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Arena The Boxing Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Community' started by DarthSubZero, May 15, 2007.

  1. Juliet316

    Juliet316 Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2005
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  2. Jester J Binks

    Jester J Binks Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2016
    So sometimes I feel like I've let my awareness of the sport go out the window. Some names stand out for me, but off the top of my head I have to first make sure it isn't somebody that *used to be good* but is now on a serious decline or, worse, a common last name and it isn't even the person I'm trying to recall.

    So I checked out the Ring Top 10 PFP list out of desperation.
    https://www.ringtv.com/ratings/

    What's your take? Are there a couple of boxers that could be added to that list? There are 3 types of boxers worth watching
    1. Exciting. This can mean quite a few different things, but most associate with high volume punching and/or KO power.
    2. Champion or serious contender (heir apparent).
    3. Sweet science. Not KO exciting, but high skill level.

    Anybody want to throw same names up and which category(ies) you think they check off?
     
  3. Jester J Binks

    Jester J Binks Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2016
    Deontay Wilder was supposed to fight Luis Ortiz for his portion of the HW championship. It probably would have been Wilder's toughest opponent to date (after a series of shameful defenses).

    Luis Ortiz just failed a PED drug test. Now at first glance, you can say Ortiz did this to himself, but he failed because of chlorothaizide and hydrochlorothiazide. I'm not going to pretend I know everything about these medications, but a quick check shows that it is used to treat hypertension. Ortiz is a beast of a man. The type of endomorph that gains 10 lbs of muscle just as easily as he gains 10 lbs of fat. If these were legitimately for hypertension, then that defeats the purpose of drug testing. The whole idea is we don't want the athletes to feel they have to harm their body long term just to stay competitive. But this seems like the opposite result. Asking athletes to risk long term health to stay eligible.

    My eyebrow is raised not necessarily because I'm positive this medication seems legit. People abuse medications for different results all the time. But this just keeps happening to every legitimate Wilder challenger. It conveniently keeps giving him an excuse to fight bums instead of actual threats. And I've heard some talk that boxing is corrupt.

    EDIT: It seems Ortiz had a prescription for these as well. Now I'm fully aware there are ways to get a prescription you shouldn't, but then perform a serious investigation. Look at Ortiz's medical records to confirm his problem. If something looks suspicious, then follow it and don't just go after the boxer. Get the authorities involved in exposing the medical doctors involved. How would you even fake hypertension to get the prescription? If it isn't legitimate, get rid of the prescribing doctor(s) and you don't just make it harder for one athlete to cheat, but probably quite a few.
     
  4. Juliet316

    Juliet316 Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2005
    My thought is, if he (or his people) knew those were on the list of banned drugs and he needs then, why didn't he, or his people (who SHOULD know this, even if the fighter is ignorant) try and get an exemption?
     
  5. Jester J Binks

    Jester J Binks Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2016


    The problem I am having is not that I wouldn't put it past an athlete and his team to try and get away with cheating. My problem is that EVERY SINGLE TIME Deontay Wilder actually ends up in a match with somebody that isn't a pathetic excuse for a boxer, they magically find a way to get out of it with drug testing results. Povetkin, for example, initially had a questionable result. Wilder flew out of Russia (fight venue) so fast that he didn't give them time to go over the results for error. And I recall Povetkin being cleared shortly thereafter.

    This is more about Wilder. I've never witnessed a more protected HW *champ* in memory. He's kind of like the John Ruiz of this decade. Sure, Ruiz managed to hang on to the title for a bit, but his style was so far removed from boxing and was so pathetic to watch that the entire community was praying for the day his belt was taken away.

    There's some feeling that this is a way to protect an American HW champ. A return to the 1950 to late 1990s reign of America ruling that glamor division. That nationalism in truly international sports can become quite a detriment.
     
  6. Jester J Binks

    Jester J Binks Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2016
    Wilder v. Ortiz is off (not a surprise).
    Wilder v. Stiverne 2 is on

    Stiverne lost to Wilder over two years ago. He then had a fight Nov 2015 and not a single fight since. This upcoming fight is Nov 2017, making it two years since Wilder's mandatory has fought.

    Now Stiverne was set to fight Povetkin last year, but ..... failed a PED test. Yes. You heard right. Wilder is not fighting Ortiz because of a failed PED test, so he can fight Stiverne, a proven PED cheat and fat, inactive boxer for the WBC HW Championship.

    Stiverne's PED test failed because of an actual PED. Ortiz failed because of the slim chance it could mask a PED, but not a PED itself.

    The odds of Stiverne beating Wilder is slim to none. If Wilder wins, it means nothing. If Stiverne wins, it just exposes Wilder, but Stiverne will go nowhere with his portion of the title. So a completely meaningless fight that no network wants to televise.

    Meanwhile the "real" HW champ, Anthony Joshua, is fighting Kubrat Pulev. Pulev lost badly to Klitschko three long years ago.

    The only HW fights I want to see right now all involve Anthony Joshua
    AJ v. Deontay Wilder
    AJ v. Joseph Parker
     
  7. Jester J Binks

    Jester J Binks Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2016
    Although Wilder wasn't really fighting a serious challenge, I will give him credit for handling it the way a mismatch is supposed to be handled. He went out there and destroyed Stiverne. I'm not a big fan of becoming a champion (or belt holder) and THEN getting the experience for the top level.

    Wilder definitely made the AJ showdown more desirable. He hasn't proven himself the top guy by any stretch, but he's finally in the mix. I can fault all the lead up shenanigans, but I'll give credit when it is due.
     
  8. Jester J Binks

    Jester J Binks Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2016
    Dana White announces boxing venture, currently obtaining promoter’s licenseInteresting. My gut tells me anything to shakeup the dreadful promoter/organization stranglehold of boxing is a good thing. History tells me any time somebody says "It can't get any worse", it gets worse.

    Alexander Povetkin ban to be lifted to complicate Anthony Joshua vs Deontay Wilder plans
    It is really starting to feel like the so called clean up that PED testing would bring has just turned into a vehicle to corrupt the sport further. Promoters seem to be using it to protect their fighters as equally eyebrow raising events are treated in completely different manners.

    As far as Anthony Joshua v. Deontay Wilder, lots of mixed signals. Can you imagine if in the FIFA, MLB or NFL championship the talk isn't about if Team A can beat Team B, but if Team A and Team B will even have a championship match?

    I like AJ more than DW (by quite a bit). Mainly because DW manages to never fully step up. Even if Wladimir Klitschko was on the sinking end of his career, AJ still faced "the man to beat". But AJ (and his promoter) Are telling DW he needs to fight somebody else first. Just fight DW (or at least Joshua Parker) and give the division what it needs. If AJ destroys DW, then AJ did the world a favor while getting closer to unifying. If DW surprises and beat AJ, great. DW finally legitimizes himself and "gets closer to unifying".

    I'd say the sport was only saved by GGG v. Canelo, but even that went sideways. Maybe Dana White can fix some of this nonsense. "It can't get any worse."
     
  9. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Malleus Maleficarum star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    Just returned home from watching the Cotto/Ali match. Shame Cotto is retiring on a loss but dayum that was some mad boxing.
     
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  10. heels1785

    heels1785 JCC/PT/New Films Manager star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2003
    Bummed for Cotto. Outstanding fighter, grateful to have watched his career.
     
  11. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Malleus Maleficarum star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    Definitely. He was about as "classical" a fighter as we've had in the modern era. Earned his HoF spot for certain.
     
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  12. Jester J Binks

    Jester J Binks Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2016
    Cotto was great - pre-Margarito. He was never the same after that. I think he would have been an equal of the Mayweather/Pacquiao level had he not fought Margarito (or his corner/commission) just caught Margacheato.

    EDIT: Really wish I could recall some of his early fights with his beautiful movements (around 2002-2003). There were a few times where it just looked like pure perfection.
     
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  13. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Malleus Maleficarum star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    His bouts with Corley and Torres during that era were particularly remarkable.

    But, insofar as 2002/03? His early fight against Sosa would be one worth revisiting.
     
  14. Jester J Binks

    Jester J Binks Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2016
    Jermain Taylor also looked amazing coming up and it was around the same time as Cotto. Taylor's boxing talent actually helped him achieve more than his chin should have let him. Really sad that once people realized he would tire in the later rounds (who doesn't?), a few well placed shots would have him crumbling in the corner.

    That really is something in boxing. Once people realize you don't have an iron chin, they realize they can "Rocky" it out to land a few good shots to the chin (see Roy Jones). But until that moment, they look invincible so caution keeps them from getting a 100% attack.

    TBH, I totally forgot about the Cotto fight last night until you posted. Once I realize a fighter is no longer the best of their division any longer, the drama of the fight goes away. The only drama left is hoping they don't fight too long past their prime and get punch drunk. Cotto still had moments and even the form, but you could tell he didn't have the win at all costs drive any more. You just have to have that.

    That's why the Klitschko v. Joshua fight was so good. They were both there to win no matter what. Even though Klitschko was past his prime, he was still good enough that a win against him meant something significant. Just hope Joshua fights Parker or Deontay Wilder next. I'm losing hope that the division could light up again with all the BS excuses to not unify.
     
  15. Jester J Binks

    Jester J Binks Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2016
    Just missed the edit window.

    Probably my absolute favorite thing to watch in boxing is when the boxer has mastered defense and offense all in one move. Where they still have no fear and actually move forward getting the momentum of the punch going as the other boxer is trying to land their punch. They move in centimeters away from getting hit themselves while simultaneously landing their shot clean and in full surprise of the other boxer.

    Cotto had a lot of that in his early stages. Sure, it is partly because they aren't fighting the top 5 level boxer yet, but that is what you are supposed to do on the way up. Not just win, but win convincingly and with style. If a boxer is winning on the way up, but essentially just pulling through, they will most likely be eaten for lunch once they crack that top level. A Cotto was the type of fighter where by fight ten, you knew he was going to be something special.
     
  16. Juliet316

    Juliet316 Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2005
    From WrestlingObserver:

    • We had reported this some time back, but it was made official that the Canelo Alvarez vs. Gennady Golovkin boxing match, maybe the biggest of 2018, will take place on 5/5 at the T Mobile Arena on HBO PPV. The two fought to a draw on 9/16, but most felt that Golovkin won and Adelaide Byrd's scorecard for Alvarez of 118-110 was probably the most talked about bad scorecard of the year.
     
  17. heels1785

    heels1785 JCC/PT/New Films Manager star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2003
    Much excite! Great success!
     
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  18. Jester J Binks

    Jester J Binks Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2016
    I'd really like to see a new setup where each boxer gets 25% of the purse, with the final 50% going to the winner. No talk about which is the bigger draw. Earn it in the ring.

    I'm glad GGG and Canelo are going at it again. Even if the first wasn't a draw, it still needed a rematch because neither *champion* was blown out.
     
  19. Juliet316

    Juliet316 Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2005
    Hopefully they keep Adelaide Byrd far away from the judges table this time.
     
  20. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Malleus Maleficarum star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    Preach.

    I will buy this card the minute it is available but I almost feel as though I need to know the judge "card" before I commit to the actual fight.
     
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  21. Jester J Binks

    Jester J Binks Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2016
    Not that this is a big secret to boxing fans, but I lazily get most of my boxing news from
    http://fightnews.com/

    What about the handful of boxing fans here. Where's you one stop easy source for boxing info?
     
  22. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Malleus Maleficarum star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    I frequent fightnews, as well.

    My sole advantage is my Irish citizenship. I am plugged into RTE and localized broadcasts nearly fulltime while I am in the US. Boxing still makes top story on the 15 o'clock news. :p
     
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  23. Juliet316

    Juliet316 Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2005
    Jester J Binks likes this.
  24. heels1785

    heels1785 JCC/PT/New Films Manager star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2003
    RingTV mainly, Rafael's pieces on ESPN (and his Twitter), and occasionally Sherdog's Boxing section. I prefer Sherdog's site and boards for MMA.
     
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  25. Luke02

    Luke02 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2002
    GGG-Canelo should be great but what boxing needs more then anything else is get Wilder and Joshua fighting stateside ASAP and eventually have them fight each other hopefully still undefeated. Until the heavyweights are really a thing again, boxing will always be playing second fiddle to MMA.