The BIGGEST reason that many people do not like the prequels is....?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Joeykin_Starrunner, Apr 2, 2005.

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  1. Avid_Prequels_Fan Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 2003
    star 2
    I'm with ya, I love the whole saga myself.

    "And if GL's references to a PG-13 RotS, plus his descriptions of it being a "darker" and more emotionally charged movie, I think he'll gain back those teens and adults, even if it's at the expense of some tiny tots and kiddies. Thus, after RotS, I predict a lot less complaining about the Prequels as a whole but rather more of a complaininga bout "TPM-and-a-little-of-AotC" bashing.

    But what do I know? I like the Saga overall with little complaints at all."

  2. jangoisadrunk Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2005
    star 4
    The biggest reason people don't like the PT is because internet message board allow THE CONSTANT CHATTER ABOUT IT. People obsess about every little detail, even when they don't understand the subtext of why something happens or why a character is/isn't in a particular film or part of a film or does/doesn't do something that may or may not make sense. One person sees something they don't like (eg. Jar Jar Binks), then get on a message board and find someone else who doesn't like Jar Jar Binks. It starts a whole groundswell of grass roots style opinion making. It's not a bad thing until it reaches the point it has with Star Wars today, then only because it divides the fans and causes labeling, which is just another form prejudice. There was never such a "bash friendly" medium in the 70's and 80's.

    The other reason for prequel dislike is the logic based "wouldn't/couldn't/shouldn't happen" argument. To me, these films work within the "rules" GL has created. To me, everthing happens for a logical reason. A quick example would be to say that a little boy couldn't pilot a pod racer, and GL doesn't show any evidence that Anakin is a good enough pilot to do so. The problem is the fact that we see with our own eyes that he can. To say he can't would seem to be faulty logic since we SEE him do it. Anyone can pm me a scenario or whatever and I'll make it make sense given the logic and rules based on what we SEE in the movies.
  3. -_-_-_-_-_- Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2002
    star 6
    The BIGGEST reason that many people do not like the prequels is....?



    The story formula is a bit more complex than the clear cut black and white nature of the OT story arc. At this point in the PT, I don't think the relationships between the characters have been brought full circle but Revenge of the Sith should do that in regards to allowing the audience to care about the characters.
  4. KenKenobi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 2002
    star 6
    The biggest reason people don't like the PT is because internet message board allow THE CONSTANT CHATTER ABOUT IT.

    It isn't the message boards that are causing people to dislike the Prequels, it's just peoples' different tastes. The Prequels aren't the Originals, and some people expect them to be.

    At least not so many people will bring their noisy little kids to it, so I can watch in some peace

    [face_laugh] That reminds me of the mom who read her little boy the opening crawl and every subtitle in AotC when I went to see it the third time. :p
  5. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Just a reminder to all to read the forum rules, specifically this one:

    Discuss the films, not the fans who post here. If your comment is directed at a user or a group of users, just don't post it. It could lead to waters that are better left unsailed. Treat your fellow fans with respect, even if you disagree vehemently with them.

  6. Magic_Al Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 18, 2003
    star 3
    The PT lacks any Han Solo-type sarcasm or renegade attitude in any of the good guys so it doesn't seem as cool to some people.

    Lucas knows what he's doing, though. In The Making of Star Wars Revenge of the Sith. Lucas says (on pages 84-85):

    "If I'd taken the prequel trilogy to a marketing company, Episode I would have started here [with Episode III]?and Episodes II and III woud've been about Darth Vader killing people. But in the end, I wouldn't be able to write movies like that.

    "If you see them in order, it completely twists things around. A lot of the tricks of IV, V, and VI no longer exist. The real struggle of the twins to save their father becomes very apparent, whereas it didn't exist at all the first time [audiences saw Episodes IV, V, and VI]. Now Darth Vader is a tragic character who's lost everything. He's basically a bitter old man in a suit. 'I am your father' was a real shock. Now it's a real reward. Finally, the son knows what we already know.

    "It's a very different suspense structure. Part of the fun for me was completely flipping upside down the dramatic track of the original movies. If you watch it the way it was released, IV, V, VI, I, II, III?you get one kind of movie. If you watch I through VI, you get a completely different movie. One or two generations have seen it one way, and the next generations will see it a completely different way.

    "It's extremely modern, almost interactive moviemaking. You take blocks and move them around, and you come out with different emotional states."
  7. KenKenobi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 2002
    star 6
    The PT lacks any Han Solo-type sarcasm or renegade attitude in any of the good guys so it doesn't seem as cool to some people.

    Exactly.

    And, aside from Anakin, somewhat, there aren't really any complex characters like Han Solo.
  8. battlewars Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2005
    star 4
    good point it seems the only character trait of obi wan is that he gets impatient with anakin, padme wouldve had more if lucas had left in the scenes in aotc with her parents. and what does lucas mean by tricks?
  9. _Darth_Brooks_ Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 4
    IN response to the thread title:

    Because they are disappointing, poorly written, poorly acted crapola.

    Harrison Ford;"George you sure can write this $#!+, but nobody can say it." (I think that's the exact quote. If not, close.)

    Ford went on to improvise some of his own lines to bring Solo to life.


    For one thing, and there's no one to blame but Lucas. All of the salient dialogue from the OT should have been compiled as a starting point for the treatment of the first rough draft. Lines from the dialogue of Kenobi, The Lars, Yoda, Vader, Tarkin and so forth. Especially Leia's memory of her mother...which will now never, ever make sense except to fans trying desperately, strainingly attempt to make excuses amongst themselves in forums such as this, through forced expositions to convince themselves it isn't a problem to the story. The fact is that nothing in the actual content of the movies will ever explain this to an objective movie goer. That's poor story telling.

    He should have considered keeping the continuity more cohesive, and not introduced such superfluously unnecessary concepts as "midichlorians" which are never once even alluded to in the OT. It was just one of many supercillious distractions.

    He should have remembered that even in telling a faery tale there has to be a reasonable degree of plausibility to successfully achieve the willing suspension of disbelief in the viewing audience, usually through decent exposition, perhaps the occasional well placed soliloquy. He should have remembered engrossing drama has more to do with one's characters than their situations, and that situations are used to develop and display the personalities of the characters to the audience.

    Lucas had the opportunity to formulate his story from an endless variety of choices, all of which could have cohesively tied everything together very neatly.

    As it is, the essential elements of TPM and AOTC, even going with the route Lucas chose, could have been condensed into a single movie. All the main points and characters introduced.

    We will never know precisely why the Sith did what they did, what were their motives, what was the basis for the "revenge" that Darth Maul referred in TPM. We will never know much of anything about the Sith, as to who and why they were/are, such as their basic history...not from the movies. All such extrapolation is to be gleaned from extraneous sources.

    We will never hear from Darth Sidious/Palpatine his true motives, or how he precisely plottingly accomplished them, or precisely why Anakin was so important to him. We will never get any real clarification on the prophecy of the "chosen one," or anything more indepth on Anakin's fatherless creation. What we have are a series of almost casual mentions. A series of plot points presented but never really gone into in any sort of relevant fleshing out, clues to "the mystery of the Sith" that are never actually connected in a logical way within the dialogue by any character.

    An example is the Sifo-Dyas plot point, and the erasing of Kamino from the Jedi archive data banks. Originally the name "Sido Dyas"(or something similar) was to be used, and then subsequently in an apparently reasonless script revision altered to "Sifo-Dyas" for the released movie. At least in the original draft the audience could put 2 and 2 together, and determine it was a play on the name "Sidious." Instead we come to find out there actually was a Jedi Master named Sido Dyas, who was killed years before, leaving the audience to intimate foul play. "Sifo Dyas" wasn't in the TPM, nor even mentioned. The name came out of the blue in AOTC. We know Dooku has something to do with the selection of Jango, but the relation between Dooku and Sifo Dyas will forever remain an unsolved mystery.
    Fundamental story drafting would have perhaps presented an actual Sifo Dyas in TPM, instead of one of the other numerous Jedi Council Masters seen on screen who were otherwise superfluous to the story, and never seen or mentioned again in AOTC. For that matter Dooku could ha
  10. redsabreanakin Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2005
    star 5
    Han solo/harrison ford DID NOT make the OT, and The PT is doing just fine without him in it.
  11. _Darth_Brooks_ Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 4
    In your opinion.

    My opinion, and that of many others, differs dramatically from yours...and that may be all the drama the PT is capable of eliciting.
  12. redsabreanakin Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2005
    star 5
    that's right.
    you have your opinion and i have mine. Harrison ford is great actor (boring personality in interviews though), and he made Han solo is role (personally i equate him more with Solo than Indy) and the OT needed a character like him; but i've never beleived that one character made those first three movies great; and since we already had the sarcastic character in one trilogy; I don't think we needed another..
  13. JK33 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2003
    star 4
    The BIGGEST reason that many people do not like the prequels is....?

    There is no real threat. In the OT, there is a sense of dread and peril around every corner. In ESB, the Empire dominates the Rebels, leaving the audience to anticipate the conclusion for three years.

    Furthermore, Vader was quite the classic villain, present throughout the entire trilogy. He embodied evil, and his power was well shown from the beginning of the trilogy.

    In the PT, the audience knows the outcome beforehand. While it is fun to see why the OT occurred, there is little suspense. You know that Anakin will become Darth Vader, you know Palpatine will become Emperor, and you know that Obi-Wan survives to the OT. Even in ROTS, when Anakin and Obi-Wan meet, we know who must win...yet this is considered the most significant scene in the saga.

    I like the PT, don't get me wrong, but I think these are some reasons why many others do not.



  14. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    My opinion, and that of many others, differs dramatically from yours...and that may be all the drama the PT is capable of eliciting.

    I would appreciate it if people would speak only for themselves and not for "many others". Nothing bugs me more than when someone tells me "dude everyone likes that band" or "no one likes this". Try speaking for yourself as that is the only opinion you own.

  15. -_-_-_-_-_- Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2002
    star 6
    I really see it in this way.



    Those whom think the PT should adhere to the story arc and style of the OT are basically attempting to place a round peg in a square hole. While they're a part of the overall saga, they're different and serve opposite purposes in the grand scheme of things..
  16. _Darth_Brooks_ Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 4
    I would only say that I did not intiate this thread, nor have a hand in crafting it's title.


    "The BIGGEST reason that many people do not like the prequels is....?"

    Such that, a critique of my use of the word "many" seems unduly out of place, particularly in a thread with such a title.


    I am merely a candid respondent.

    It might be suggested this thread should be locked if individuals who respond directly to the title are to be criticized for doing so.
  17. NeoBaggins Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2003
    star 5

    "I think all the people who grew up with the OT don't like change so they think it sucks."

    That is a narrow-minded and insulting statement. On top of that its grossly inaccuarate.

    I think some may not like the prequels because they lack emotion, are poorly written, have forgettable characters, stiff performances, are riddles with plotholes, and do not connect to the story in which they were made. That may be the thinking of some who arnt crazy about the flms.

    Some may think the films should be leagues better than they are. Theres three years in between each film. The films are largley CGI. What is all that time taken for, writing?[face_laugh]
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