PT the box office of the prequels.

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by BoromirsFan, Jul 29, 2011.

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  1. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    There's a discussion going on in the Saga forum on that subject right now--number of tickets sold--and it's still apples to oranges. As someone already mentioned in this thread I believe, before the home video market emerged and movies had a set DVD release date before they were even released in the theaters, they stayed in the theater longer. ANH was in the theater from May until December. Of course it was going to sell more tickets.

    In addition to the lack of home video and lack of ability to watch pirated films on the Internet, movie tickets were a hell of a lot cheaper then, and even "poor college kids" might go for repeat viewings.

    You really can't compare ticket sales in movies released decades apart in deciding whether a movie is more popular, too many mitigating factors in play, having nothing to do with the movies themselves.
  2. JimRaynor55 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2005
    star 3
    I would say that box office is relevant as one measurement of mainstream audience reaction. It's not as direct as exit polling like CinemaScore, though CinemaScore only measures the reactions of people who were interested in going to see the movie in the first place. However, box office needs to be taken in the proper context, which too few people actually do these days.

    I believe the all-time record for ticket sales was 1939's Gone With the Wind. Also something to consider was that the population was far smaller back then, meaning that Gone With the Wind drew in a greater percentage of people. I doubt this record will ever be surpassed, given the much wider range of entertainment options available to people today.

    Entertainment reporting doesn't consider population, number of screens, or inflation, which is a HUGE factor. A dollar today is nothing compared to the value of a dollar from several decades ago. I've taken to looking up old movies' box office performances, then plugging them into online inflation calculators to see what their money would mean today.

    Titanic was not the biggest movie ever when it came out in 1997. The Dark Knight was not even close to the true #2 when it came out in 2008. Avatar isn't the real highest grossing movie in history. The original Star Wars made over $1 billion (that's with a "B") domestic if you consider inflation.

    But the media is always looking for "stories," which is why they report every big hit as the new #2 or #1 of all time.
  3. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Gone with the Wind was my grandmother's all-time favorite movie. Because of that, I know for a fact that it was still playing in theaters when my Mom was a kid, 20 years after its original release.
  4. vong333 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2003
    star 4
    It doesn't matter, the reality of it is that in the domestic box office unadjusted, both Avatar and Titanic are a monster, and on April, the 3-D version of Titanic will be coming out. I expect that movie to really jump up in sales. That Cameron bastard guy. :mad:

    Now as for TPM 3-D, I'm pleased with the initial results. Taken into consideration that the movie has been shown forever on the Spike network, plus the recent blue ray release and of course the kind of backlash that this movie received in the past, the fact that it was able to haul around $43 million both domestic and international cume is outright impressive.

    Hopefully, this movie can get to a billion dollars unadjusted. Yeah we talk about actual ticket sales and all that jazz, but just to see and say that at least finally, a star wars movie finally got the coveted billion dollar marker is joy. GL can finally, I guess enjoy retirement if thats what he wants. Anyways, if this movie can get it, it will become the 11th movie all time in the international box office to have grossed unadjusted a billion dollars. That is no small feat.

    When we mention Avatar, Titanic, Transformers (The last one), Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King, Harry Potter and Pirates of the Caribean, we can always attach star wars to the special list. Then you can bash messa me jar jar binks to death.[face_laugh]
  5. GeneralCeel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2005
    star 2
    My perspective has always been that you can't spend adjusted dollars. And just as movies today have a ticket price advantage, films going back decades have a competition advantage. Today there are more movies release + more competition from other forms of entertainment and accessing that entertainment. The result is that its probably not worth the bother of worrying about it.
  6. MandalorianDuchess Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2010
    star 3
    You're saying GWTW had a 20-year uninterrupted run in theaters? That is not something I had heard before... although I do know that upon its original release, it played in most theaters for well over a year.

    Having said that, the most popular movies used to be reissued regularly back then - it wasn't just Disney doing it, although certainly he milked it for all it's worth. But other studios did it, also, with their biggest hits.
  7. GeneralCeel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2005
    star 2
    BTW: I really miss the boxofficemojo forums....
  8. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I would have to ask or look it up, but I don't think it was an uninterruptred run, just re-released very frequently, like every year or two for short stints. And that would account for box office totals and ticket sales.
  9. GeneralCeel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2005
    star 2
    Well keep in mind that there was no home video and no TV in the days of Gone With the Wind. You couldn't simply pop it in your blu ray player... rather than go to the theater. I'd have to research the history of "re-releases" but even in my 30 years, the average length of a theaterical run has become shorter and shorter. TPM, which ran between May and December was quite a long run by current standards.
  10. GeneralCeel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2005
    star 2
    Monday: $917,433
    US Total: $23,387,365 after 4 days
  11. vong333 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2003
    star 4
    Explain that to James Cameron. His Avatar movie is a monster and there suppose to be two more of those. Not to mention, the re-release of Titanic in 3-D and that one will make more money. TPM appears to be not breaking out in numbers, but holding steady. It's going to really suck when Titanic makes a killing in the 3-D release over this movie.

    Also, I did not like the fact that niether China nor Japan will be getting releases for TPM either in 3-D or 2-D. This might not bode well for the next movies. Since they get cut out from the market this time around, when Lucasfilm comes around to their sense and says heck we need the two most powerful asian markets showing our movies thats when it is going to hit home.

    The Wednesday $615,000 (approximate) domestic box office take does not look very enticing if you ask me. Makes me wonder what the weekend draw will be and if it can even get the billion dollar marker. A huge drop in both the domestic and international markts would be very dissapointing. Very.
  12. MandalorianDuchess Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2010
    star 3
    Interesting article re the TPM 3-D box-office results:
    http://insidemovies.ew.com/2012/02/21/star-wars-phantom-menace-rerelease-3d-box-office/
  13. BoromirsFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2010
    star 4
    why is china and japan not getting a rerelease?

    Oh that EW article is grossly Naive. Why not factor in the foreign totals? It was Pirates of the Caribbean 4's foreign market that gave it the legs to make 1 billion, not the domestic...
  14. JimRaynor55 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2005
    star 3
    I don't know about Japan, but China has quotas for the number of foreign films allowed in their country each year. I doubt they wanted to "waste" a slot on a rerelease of an old movie. And getting cut out of China doesn't really mean much. China didn't allow The Dark Knight either.

    I said it before, box office reporting is generally terrible. As I explained above, very simple but relevant things such as inflation are almost never considered. The international gross is sometimes mentioned (as it should be, since it almost always doubles the total), but sometimes left out for no reason at all. The people who write these articles are looking for stories. With this article, the story seems to be "Was TPM 3D successful or not?" A question that quickly becomes pointless if the international box office is so much as mentioned.

    I don't know why The Lion King 3D has to be the standard for all 3D rereleases. Its success seems rather unusual if you ask me. TPM 3D will probably make about as much as Beauty and the Beast 3D domestically, when all is done. Beauty and the Beast had almost no competition for its target group of families with young girls. TPM 3D was released in a packed weekend (four new releases each making over $20 million, a rare occurence), and had very strong and direct competition from Journey 2. Journey 2 was also 3D, aiming for family audiences while leaning toward young boys.

    Also, as the article itself said, EVERYONE has seen Star Wars. TPM is on cable TV quite frequently. I remembered seeing it on the Spike TV listings just a few weeks ago. And it was only a few months ago when TPM was released as part of the Star Wars Blu-Ray set, the best selling Blu-Ray of all time.

    I ran some estimates myself, and TPM's 3D conversion likely cost in the ballpark of $12-13 million, right around where the article estimated. Conversions usually cost $100,000 per minute, and that rate is in line with the $18 million cost of the upcoming Titanic conversion (a much longer movie than TPM). TPM 3D was practically a "low budget movie." Making $80-90 million worldwide off of a $13 million production budget is excellent.

    EDIT: Lucasfilm is feeling chipper as well. A rep for the studio tells EW, ?It?s exciting to see a whole new generation of fans experience Star Wars on the big screen, the way it was meant to be seen. We look forward to bringing more of our galaxy far, far away to fans in 3D!?

    That's the confirmation that some people were strangely waiting for. As if more Star Wars in 3D should ever have been in doubt. :)

    Also, there's more lousy box office reporting that I forgot to mention above. According to Box Office Mojo, Journey 2 opened at $27.3 million from 3,470 theaters. TPM 3D opened at $22.5 million from 2,655 theaters. So TPM 3D actually made more per screen than its direct rival in that opening weekend, despite being an "old" movie. Of course, almost no reporter will mention this fact.

    TPM did fall quite a bit in its second weekend, by about 65%. But I would say that it was probably front loaded, and overachieved in its first weekened. A typical weekend-to-weekend drop is 50%. If we assume that TPM 3D should've only made as much money per-screen as Journey 2, its first weekend would be a couple million less. Multiply that by 1.5, and you get a two-weekend total that's only slightly higher than the actual one.

    Numbers don't lie, but people can do a lot of funny things with numbers.
  15. BoromirsFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2010
    star 4
    im in the middle of reading your rebuttal. It would be great to convert it into video form, you should do it! The script is there!

    Why don't you make rebuttals for AOTC or ROTS reviews?

    Great job though with the rebuttal, its a very entertaining read
  16. EHT New Films Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2007
    star 6
    Japan has no such quotas, and if that's accurate about Japan not showing TPM 3D I'm pretty surprised. Pretty much everything shows in theaters there, and SW is popular there too.
  17. Drewton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 8, 2009
    star 4
    And on the other hand, overseas on opening weekend, Journey 2 made $10 million more than TPM despite being in half the markets. To be fair.

  18. MandalorianDuchess Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2010
    star 3
    Is it not possible it might be scheduled to open in Japan a little later than other international territories? Stuff in Japan seems to happen at its own pace sometimes, imho.
  19. G-FETT Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2001
    star 7
    I think ROTS opened in Japan quite some time after it opened in Western markets?
  20. BoromirsFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2010
    star 4
    I just hope they can get a release for Japan. TPM got 100 million alone from Japan!
  21. EHT New Films Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2007
    star 6
    July 9th, 2005 according to THIS.

    It's weird, I wonder why that was so long after everyone else. I lived in Japan for a few years, and I don't remember lots of other movies being that much later.
  22. BoromirsFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2010
    star 4
    didnt original star wars open in 1978 for japan
  23. EHT New Films Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2007
    star 6
    Yup, June 30, 1978... HERE. They weren't last that time, though.
  24. G-FETT Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2001
    star 7
    Presumably we must be very close to TPM passing the $1bn mark?
  25. BoromirsFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2010
    star 4
    2 million away from 1 billion. Unless it already has.

    Boxofficemojo doesn't update foreign boxoffice as quickly as domestic.
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