree with you (and the author you refer to) are UNFORTUNATE and UNENLIGHTENED and PADAWANS (the patronising tone could not be any thicker or I'd suffocate). THAT is what I 'fault'. In taking on the author's comments as your own thoughts and elaborating those thoughts, you open such thoughts to discussion, and you open those comments to discussion as your own by condoning them.

The essay may as well have not been written, your point is still clear, and my reasons for being adverse to such an opinionated point are equally clear. I see no problem whatsoever with my post, only with your remarks.

Come on, you're reasonable, can't you see how one could take offence to such a post with reason and grounds?

Consider this...

someone writes an essay on how great zahn in and how all the authors that you like suck and detract from star wars and that, because you think otherwise, you are somehow LESS than everyone else. Then someone posts on the board saying "yeah, they are too. Its unfortunate there are still people like genghis around with those stupid opinions that are different to mine. They are mere apprentices in the star wars literature world, and my opinion is right, as is that of the author, who I agree with on this matter".

Would you respond negatively? I think you know you would. I think any reasonable star wars fan with an opinion s/he values would.