Discussion in 'Community' started by VadersLaMent, May 20, 2013.
Which explains where Gary Gygax got the name 'Castanamir The Mad'.
I'm not huge on either (where's that option? ) but I voted ASOIAF. LOTR was harder to get through (though I haven't read GRRM's whole series).
LOTR by far!
Even though I love both, Tolkien will ALWAYS beat Martin for me.
So a guy calling himself "George R.R. Martin" is beholden to Tolkien?
I absolutely loved LOTR, The Hobbit and The Silmarillion but I had to vote for ASOIAF here. Tolkien is great, it would be absolutely insulting to say that it is not, but Martin wrote the only books that have so far made me react out loud as I read them - and I read them way before anyone ever thought of making it into a series. I found them to be far more immersive and really drew me into the universe way more than Tolkien did.
I somehow always knew that everyone would be alright in Tolkien's works and that we'll get a happy end, except for Sean Bean poor Boromir. I always felt like a distanced spectator or someone reading a historical record, where all characters inevitably met their end one way or another (especially in Silmarillion) so I didn't really care for them all that much. I am aware that was Tolkien's intention to a certain extent, and it really works great but Ice and Fire simply clicked far better for me than any other fantasy novel ever did.
In the end, they are simply two similar yet totally different kinds of things, not really open for direct comparison.
That's one of the reasons I love the Silmarillion (my favorite Tolkien book). Its like reading a extensive and incredibly exiting history book!
Well I love ASOIAF but its not completed and Martin could totally botch it or even never finish so I can't really compare the two. I enjoy Martins prose more than Tolkein's and Martins books resonate with me more strongly.
Tolkien told his story and that was it. Martin is having some Wheel of Time syndrome that started in book 4 so I hope he straightens that out.
But without LOTR, ASOIAF would never even exist.
Actually Tolkien's story is STILL not finished (which is why his son released The Silmarillion and The Children of Hurin after his death). There are SO many incomplete tales of Middle Earth, you wouldn't believe it!
Martin doesn't just borrow from Tolkien. There are references to the Wheel of Time series too: one minor character is named "Jordayne of the Tor," and an even more obvious reference is "Grand Maester Rigney once wrote that time is like a wheel."
Hell, there's even a Monty Python reference in A Clash of Kings.
your really good at trivia
Yes but the main story is done in LOTR. ASOIAF has side stories too that are incomplete.
No. The main story is in The Silmarillion (not the Quenta Silmarillion, mind you, but the full volume). While many consider it is magnum opus, The Lord of the Rings was always meant as a fraction of the world he created. The events in it were very important, but encompassed a time of about a year (eighteen if you count the time skip), while there's about 7,000+ years before that in the Years of the Sun, and that doesn't take into account the untold amount of time in the Years of the Trees and beforehand, which mentions several "ages" passing by (Morgoth's first imprisonment was something like three ages IIRC, though this is obviously another time-skip). As it is the events in the Quenta Silmarillion have a stake at least as big as those in LotR, while the Akallabêth covers the fall of Númenor, another huge event.
In all fairness, you cannot really call any single part of Tolkien's legendarium "the main story" as it is written primarily as a history and a mythology covering a vast breadth of time, with epic events happening throughout, those of LotR being the most recent (and then of course you still get Dagor Dagorath, the Ragnarök-esque final battle). You cannot rightfully call a single event, significant though it may be, ina very long, very rich history, to be more than one small part of a much grander tale.
I personally think that Arwen and Cersei would have been played better by Kate Beckinsale than by their respective actors.
(Has this been done? I'm not reading the whole tread folks)
This man gets it!
Also, I would love to have long discussions about this.
I care more about the characters in ASOIAF, and they're better fleshed out. Goddammit I need to pick up on reading book 2 again.
No. I do that too much already. I need a new thing to gush about to friends, like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles or jam.
(fully agree with you about The Silmarillion being the favorite and the reason why, by the way)
I made it through two and a half Game of Throne books before I realized I couldn't possibly care less about what happened to any of these characters. Martin doesn't seem to care, no matter how much Benioff wants him to care. I don't blame people for getting hooked initially. The series starts off strong, with a great universe and some wonderful narrative hooks. But then it all goes to hell and meanders off into aimless subplots that make it clear Martin has been writing drunk.
You don't happen to frequent the LOTR Plaza forum do you?
Pfft. No. What kind of a geek would join a message board specifically for a fandom?
I see what you did there......
Without LOTR there would be no modern fantasy genre and thus no GOT.
I've tried to read all of Tolkien's books for years- but it is impossible. I can't even get halfway through the Hobbit- the one everyone kept recommending to start off on because it is paced so much quicker than the others and you can skip all the Shire stuff in the beginning with no issue. It's just so boring- the prose isn't engaging and I feel like a bunch of stuff could be interesting but the characters just go through the motions.
ASOIAF on the other hand has always kept me coming back for more. I care enough to speculate about character's fates or about their past. Sure the sex is awful, and GRRM's editor needs to reel him in, but I get all the feels while reading.
I think when answering this question you have to slice off nostalgic likes for books as well as reverence for the fact that one book paved the way for another. There is nothing wrong with the fact your tastes in books change over time. Indeed if they didn't change you'd still be reading Dick and Dora for its rollicking action and dazzling prose.
On top of that, Lord of the Rings and Ice and Fire are apples and oranges. It's not a fair comparison. One was written primarily as a bit of a lark for its author to develop his ideas around made-up languages, and design a new English mythology. The other was written as a reaction to every half-assed Tolkien clone shoved down our throats for the past fifty years or so, and to raise a middle finger to anyone in Hollywood who ever said "We can't do anything on that scale, it costs too much money."
You just know that if Peter Jackson ever got to make The Silmarillion, he would do it in a single two-hour film. Just to mess with everyone.