Arena The Boxing Discussion Thread

I hope Pacquiao follows soon.

I think Manny should take, 1-2 more fights, make his money then get out.

He is relatively young, but fighters like Pacquiao, Barrera,and Morales go to war in each fight. They give and take more punishment than the average fighter. It is what makes the fans love them, but is not good for their health.

These guys had a brutal round robin, and each is a hall of famer, for beating one another. I hope Barrera sticks to this as well.

Also....Hatton v. Mayweather is almost here....They are going to do an HBO 24/7 series on them leading up to their fight. I can't wait.

 

Pacman wins a UD.

I read it....I did not see it ....I am out of town!!

 

I didn't see it either. I got to watch the Amir Khan victory over Scott Lawton for the Commonwealth Lightweight Belt, instead. Still, Barrera has made good on his vow to retire.

Peter beats McCline for the "interim" WBC Heavyweight belt.

I don't think Peter will last against the Klitschko's or Chagaev should be fight them, though he could still beat Maskaev in their mandatory fight.

 

Peter isn't in the same league as those two, or even Vitaly.

On another note:

Holyfeild v. Ibragimov this weekend. I think this fight is even right now.

The only thing that bothers me, is that Holyfeild said he would not call it quits if he loses. He is my favorite fighter of all time, and I would like to see him win and retire, or if he loses, retire. There is no shame at losing a title fight to a decent fighter, then retiring.

Also, the most exciting fight:

Juan Diaz v. Julio Diaz. This fight is going to be a war. I like Juan, if the fight goes the distance. If the fight is not that good, HBO is replaying Pacquiao v. Barrera.

 

I like Holyfield, but Russian boxers are on the up at the moment. With his age, I'm not sure Holyfield is gonna win this one.

Incidentally, I'm watching the second Mayweather-Castillo fight on youtube. It's one of the old classics

 

I had a feeling. Holyfield should retire. He's not up to it anymore.

 

I hope he will now, if he can't beat Ibrogimov, he will not stand a chance against any of the other title holders.

 

I actually like Ibragimov. Everything I've seen from him makes him seem like a really talented fighter.

Why does everyone put him down so much?

 

It's not that we put him down. Getting to be a Heavyweight title holder is a serious reflection of his ability, it's just that I (speaking personally) see Maskaev, the Klitchsko brothers and Chagaev as all better than him

 

Oh, and I see Juan beat Julio.

Thought it would be him. He was the favourite of everyone I've talked to.

Oh, and I've just heard that two victims of Joe Calzaghe are lining up to fight on the undercard of the Hatton-Mayweather fight.

So, Jeff Lacy or Peter Manfredo Jr???

(My vote goes to Lacy. He survived the beating he received a lot longer than Manfredo did).

 

I see. I would actually like to see some more of Ibragimov's fights, and what he has in store for the future.

I just wish boxing didn't suck so bad right now It used to be great.

You know what the problem is? Well, there are several. The first is that promoters like Don King have done everything possible to maximize profits and milk the sport for everything it's worth. They exploit fighters, lengthen time between fights to make time for more hype, and engage in all kinds of business practices that have just cheapened the sport. Just look at boxing in the good old days. A champion would defend his title 2-4 times a year. Now it's usually once, or twice at the most.

The second problem? The sanctioning bodies. There are 17 weight divisions now, and four (or is it five?) major sanctioning bodies. That's somewhere between 68 and 85 "champions" in the sport of boxing. It just doesn't work. There are too many weight divisions, the sanctioning bodies do everything they can to remain separate from each other to make more money. That, and pretty much all fights now are Pay-Per-View, with ridiculously high prices.

The third is the danger of the sport. Boxing, as far as long-term effects go, is the most damaging sport, by far. Sure, you'll take harder hits in MMA, but only for 3-5 rounds. Boxers go 10-rounds minimum. In the long run you take alot more punishment as a boxer than in any other sport. Just look at a 38 year-old MMA fighter, and most 38 year-old boxers. Who is in worse shape? Most of the time, it's the boxer.

It's because of this danger that all the talented athletes are pursuing other sports.

So, in summary, the things that are killing boxing go as follows:

(1) Promoters who have worked to lengthen the time between fights.
(2) Too many weight divisions combined with too many sanctioning bodies makes it too hard to follow.
(3) All major fights are expensive Pay-Per-View affairs.
(4) Due to the danger of the sport, the talent has largely dried up.

 

#2 on your list is THE major reason.

The sanctioning bodies are corrupt, and take money from promoters to rank fighters higher than where they really need to be.

I once posted an example (all true) of the WBA moving a DEAD guy up in their ranknings.

There are too many belts, that the sanctioning bodies hold hostage by making fighters pay fees to hold the titles. They also strip fighters of their belts for fighting the best fighters that hold other titles.

I also have to agree with Spike2002. Ibragimov is not as good as Chageav, Klitschko (both), and might not be as good as Peter. He is a decent fighter, but dead weight in my opinion. We need a true champ, with some decent competition. There are too many also rans.

 

I think there are some major changes that need to be made to the way sanctioning bodies govern the sport of boxing. Whatever happened to the good old days when a champion was recognized by the people?

An organization should not be able to "strip" a fighter of the title unless he retires, changes weight division, loses it in a title fight, or spends a period of 365 days or more without signing a fight contract. In the event of a vacated title, the top eight ranked contenders should show off in an elimination tournament. Also, the champ should have his choice of challengers, between the #1, #2, and #3 contenders.

I think those are fairly simple, fairly reasonable rules, and would really clean everything up.

 

I would agree with that, but politics is just never going to allow it.

It's a sad state of affairs when the only recognised number #1 in the Heavyweight Division has to be decided by Ring Magazine rather than a straight up unification fight.

 

A boxing commission has to be made. I think that if the sanctioning bodies were eliminated and replaced with a commission belt, the television dollars and corporate money would follow. There has to be a unified set of rules and regulations, so that corruption and greed don't take over like it has already.

 

How would someone go about doing that, though?

 

In an ideal world, being a billionaire and buying up all the sanctioning bodies, corporate sponsors etc and making your own. Otherwise it's pretty impossible.

 

Maybe we could put our money together. I think I have some change in my pocket... Hold on...

Okay, I have 87 cents. Does anyone have anything to add to that?

 

The promoters should cut ties with these sanctioning bodies. If they make matches for their star fighters, fighting other star fighters from different promotional companies, the belts would not be needed. The public would recognize the #1 fighter by process of elimination. If a commission was formed by all states, the sanctioning bodies would go away, I hope. If other counties followed suit, we could have a Internationally recognized title for every weight division.

The WBA is basically owned by Don King, that is why we see John "the cheating, grabbing, holding, most boring fighter" Ruiz getting title shots and eliminator bouts.

 

So, I was thinking maybe we should organize a thread for the all-time hardest punchers in boxing history.

We could do it like this:

Every voter lists their own opinions on the top ten hardest punchers. The number ten spot administers one vote to the boxer in question. The number nine spot administers two, and so on, until the number one hitter on the list gets ten votes.

This would organize it more realistically, rather than a single vote going to each of the ten, so that the boxers placing higher on each individual's list will naturally place higher on the final list.
I figure we can give the in-thread voting a month before the final list is tallied and posted.

We would have to pitch the idea to the mods, of course. How about it?

 

Sounds good, but as you can see....we don't exactly get a lot of posters in this thread. I think myself and Spike2002 take up about 95% of the posts...

 

Yeah. I'd personally wait until we have some more people posting in the boxing thread. All you'd have would be DRHJ9 and myself arguing between our choices.

 

Well, just for fun, why don't we list our choices now?

Here's my rough, not really well-thought-out list:

1. Max Baer
2. Mike Tyson
3. Earnie Shavers
4. George Foreman
5. Joe Louis
6. Sonny Liston
7. Gerry Cooney
8. Rocky Marciano
9. Joe Frazier
10. Jack Dempsey

 

I would include:

Roberto Duran

Jack Johnson

Julio Ceasar Chavez

Ron Lyle (Most don't know him, He fought a brutal fight with Foreman, sometimes shown on ESPN classic)

Marvin Hagler

Tommy Hearns

On a different note:

Max Baer was shown like a villain in Cinderella Man. I hated that, and could not get past it when watching the film. I read a lot of boxing mags, and biography books on boxing. Most boxing experts agreed (Most notably Burt Sugar) that Max Baer and Braddock actually got along good, and that Cinderella Man was inacurate. Braddock actually called Max B. a dear man.

It bothers me that people who aren't boxing fans saw that film, and thought it was an acurate portrayal of these men.

 

Hmm, I think there are far harder punchers than Jack Johnson. He was definitely one of the greatest boxers ever, but he wasn't really an outstanding power puncher.

Ron Lyle is a good suggestion.

I guess if you're talking about pound for pound hardest punchers Roberto Duran could make the list, along with Rocky Graziano.

John L. Sullivan would be another good choice, I think.

Cinderella Man's portrayal of Baer was horrendous. Max was a great man. He even put Frankie Campbell's children through college.