The biggest fault in AOTC was...

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by blur75, Jan 11, 2004.

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  1. blur75 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2004
    ... there wasn't enough live action stuff.

    I mean, you listen to the commentary on AOTC, and the guys are slapping themselves on the back and almost wetting themselves that not one single Clone Trooper was real. They were *all* CG.

    That, to me, is so lame.

    The reason that movies like Lord of the Rings and, ironically, the earlier Star Wars movies, worked so well, is because there were lots of *real* people in *real* situations, augmented by CG other other special effects -- not reliant on them. There's such a profound difference in that.

    That's not to say that CG doesn't have a place - it surely does. But I think that battle on Geonosis should have been taken out into a real desert, with real Clone troopers running around, augmented with CG ships and CG Clone Troopers also on screen.

    This would have given the movie that *real* feel that the earlier ones have. When you look at the Jawa's Sandcrawler, for example, you can see that it's real. Even with the SE adding CG stuff, you still have this overwhelming sense that you are in a real place. Another good example is when we see Obi-Wan's home in the SE. The house is CG... but we still feel like we're in a real environment, that can be touched.

    Too much blue screen has ruined the prequels. As much as I like them, and think they're fun... I still think they're flawed for this very reason.
  2. JohnWilliams00 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 29, 2002
    star 4
    I agree with your points, but be prepared to really get flack for your post. (you used to dangerous buzzwords in these forums, "LOTR" and "CG") ;) Your right to post opinions will be challenged, your family members insulted, and you will be accused of this-and-that.

    Also remember that this is blur75's opinion. So if you thought the plethora of CG worked for you, then good for you.
  3. Che Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2004
    blur75, I agree 100%. Also, is it just me or do the model Star Destroyers and X-Wings etc. in the OT look a lot more solid and real then the CGI stuff in the PT?
    Jim
  4. NeoBaggins Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2003
    star 5
    Well, Im no stranger to flack so, I gotcha back on this one. I do feel it unessessary to create a computer generated stick on the ground when you can pull one off the tree.

    LOTR is like watching an epic drama-filled adventure and just when you think it cant get any better, BOOM, special effects and cgi are inserted right were they need to be and to an incrdible degree I might add.

    In ROTJ the greatest dogfight of any type of movie was filmed with models. Why does it look real? because even though the models arnt ships in space, the models still happen to be, real. For some strange reason I thout Lucas was going to use models in TPM. Silly me.

    Good usage: Naboo from space. Podrace. Underwater creature. Watto. Asteroid field (DEEZAM!). Tanwee. Mace falling to the arena surface. Ackelay. Dex.

    bad usage: Maul jumping from his bike (wiggly). BossNas jacket. Tarpels and Jarjar tumbling on the ground. Jabba the Hutt. Sebulba. Sometimes Yoda. Geonossians. Banking Clan dude. Anakin riding beast. Anakin jumping in to save Obiwan. c3p0 laying face down in the factory and other parts of that scene. Flying R2. Way too small wiggly destroyers at the end of factory scene. Wiggly Fett at the end of that scene. The unskilled Jedi who is pickedoff the balcony.
  5. DarthIshtar Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 9
    The bad thing is when the CGs like the Clone Troopers are better actors, fighters, and flirters than the marionettes who supposedly spawn the people who take down the empire.
  6. 103728103 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2003
    star 2
    There is nothing wrong with Clone Troopers being computer generated..on the contrary ,it was essential.

    Clone Troopers are clones above all. All Clones must have the same size,so there lies your #1 reason why they should have been cg.Besides ,noone really knew the clones were cg unless he was spoiled.And being spoiled comes with a burden like everything else.I,for example, wasn't spoiled so I didn't know that the clones were cg.I found it later and the truth is the job is so well done it's hard(impossible) to see that clones are cg.


    You could say there are faults in AOTC but not this particular one.
  7. Jedi_Learner Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2002
    star 5
    "The reason that movies like Lord of the Rings and, ironically, the earlier Star Wars movies, worked so well, is because there were lots of *real* people in *real* situations, augmented by CG other other special effects -- not reliant on them. There's such a profound difference in that."

    I agree with you blur75. I find the models in the Classic Trilogy much more realistic than the computer generated ones in the Prequels. They just look more real to me and I have a bad feelings most of the shots in the Classic Trilogy are going to be replaced with more computer generated graphics when another version comes out.

    Good topic. I hope it doesn't get locked. :)
  8. Jedi knight Pozzi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2000
    star 6
    I can never tell what's a model and what's CG. How do you do it? :)
  9. Jedi_Learner Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2002
    star 5
    The way it moves, the colour and texture it gives off. Compare the old edition of A New Hope during the battle of Yavin with the special edition and you can tell the difference.
  10. Jedi knight Pozzi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2000
    star 6
    Still wouldn't be able to tell. Pity, it'd be interesting to know exactly.
  11. Jedi_Learner Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2002
    star 5
    I'm sure someone with patience will show you some images which you could surely tell the difference. :)
  12. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    This didn't give me any trouble what so ever.

    Most people who complain about the CG in TPM are really complaining about models and motion control cameras. For people who are looking for flaws, having indistinguishable CG and model effects can be a bad thing, because a lot of people will assume it's CG first and ask questions later.
  13. AdamBertocci Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2002
    star 7
    I couldn't tell that the clonetroopers were digital, meself.

    I'd be very surprised if anyone could unless they knew first.

    And for your information, LOTR used plenty of CG characters. The whole Ent-Orc battle at the end of T2T, for example, had a boatload of CG.



    Rick McCallum loves you!
  14. ObiwanJohn Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 12, 2003
    star 4
    As far as CG goes I thought there had to be at least one real clone trooper. I mean an actor in a costum. I really believed this until I saw the behind the scene goodies on the DVD.


    As far as the biggest fault in AOTC I still think it was the whole droid factory scene. That was a complete waste of time and good example of to much GCI.
  15. anidanami124 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 6
    The to much CGI argument. Look half the stuff you coudl not do with out the CGI. Take Coruscant for example. That would set them back a lot of money to bulid something like that.

    As for the CGI troops. How many people really knew they were CGI? Really from what I have seen from posts back when AOTC first came out people did not know which were real and which were not. Then when ever one found out that they were all CGI people got mad.

  16. RolandofGilead Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2001
    star 7
    Ah one of my all-time favorite lables for the Prequels. [face_plain]

    There's too much CG, there's too much focus on computer effects instead of story. Give it a rest. There is nothing gratuitous about having CG Clonetroopers. For one thing, I doubt seriously that any of you knew the difference until someone told you there were no real troopers in AotC. Secondly, as stated above, the clones must all look, act and move alike and that's next to impossible with actors in suits (see the OT which is still providing confusion over whether Stormtroopers are clones). Last of all, when you want to show 100s or 1,000s of soldiers clashing together, it has to be done in CG nowadays. I hate to break it to all the purists, but most all the Orcs at the battle of Helm's Deep in T2T were CG. Only Jackson isn't half as good at it (see the troll in FotR) so he hides it under cover of darkness.

    I'm waiting untill someone posts the other generic comment that there isn't the same tension on Geonosis that was apparent in the Battle of Hoth because of the real actors vs. CG images. What a joke. Nothing against Empire, but what did you really see? Maybe 20 Rebel Soldiers in the snow shooting at some model Walkers. They couldn't even give us snowtroopers charging the trenches and taking over the base. They didn't have the technology to make it look right. And now that they do we get a lot of ungrateful people looking for something to complain about.

    You're welcomed to your opinion of course. CGI and advances in technology are no match for a good plastic model and rubber mask to some I guess.
  17. Darth Geist Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    Only Jackson isn't half as good at it (see the troll in FotR) so he hides it under cover of darkness.

    Go see ROTK; a much bigger battle than Helm's Deep takes place during the day. Let's not forget Gollum, who appears in clear daylight on a regular basis.

  18. ObiwanJohn Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 12, 2003
    star 4
    "Look half the stuff you coudl not do with out the CGI. Take Coruscant for example. That would set them back a lot of money to bulid something like that. "


    You could do Coruscant w/out CGI. It's called using minitures. It worked for Theed. It worked for Helm's Deep and Minis Tirith. It worked for the DS and Star Destroyers. Sure building a miniture of Coruscant would have been massive and used a lot of resources, but it could've been done and we (the audience) would've have been please if it was done well.

    I'm not against CGI in a movie, I think it works great when used in combination with known FX technology. Minitures, make up, rubber masks. Look at the movie Underworld. I was pretty certian the werewolves were CGI until I watched the goodies on the DVD this weekend. They were people in suits and they utilized animatronics for the facial expressions. Dex could've been done this way. Alot of the sets we see, Obi Wan on Kamino for example, would've been better if they had acutally built the set and not just used blue screen and CGI. Same with the droid factory. Padme actually gets stomped once and her cape gets caught two times or it would've if a real set had been used.
  19. Leias_love_slave Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 26, 2003
    star 5
    I'd like to start by saying that I loved AOTC, flaws and all.


    Those of you that seem to feel we were overwhelmed by too much CGI, I understand your point. I kind of see it like adding an ingredient to a recipe.


    A little bit of seasoning is good. Add a bit more, it's even better. But eventually, you can add so much that it's possible to cross a line and that seasoning overpowers the other ingredients.


    I'm not saying this is necessarily the case with AOTC.


    Some of the shots blew me away, like the troopers firing through the dust storm. I love that shot. I also thought that Yoda looked great in every scene he was in.


    Others were not quite as successful. I would point out any time one of the characters is riding on an animal. Coleman trebor's death was a little awkward but Mace's leap into the arena looked great, IMO.


    I guess what I'm saying is that I understand people that felt like they were watching an animated film at times, but I also agree that there were certain scenes that required CGI, and I'm grateful that they had the technology available.


    When people use LOTR for comparison, what they're missing is that the scenery in LOTR represents something that is familiar to us, whereas scenes like the battle on Geonosis are depicting something that is alien to us, therefore it has to work harder to convince us that it is a real place. I will agree that parts did not fool my eye as well as others. I felt the same way about the elephants in Return of the King.


    I just see it as a technology that has a little bit further to come.


    I still enjoyed both films very much.


  20. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    but it could've been done and we (the audience) would've have been please if it was done well.

    That I doubt. Look at all the people complaining about the arena, which was a miniature.

    For that matter, look at all the people complaining about the CGI, which was done extremely well.

    If the contradictory complaints on this board are any indication, nothing GL and ILM did would "please the audience." If Coruscant was a miniature, the same people who are complaining about CGI would instead complain about how it was "obviously" a miniature and then drag in LOTR, saying how much better its effects were.
  21. Leias_love_slave Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 26, 2003
    star 5
    Shelley, that is a fact of life.


    It is impossible to please everybody. ;)



    Edit: I was responding to a comment which you edited out of your post, but you get my point.




  22. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
  23. Jedi_Learner Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2002
    star 5
    People are welcome to their own opinions RolandofGilead and Shelley without having to be looked down apon because they think differently to you. [face_plain]
  24. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 10
    There's nothing wrong with CGI. You people whine too much.
  25. I_AM_A_CLONER Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 13, 2003
    star 4
    It seems not matter what GL does he can never please some people. He does something he gets criticized; he doesn't do something he still gets criticized.


    The Cloner

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