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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit The "Bring Back Legends" movement -- good or bad for the fandom?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by GrandAdmiralJello , Nov 6, 2014.

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  1. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Since we can't help but talk about it, we might as well have a thread about it. It'll help keep the poor Tarkin thread on topic.

    I'll start off by saying I think it's a bad look and I find the behavior of the movement repellent enough to sour me on its message. I think it's very different to what's come before: the Salvatore death threats were always a species of urban legend, but even if they did occur: they were not part of a movement that embraced that behavior as legitimate. Similarly, there was a lot of discontent over the NJO and beyond: but that didn't take the form of harassment, merely the sharing of opinions. I for one know plenty of people who just moved on from the EU -- didn't read, so why say anything?

    This Legends movement is different. It's rude and pushy and puts fans in a bad light, and has potentially driven off people who agree with them. This includes the content creators too -- who probably aren't thrilled to see their work ended either. They're being targeted for abuse when it's not their fault. If anything, EU fans should be backing the creators of EU and NEU content in hopes that LFL might be encouraged to stay with them (and perhaps even allow more Legends material) -- but I guess solidarity is old-fashioned.


    Missa ab iPhona mea est.
     
  2. Chancellor Yoda

    Chancellor Yoda Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 25, 2014
    What is this movement? Just people who are upset about the New eu and other changes.
     
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  3. Ordo Skirata

    Ordo Skirata Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    Here's what I said in the Tarkin thread:

    What authors have been targeted negatively? The only time I saw any targeting was trying to boycott the new books, and even then they encouraged buying other books by the author.
     
  4. Darth_Duck

    Darth_Duck Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2000
    Does everything have to be a movement these days?
     
  5. Dr. Steve Brule

    Dr. Steve Brule Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 7, 2012
    I think it's important to point out about the "R. A. Salvatore death threats over Chewie" gem, since it's such a lasting claim, that Salvatore himself has said that he never received any death threats.
     
  6. Pfluegermeister

    Pfluegermeister Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 30, 2003
    Of course it does - it makes the cause feel more important than it really is.
     
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  7. cthugha

    cthugha Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 24, 2010
    It's Duros.

    Seriously, from what I've seen of this 'movement', its style and its methods (mostly on Facebook), I don't see how anybody in their right mind could argue that it's "good for fandom". There's nothing it can achieve except casting a bad light on the civil rest of SW fandom -- and maybe serve to vent frustration for some, though I don't really see that as a legitimate excuse.

    Also, there's tons of other hater 'cultures' to compare it to.
     
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  8. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Not buying their newest works does impact their ability to get future work. But I'm not only talking about the authors, but the publishers, editors, etc who also contribute too. It's particularly telling when folks say that they'd actually like the books in question -- it's a little different from not buying a book you've no interest in, which is totally fair.

    I'm also not attempting to tar the whole movement. But some of its members have put it in a bad light, and that's exactly the problem: it alienates folks who might otherwise be sympathetic and it makes everybody else who agrees look bad.

    I don't know what making life difficult for the poor folks who man the facebook page has to do with the movement's objectives. Collateral damage? It just seems petty.


    Missa ab iPhona mea est.
     
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  9. Robimus

    Robimus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 6, 2007
    A like for creating the thread :)

    If by solidarity you mean blind obedience, then yes that would be pretty old fashioned. Thats kinda like saying that just because you liked Hard Contact you have to like Triple Zero, because solidarity for the author right?

    For me it is not just the "Bring Back Legends" movement that is at issue here, it is the storm around it, how not only those within the movement are behaving but those outside of it and those who apparently oppose it. It is also about LFL's decision in the first place and how to communicate that displeasure to them. For every "We won't buy a book in the new continuity" there is a "Get over it, the Legends EU is dead". Both approaches are bad for the fandom because they represent an inability for people to respect each others views.

    Having a say, communicating your displeasure, doesn't automatically equal harassment. I think fans making an animated video of Karen Traviss doing sexual favors for a line of Mandalorians put some fans in a bad light, but I didn't suddenly assign responsibility for that video to every fan that disliked Karen Traviss.

    This idea your pushing forward, the " I for one know plenty of people who just moved on from the EU -- didn't read, so why say anything?" hits the nail on the head for me. That is how some people who are enjoying the new EU want the rest of us to behave - just be quiet and go away.

    I simply don't understand why lobbying for Sword of the Jedi to be published in all these empty months between official releases is viewed in such a negative way. How does it bother you(the fan that wants us to be quiet and go away) at all if Sword of the Jedi gets released in the Legends timeline? Because someone is forcing you to read 200 comments on a facebook page that your have to actually click on to open?

    How is LFL going to know there is a market for new Legends novels/comics/more if people who want those stories don't tell them just that?

    Then I stand corrected on that, but it doesn't excuse every instance of over the top fan behavior that has occurred. I myself have seen people post that they wish Lucas would die - so insert that in Salvatore's place ;)
     
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  10. JediMatteus

    JediMatteus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2008
    the movemnet is ridiculous. Not in what they want, but in the horrible behavior exhibited to get it.
     
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  11. fett 4

    fett 4 Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 2, 2000
    Good or bad, my view would be pointless. Disney spent 4 Billion on Starwars you better believe they want that back with interest and what a few Nerds on the Internet (who are going to see the new films anyway) moan about how there favourite character is ruined, are not a high priority
     
  12. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    I brought up moving on to contrast the behavior of one group of people to another -- you generally didn't see people who disliked LOTF making nuisances of themselves. They just sighed, perhaps vented their frustrations in discussions, and moved on. They didn't try to ruin things for everybody else.

    Re: solidarity -- what's this about obedience? I don't get these allusions to political movements at all. Is this some civil rights struggle? Folks are harassing the same people they want to create stories for them -- in what universe does that make sense?

    This isn't a holy crusade. This isn't a civil rights movement. Give me a break.

    My point was that maybe Del Rey might have actually wanted more Legends too. They spent a lot of time in that universe too. But instead of directing the attention towards saying "hey LFL, let Del Rey release SotJ" these folks are committed to attacking Del Rey. It's silly.

    Missa ab iPhona mea est.
     
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  13. Zorrixor

    Zorrixor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 2004
    This.

    I don't really understand what this is all about either...? I didn't really understand half the posts in the Tarkin thread, as they seemed to reference stuff on Facebook, but beyond that... I didn't get how far-reaching this was? (In the Tarkin thread, I just got the impression it's a bunch of half-wits spamming the Del Rey page or something...? But I keep off Facebook, because my experience with it was, well, just that: a place filled with half-wits spamming things, so I've no context for exactly what this "movement" is.)
     
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  14. JediMatteus

    JediMatteus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2008
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  15. Chancellor Yoda

    Chancellor Yoda Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 25, 2014
    I haven't looked on the Tarkin thread for a while but it sounds like its just fans of EU not being satisfied with how Disney is doing things. To be honest I could care less, because I still read the old EU ( in fact pretty soon I,m going to start reading the NJO series) but if they still make good books I,ll be happy, besides the 6 movies are what you would call my official canon anyways which is maybe why I could care less about this.
     
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  16. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Robimus to clarify before we keep going on tangents, I'm not saying people are wrong for wanting more EU and not being interested in the NEU. People can have what opinions they want.

    I'm saying that the way they're going about it is all wrong. They can and should communicate their opinions: that's their rights as people and as fans. But it needs to be done the right way and directed at the right people.

    Edit: not gonna double post so I'll respond to you again here, Robimus -- I'm not telling people to buy books they don't want just for the author's sake. I'm talking about those folks who outright they admit they'd like Tarkin but won't buy it just to teach Del Rey a lesson. That's what's petty.

    I didn't buy Allston's LOTF and FOTJ books because I didn't like the series, not because I wanted to force them to do something else. And I actually did get two of his books in LOTF anyway before I decided I couldn't take that series any longer.

    Missa ab iPhona mea est.
     
  17. Robimus

    Robimus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 6, 2007
    Your skipping over rather large aspects of the issue at hand. These people were buying all these books, they were contributing to the careers of the authors, publishers, editors, etc.

    LFL/Disney can't escape criticism here. I bet if they had actually continued the Legends universe, on top of introducing the new canon, the damage would be hardly noticeable. People would be far more willing to give something new a chance if it didn't come at the expense of what they had.

    It is no different than me coming along and chastising you for not caring about Aaron Allston because you didn't buy his LOTF or FOTJ books. (Hypothetically)Were you trying to impact his career and put people out of work by skipping those novels because you didn't like the direction the universe had taken? Were you not making a statement with your buying power if you didn't purchase those novels?

    These people aren't doing anything differently in that regard, but they are being louder about it.

    OK, so how would you recommend that they go about this? How should they get heard?
     
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  18. Zorrixor

    Zorrixor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 2004
  19. Tim Battershell

    Tim Battershell Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    from:
    http://www.flamesrising.com/interview-with-author-r-a-salvatore/
    May 30 2006
     
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  20. Ordo Skirata

    Ordo Skirata Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    The movement is just trying to get Del Rey and Lucasfilm to produce more legends content, in addition to the current canon content.

    Ehh, what death threats? The only time I can recall those being associated with Star Wars was with Salvatore.
     
  21. Stymi

    Stymi Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2002
    Derailing the Tarkin thread was like 97% of the fun. I no longer have interest in this conversation, and I have no idea what I should talk about in the Tarkin thread now :p
     
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  22. Crossjon

    Crossjon Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    Jul 15, 2014
    This is my biggest issue with this movement; I'm not opposed to the idea behind it (more legends books), in fact I would love that. My issue with them comes from they way they're trying to achieve their goal. Attacking Del Rey will accomplish nothing but make EU fans as a group look bad, and give Del Rey's PR guys/girls headaches. What they should be doing is contacting LFL directly and politely explaining to them why they should create more legends stuff, along with online petitions to show that there's still a fan base for it.

    Basically a couple thousand EU fans got really mad about the legends announcement and decided that obnoxiously spamming anything that a LFL or Del Rey employee might see would get them more legends stuff. It's gotten to the point that a lot of them think they're at war with LFL and DR. :rolleyes:
     
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  23. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I would not tell people what to boycott and what not to boycott, and by all means it's worthwhile to let Disney know if you want more Legends content. There are productive and civilized ways to do that and I guess those aren't happening on Facebook.

    Given that posters here get reported for trashing Mara Jade (and to be fair, the same happens regarding Ahsoka Tano and she's not a Legends character), I'm not surprised about Facebook.

    But again, productive/good for the fandom only if done right.

    I've been going back and forth between Legends books and NEU books since A New Dawn was released and I never let causes stop me from enjoying anything so there's that.
     
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  24. Lady_Misty

    Lady_Misty Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 21, 2007
    I had become dissatisfied with the LEU after a certain point. At first i didn't mind LotF but after a certain point I got sick of some things in it. That ranged from Boba Fett's storyline that I didnt think belonged, Luke and Mara's terrible parenting and how they took things. I couldn't even read FotJ and what I heard I wanted to bang my head against something. At one point I wondering if they 'jumped the shark/sarlacc. And honestly I don't know if part of discontinuing the LEU was the simple fact that it was tangling itself to the point that it was beginning to choke on the tangled plot threads and long forgotten characters.

    I DO wonder if perhaps it was discontinued to help avoid confusion with the new characters. There has been some speculation that Daisy Ridley's character's first name is Kira and her last name is Solo. If she is a Solo than what are the odds that Kira and Jaina have different personalities? There is a chance that her last name is Luke's daughter either making her a Skywalker or she has a different last name. This would mean something different. And lets not forget the rumors that surround the storyline of Ep VII.

    And maybe the post RotJ books weren't selling well. I don't know.

    Regarding the fans tha twant the LEU to return from the little I have heard about them they DO givve the calmer ones a bad name.
     
  25. Darth_Duck

    Darth_Duck Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2000
    I haven't read Tarkin, but is there anything in it that would prevent them from slapping a "Hey Guys, This Work Is Totally Compatible With Legends" sticker on it? Can something new be produced to fit both worlds? Would that be bad? How could it be worse than now, both sides are stuck with Attack of the Clones. Seriously, Attack of the Clones.
     
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