The Blackhole/Shadowspawn Connection

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How much of that information is accurate, and how much out of date? Is Blackhole still officially Lord Shadowspawn? Or has the information about Blackhole's being a geriatric who dissapeared superceded it?

Where was the stuff about his being an old guy in one of Gunray's chairs set out? Was he one of the False Prophets or the true organisation, the Emperor's Secret Order?

Is the connection between the darktroopers of Sedriss etc. and the Blackhole troopers valid?

And is their any information on the being not mentioned here? Was the compaign against Shadowspawn not led by Luke? Was not it a precursor to Ackbar's thrust into the Core? Was Blackhole not once the Head of Intelligence?

He's a particularly obscure part of the continuity, I know, but also amongst the oldest, and clearly a major aspect of some of the greatest of SW's "untold" stories, even more so if the once most popular theory of his otherworldly properties are reinstated.

 

Well, let's see. The Darktroopers ended up as Carnor Jax' bodyguard...

Follow that one through, maybe?

An Emperor's hand holding high rank in Imperial Intelligence and also acting as a subordinate of Darth Vader, with a cloak and somewhat banana-shaped headgear, and a hostility to Luke Skywalker...

Lumiya!

- The Imperial Ewok

 

It all makes sense...

 

Black Hole is one of my fav Imperials.

 

Terranix:

It is strange that there is so little info on this very important campaign. It was the precursor to Admiral Ackbar's major campaign to take the Core. General Skywalker pretty much captured some Inner Rim worlds that would be used as starting points for the Core invasion. I have no idea how many forces were involved, but it sounds like it took place on several key Inner Rim worlds.

This is one of those topics that I wish some author would write about.

--Adm. Nick

 

While Blackhole was originally from a comic, his backhistory wasn't known until the Emperor's Hand's article in Gamer #5, and later reprinted in the Rebellion Era sourcebook.

Black Hole is not shadowspawn. Though in an early draft of Emperor's Hands article that almost occured, he would have been.

In later drafts of that article however Blackhole became a discrepid old man that required a life support to live.

The shadowspawn = black hole info was never released in any official published source, and only exists as concept art for the Gamer #5 article up on the artist's website, which was replaced by the final drafts of the article, and a different piece of art.

IIRC, Dan Wallace, or Abel Pena once mentioned a rumor(which he mentioned he didn't know for sure) that has it that the Dark Empire's sourcebook's Lord Shadowspawn info is an in-joke based on one of the Author's rpg characters, which may be why it was never expanded upon beyond just one or two lines in any other sources.

 

Where might this concept art and concept article be found, then?

Is the DSSB info invalid?

 

What info?

 

"Where might this concept art and concept article be found, then?"

At the artist's website. Though I don't remember where that is online though. The concept article has not been released. Though the artist makes refrence to it under his concept art on his website. Abel Pena discussed the concepts in a thread in this forum as well.

Another unused bit of info that was removed from the early drafts was a bit that that Ruhk was an Emperor's Hand, and was ordered by the Emperor to kill Thrawn. But that part of the article along with its related piece of art was not allowed to be published either (perhaps having to do with the fact that one of the requirements for being an Emperor's Hand was being human according to the RPG).

"Is the DSSB info invalid?"

What DSSB info are you referring to? The only info in the DSSB that talks about some of the stuff you discussed, like info about the prophets of the darkside, is the same info from the Gamer #5 article as far as I know.

I don't remember anything about Shadowspawn, or Darkhole being in that book, though.

 

Right- so do you have the artist's name, or anything?

Nick

It was the precursor to Admiral Ackbar's major campaign to take the Core.

Yeah, the period seems basically to have been the Rebellion's takeover of the galaxy. I believe this stuff happened about one year after Endor- I'll have to try and work out what happened chronologically. There was Endor itself, then the events of Truce- then I believe came the events of the Son of Palpatine series, with the Grand Moffs, Isard the Prophets and the Alliance all fighting one another- then at the end of this particularly fractal period of time I would assume Luke would have directed the campaign to dislodge Blackhole/Shadowspawn from the Inner Rim fortress worlds, enabling Ackbar to make make a drive from the Outer Rim where the NR's major powerbase was at that time (the fleets presumably coming largely from Mon Cal). Something like that?

Very surprised nothing's been written on it- very interesting period in history, and it seems to be the point at which Luke really cast aside the "adventure" and "excitement" Yoda warned him against in favour of the more contemplative path he seems to have been on since DE.

 

I'd have to pull out my gamer #5, sorry. I think Joe Corroney, though.

What DSSB info are you referring to?

 

Terranix:

Good points.

IIRC, one of the first Outer Rim worlds to be liberated after Endor was Clak'dor VII. According to the EC, a Rebel task force comprised of the captured Ssi-Ruuk battle cruiser Sibwarra and 12 Neb B escort frigates were withdrawn to assist with the liberation of Clak'dor VII, which I assume was liberated by the main Alliance fleet under Admiral Ackbar.

I imagine the Alliance was able to secure the Outer Rim fairly quickly, as most of the Imperial fleet was pulled inward to protect key Core worlds like Kuat, Fondor, Corellia, and Anaxes.

Luke's mission must of been pretty important, from a military standpoint. The main Alliance fleet could not of invaded the Core without some supply bases in the Inner Rim. Once Luke and his forces secured some key Inner Rim worlds, then Ackbar could bring the bulk of the Alliance fleet into the Core worlds with secure supply lines and bases of operation.

--Adm. Nick

 

Yet another dark sider that tried to carve an Empire for himself from the quickly dilapidating one of old, was Lord Shadowspawn (DESB 33). While his name was not familiar among Imperial circles, his visage most definitely was: reminiscent of a living silhouette, Shadowspawn seemed to have been carved from the fabric of the heavens themselves, his body appearing empty like a black void. Yet that same empty shroud, filled with the disconcerting image of a lifeless starfield, seemed to consume and control the very grandeur of space, making him appear larger than the galaxy itself -- for Lord Shadowspawn was none other than the dark Jedi Blackhole25 (EA 11)

I had meant DESB, my apologies. I was simply being a little vague in my manner of asking if the above is at all official.

Thanks for the artist name- I found a website, but no Blackhole concepts to speak of...

 

"Yet another dark sider that tried to carve an Empire for himself from the quickly dilapidating one of old, was Lord Shadowspawn (DESB 33)."

The exact quote in DESB is;

"Some Imperial Factions fought to the Death, such as those under Lord Shadowspawn."

-DESB, pg 33.

That is all that the DESB has to say about Shadowspawn. The same thing is repeated, and expanded upon in EC, and NEGTC, as well, IIRC.

The fact that it was a one line mention in DESB, is one of the reasons that Dan Wallace thinks it might have been merely an in-joke by one of DESB authors. Dan chose to expand upon in it in continuity later on, in his essential guides.

"While his name was not familiar among Imperial circles, his visage most definitely was: reminiscent of a living silhouette, Shadowspawn seemed to have been carved from the fabric of the heavens themselves, his body appearing empty like a black void. Yet that same empty shroud, filled with the disconcerting image of a lifeless starfield, seemed to consume and control the very grandeur of space, making him appear larger than the galaxy itself -- for Lord Shadowspawn was none other than the dark Jedi Blackhole25 (EA 11)"

What is pray tell is "EA"? If the person meant "Early Adventures", none of that quote exists in the comics, and Shadowspawn is not said to be Blackhole in the comic as well.

As far as I know that info isn't in anything, and Abel Pena himself has said in this forum, that his/Dan Wallace's idea, that shadowspawn = blackhole was quelched by LFL, and he had to come up with the alternate version as seen in Gamer #5, and later in Rebel Era Sourcebook.

"Thanks for the artist name- I found a website, but no Blackhole concepts to speak of..."

Ya, apparently he's taken alot of his artwork down. You might try using wayback machine to see if you can resurrect some of his older art.

 

Essential...Armadillo. Don't know. I'm trying to check out the legitimacy of the info in posting much of this.

I think I might try just e-mailing the guy- might have more for me.

 

I think it's "Early Adventures".

Because earlier he uses the initials, "CSWEA". Which is Classic Star Wars Early Adventures.

But only the character of Blackhole is in EA and first shows up on page 11, not Shadowspawn. None of that quote is in Early Adventures either.

 

The much-debated qoute comes from an unofficial source. It's in a cool article over at the SWFA website. I don't remember who wrote it off hand--either Abel or Pablo--but it is someone who now writes for LFL officially. As might be expected, the article is now out of date, and most of the continuity links and theories suggested in it have either since become official or have been officially discounted. The Blackhole/Shadowspawn connection is one of the latter, sadly. Blackhole did not return as Shadowspawn to plague the New Republic after Endor--he dissapeared before the Battle of Hoth.

TC

 

I don't know about Gamer #5, but the EC expands a little on the little bit the DE sourcebook gives on Shadowspawn. It's on pages 71-72 under the General Skywalker entry:

Skywalker lead his troops onto the battlefields of Mindor, digging out entrenched pockets of Imperial resistance. Stormtroopers under Lord Shadowspawn fought to the last man, and Skywalker was dismayed at the bloodshed and unneccessary loss of life.

Less than six months after receiving his general's commision, Luke Skywalker resigned from the New Republic military.

There were several things which lead to Luke's leaving the NR military, but it seems the thing which finally caused him to resign his commision was Shadowspawn's forces senselessly fighting to their deaths. In fact, the NEGtC's Luke Skywalker entry, on pages 159-160, would seem to agree with this and expands a little more on Shadowspawn:

A brutal campaign to free the Inner Rim from Lord Shadowspawn followed, and Luke watched thousands of die. Convinced this was not the way of the Jedi, Luke resigned from the military altogether.

The EC does indeed say there was a military campaign in the Inner Rim, but it doesn't specify that it was entirely with Shadowspawn. The campaign could have been against Shadowspawn and several other Imperial warlords. Here it's clear it was entirely against Shadowspawn.

 

Thanks, Knight- that clears it up a bit. However, I'm sure I've heard it said somewhere that Shadowspawn's domain was the Army rather than the Starfleet- do you happen to know if that's official?

Hmm. Might be worth trying to work out how the Galactic Civil War went after the Battle of Endor from a military standpoint. It does seem a little confused. The initial founding of the Alliance of Free Planets (or something) and SPIN, the nonsense with the False Prophets, the Moffs and the Loyalists, some other stuff, then the securing of the Outer Rim, then digging out the Imperials in the Inner Rim, then a push into the Core, then the X-wing stuff, then Thrawn's fightback, then the emergence of the cloned Emperor and Operation Shadowhand... If a WWII style map was drawn up showing the various offensives and counters then it'd be crazy, I'm sure.

 

According to the EC, the Rogue Squadron comics begin within moths of the Battle of Endor. As for Shadowspawn in control of a unit of the Imperial Navy, Can't help you there. None of my sources says anything about that. But then I don't have Gamer #5 which might say something.

 

Luke's Starfighter Command, why is he leading the NR Army anyhow?

 

Wedge Antillies to Admiral Ackbar: "I didn't join the Navy to become a general, Admiral." LOL!



TC

 

Luke's Starfighter Command, why is he leading the NR Army anyhow?

Generals in the NR military appear to lead any forces no matter what branch they are. Wedge is a General within Starfighter Command in Champions of the Force and he's leading a fleet element. Same in Darksaber. And both he and Lando were leading forces together in DE, both naval and ground forces.