The Borg - still as good as ever?

"We are the Borg. Resistance is futile. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own."

Chilling.

However, I would very much like to make the claim that Voyager ruined The Borg.

When we first met them in TNG, they were vast and dangerous and unstoppable. When Q throws the Enterprise-D into the depths of the Delta Quadrant in TNG's season 1 episode 'Q Who?', it is Guinan (whose home planet was destroyed by the Borg) who makes the best assessment of the Collective:

"I was not personally invloved, but -- from what I have been told they came through our system like a storm of Jaradan Aser beatles -- and by the time they left, there wasn't much left of our society."

and in conversation with Picard:

Picard: How do we reason with them? Let them know that we are not a threat?

Guinan: You don't, at least to my knowledge nobody has so far.

"Your contact with the Borg came long before it should. When you're ready, it might be possible to establish a relationship with them, but now -- now, you are only raw material to them. And since they are aware of your existence...

It is interesting that Guinan believes that when humanity is ready, a relationship between them and the Borg might be established.

Q himself has this to say:

"The Borg is the ultimate user, with the result that they are unlike any threat your Federation has ever faced. They have no interest in political conquest -- or wealth or power as you know it. They simply want your ship -- its technology. They have identified it as something they can consume and use."

Q however, seems to be saying that humanity will never be able to cope with The Borg - although that could be explained away as a large dose of Q's trademark arrogance.

It is interesting to look at just how closely Trek has stuck to this initial assesement of The Collective.

The reality of introducing the Borg to humanity was realised in the classic episode 'Best of Both Worlds', when a cube made it all the way to the Terran System. It was destroyed, but not without great loss to both the Federation (Wolf 359) and Picard himself.

At this point in the Borg's evolution, they were truly an ultimate bad guy. There were methods of prevention, but no cure. Nothing could shoo them away forever. This was how I liked the Borg. We knew little about them, and they made a nice chage from every other Trek baddies who were usually open to negotiation and reasoning.

The other major appearance of the Borg in TNG came through the drone 'Hugh'. Identity was forced upon him, and he embraced it, however Data's brother Lore was on hand in 'Descent' to take advantage of this group of drones. But even here, Trek was beginning to realise that The Borg could not exist forever as a bad guy without fault, without flaw, and without the potential for defeat. If that were to remain the case, then they would've died off as a feature of Trek there and then. The Borg had to be explored. Things had to change.

Personally, this is something I know was essential, but really really wish wasn't.

In the movie 'First Contact' we meet the ultimate investigation of what makes The Borg Collective tick... their Queen. Beautifully played by Alice Krige, she gave Data's fascination with and quest to become human a truly sinister edge.

"I am the beginning... the end. I am the one who is many. I am the Borg."

"Brave words. I've heard them before, from thousands of species across thousands of worlds, since long before you were created, but now, they are all Borg."

We learn that the Queen isn't just the head of the collective, she is the collective. This is an idea I really like, because it gives the Borg a great 'chop off the head and it will only regrow elsewhere' attitude. The Queen was a wonderful way to retain an interesting character to the Borg and also ensure they still seem threatening and terrible

 

I agree that the Borg were overused. They wound up suffering from what I call "Colossus Syndrome" or even "Worf Syndrome". Both of those characters were big and srtong and such, then they became cannon fodder for whatever new bad guy came along so the bad guy looks like more of a threat. It applies to the Borg, just in reverse.

 

After DS9 started to go downhill (even a little before that) and when voyager came out. I started to stick my fingers in my ears and Hum as to not hear any of the garbage they were putting out.

Voyager's relationship with the Borg was terrible. The borg could have and should have ended up blasting them out of the galaxy. But it didn't happen. I'm not as evil as the borg and I would have given them a lot less consideration. It was bad writing in my opinion. It just didn't seem like a logical decision to me.

Voyager shouldn't have had so much power as to be able to do much of anything against the Borg, considering their location and all the run ins they had. Maybe I need to force myself to watch the series as to unerstand what the writer was getting at. How he or she felt it was a logical plot line.

When someone posts a Voyager thread perhaps I will get the whole rant out, But for now my opinion seems to be very clear.

 

I agree with everything in the first post.

 

The first time we meet the Borg in Voyager I must admit to getting really excited (the episode where they find a dead Borg under a bush towards the end). I loved the Borg in TNG, especially the two part cliffhanger (Best of Both Worlds?).

I agree however, that Voyager ruined the fear that was the Borg - right up until the last episode where Janeway single-handedly destroys all of the Borg while flying a Borg-proof spaceship

Perhaps they finally wanted to end the run of success that the Borg were enjoying, and look towards a new super-enemy for future TV shows.


First contact is still my favourite movie, just edging past Khan because Picard was in it

 

Well, the Borg got dealt a major deus ex machina in Best of Both Worlds because I don't think Trek writers were ready to commit to the Borg. So by the time we get to the Borg in Voyager, they're dull and boring. This is beyond having problems with writer brain bugs. Even demoting the Ferengi to comic relief doesn't annoy me as much.

So here's the problem. The Borg are built up to be omnipotent and you beat them by sending a command to make them go to sleep. I like the episode, but that's still a bit weak. Then we find out in Voyager there have been species resisting assimilation for years. Give me a break. The Borg are dull.

 

By the time I' Borg aired, I'd had enough. It went against teh thing that made the borg really interesting. But Trek has a habit of over-using good species. See: Klingons.

 

When I saw Q Who, back in the day it first aired. I was only young, I was scared out of my mind. And then Best of Both Worlds came along when I was slightly older and I thought the effects were cool.

As I got older and watched more Star Trek, I was just dying to see more Borg. I totally loved First Contact and started buying Star Trek Monthly religiously, breathlessly anticipating the Borg's inevitable appearance in Voyager. I admit Unity was an episode that didn't have the real Borg in there, but there was definitely that chill factor still in there.

And then Scorpion arrived, and that was got me really annoyed. The Borg were meant to be the ultimate villain, invincible aliens that you couldn't hope to destroy with even 40 starships, and there we have Species 8472 destroying the Cubes with one shot. After that, it all went downhill. I had hopes that One would wind up with the 29th century Borg being assimilated and giving us a massive Borg threat throughout the rest of the series, only for that to wind up being a dud.

And Endgame was just a massive insult. I'm hoping that the Borg did survive, eliminate the Borg Queen factor and start kicking ass again.

And another gripe. The cubes in TNG were freakin massive. The ones in Voyager are meant to be the same size, but look so much smaller visually. The Cubes are supposed to be the biggest conventional ships in Star Trek, yet Kazon Carriers and Romulan Warbirds were starting to look bigger.

 

I quit watching Voyager for these very reasons.

 

That still wouldn't have been so bad, if they'd just decided the Borg had run their course and used their destruction to set up Species 8472 as the new ultimate villain, but then they got de-valued pretty quickly too.

 

I wonder giving them a new philosphopy,like "What cannot be assimilated, must be destroyed" would make them a real menace again?

 

Like in Descent?

"We don't assimilate inferior beings. We destroy them."

And those Borg were lame.

 

And in Voyager episodes, whenever you heard the Borg's mantra announced across a communications channel:

"We are the Borg. Resistance is futile. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own."

I always felt like saying, well yeah, but that's not even remotely likely to happen is it.

We're asked to believe that the Borg are still rampaging about assimilating entire societies and cultures but they simply cannot - despite repeated meetings - make a dent in one little Starfleet vessel. It's idiotic.

 

I for one was perked up by the damage the Borg Tactical Cube did to Voyager and the Delta Flyer, only to be beaten by a Borg Sphere and Voyager in the next episode. Nonetheless, that ship was a pretty cool upgrade and I would've liked to have seen them in future episodes, but noooooooo. Back to the old Borg Cube design where they're easily beaten by a flick of Seven's breasts.

 

Well said, evertron! I agree with most of your points. I think voyager should've gotten it's ass kicked by a borg ship. The Enterprise-E and the Defiant having some success against one doesn't bother me too much since both of those ships were a comlpete technoligal generation ahead of the Enterprise-D. Voyager was not as advanced or well armed. The other thing on the voyages series that was retarded was when janeway and a few of the other crew member got assimilated so they could go undercover anf infiltrate the borg. WT*?

 

I'd say the Borg are a good as ever! they can't be ended.

Q

 

Borg story lines are my fav.
First Contact is my fav. too. It's so creepy when Picard can hear them whispering to him.

 

The Borg are like Trek itself. Bland and misbegotten. The Shadows from Babylon 5 and the Cylons from the revised Battlestar Galactica are far more compelling to watch. Drop Trek like the cold feces chunk that it is. Embrace the real deal with B5 and the revised BG. You will not be sorry.

 

That's right! If you like Trek, you absolutely cannot like anything else! You have been warned! Exclamation point!

 

Exactly right, Ignant. When I started watching Star Trek at the ripe old age of about 5, I vowed to never watch any other sci-fi genre ever again. I'm only here at the TF.N to talk all about Star Trek...

 

At the risk of sounding utterly closed-minded, I just couldn't get beyond my view that the Borg were pretty much the Cybermen from "Doctor Who" with better visual effects. At least, the Cybermen as originally conceived.

 

Now nothing exists in isolation. Just because teh Doctor Who had 'robotic bad guys' doesn't mean that every other show is forbidden from having bad guys with technological elements. The Borg, IMO, were a most thrilling proposition.

 

You all make good points but I still like the Borg even if they have been over used. True they are not "all that" any more but they are still cool to look at.

Don't believe that if you like Trek you can't like any other sci-fi shows. I love far to many for that to be true. As for watch B5, that finished before Trek did. plus the shadows weren't "all that" either. Writing this makes it sound as if I didn't enjoy B5 but on the contrary I loved B5 and wish they would make a new version of it.

 

As originally created by Gerry Davis & Kit Pedlar, the Cybermen were originally humans from the Earth's twin planet Mondas. Over time, in order to survive ecological changes and to improve their lives, they gradually replaced their organic body parts with cybernetic ones. In the process, though, they lost their humanity and became a coldly logical species.

Unable to reproduce biologically, they chose instead to travel the galaxy and conquer other races. They would then take those conquered being and turn them into cybermen themselves, thus perpetuating their race.

Sounds rather Borg-like to me, except that they first appeared on "Doctor Who" in 1966. Take from this what you will.

 

I'm not saying they're not alike. They quite obviously are.

I'm just saying that Doctor Who doesn't have exclusive rights over the idea of cybernetically augmented humanoids. Science fiction is ideas built upon ideas. And IMO The Borg, at their route, are a far better execution of the concept than the Cybermen.