The British Politics Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by DarthKarde, Apr 8, 2003.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    When are these elections?
  2. DarthKarde Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2002
    star 5
    When are these elections?

    Today!

    The polls are open for another 3 hours. Local election results will start coming in within an hour or two, although most of the large councils are not counting until tommorrow morning. The London election results will be in tommorow evening and the European election results will be in on Sunday night.

    The reason for the long delay with the European elections is that counting onlt takes place after all of the EU nations have voted and most will vote over the weekend. Only Britain and The Netherlands are voting today.
  3. Darth_Asabrush Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2000
    star 5
    Yeah, its tradition that elections take place on Thursday over here.

    I voted about an hour ago. Tory for the European election and Green for the local.

  4. foofaspoon Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 1999
    star 2
    Voted a couple of hours ago. I always find elections quite exiting (?) - I do get annoyed when people don't vote if they can. Its our chance to have a say... perhaps I'm to much of an idealist about this!

    Anyway, was debating with myself right until I put those XXXX's down who I would vote for.

    Tory for the local's was the easy choice, but I succumbed to temptation in the end and voted UKIP for Europe! Liked what Michael Howard says on Europe, think he's got no chance of succeeding though.
  5. Darth_Asabrush Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2000
    star 5
    Do you not think he (Howard) has more chance than UKIP? I truely believe that the UKIP vote will only damage the Tories.

    Anyway, I respect and agree with your sentiments about not voting. I believe that there should be a space with "none of the above" so at least people can register their opinions.
  6. G-FETT Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2001
    star 7
    Well, everybody has their own choice about who they vote for, but I really can't see the point of voting for UKIP. They will never become big enough to create a credible challenge, though I admit, they are helping spark more debate.

    But ultimatly, there is only one party Tony Blair truely fears, and thats the party the can bring about his down-fall, which of course, is the Conservative Party. People very much had it in their power to send a serious message to Tony Blair at this election-If their had been a massive swing to the Conservative Party, Blair's very future would have been in doubt. But, I guess ultimatly, depite everything, there is still something about Blair that people find slightly attractive. They are just not prepared to turn back to the Tories on a massive scale. Which, I guess is about two things, ERM and the events of September 1992. Plus Gordon Brown is still managing the economy well (though I think storm clouds may well be gathering)
  7. DarthKarde Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2002
    star 5
    I actually agree with UKIP, I just don't think that they can achieve anthing. It doesn't matter how many UKIP MEP's we elect, they can't do anything to get us out of the EU. That being the case a vote for UKIP would only damage the conservatives. I will also never forgive UKIP for Teignbridge. Their role in the defeat Patrick Nicholls destroyed any moral authority they had.
  8. G-FETT Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2001
    star 7
    Not to mention Robert Kilroy Silk, surely one of the most odious men in the UK! [face_laugh]
  9. G-FETT Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2001
    star 7
    Why is it as a Conservative on an Election night, I always end up feeling like slitting my wrist's, when I watch the TV coverage? :eek: [face_laugh]

    Oh for 1992 again, when all those pundit's were forced to eat serious poodo. [face_laugh]
  10. G-FETT Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2001
    star 7
    As DK predicted, Labour HAS lost it local stronghold of Newcastle, to the Lib Dems.

    The projected share of the vote, is:

    Conservative 38%
    Liberal Demorcrat's 30%
    Labour 26%

    Not sure how that relates into numbers of councilours?

    If that was followed into a General Election it would cause give the UK a hung parliment. But of course, it's highly unlikely this share of the vote would continue into a General Election. Even so, I would say this vote has been a bit of a disaster for Labour. the first time a governing party has EVER come third in an election. :eek: If the Tories had reached the 40% mark, it would have been a complete disaster for Labour. It's been bad, but perhaps not as bad as it could have been....
  11. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    Do the tories who run for the European elections have a "EU Skeptic" stance generally?

    What do they have to say about it? "Send us there and we'll fix it" or what?
  12. DarthKarde Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2002
    star 5
    Well all the council results apart from Birmingham and Walsall are in and those don't look like changing a great deal.

    Conservative gains of 12 councils and 263 councillors were in line with expectations, good but not good emough to indicate a general election victory. The plus points are that the party now has three metropolitan councils. Trafford was a good result, victory was a must but the margin was impressive and Dudley was a superb win. However IMO the best result is one that will be barely mentioned and that is Coventry. The city was and still is NOC but conservatives have exactly half of the seats and will form a minority administration. This is a largely induistrial city that is Labour heartland in anybodies book and it is huge success for the conservatives to be running it. Elsewhere Monmouthshire was a very good win because it gives the party control of a council in wales and Tamworth was a good win beacuse it was somewhere that no one had even considered as a target. Disappointments included failing to win Vale of Glamorgan (one of only two targets in wales), Calderdale (controled by the conservatives during Hague's leadership) and Redditch (a conservative target that Labour ended up gaining).

    As for Labour, losses of 464 councillors and 8 councils was a very bad result but no worse than expected. Losing Newcastle was a devastating blow, it almost defies belief that the flagship council of the North East is not in Labour hands. It is hard to overstate how badly that result hurt. Losses in Cardiff, Swansea and ST Helens are almsot as bad but they held on in Manchester and Sheffield and at least regained Rhonnda Cynon Taff and Caerphilly from Plaid Cymru. Labours heartlands were hit badly but they were not devastated.

    It was a strange result for the Lib Dems, they had some spectacular performances and had a very good vote percentage yet only gained 132 councillors and lost 2 councils overall. These strange results are beacuse they won so much support in Labour heartlands instead of on marginal councils where they missed out.

    Incidently although the final result has not been declared and counting has stopped for the night, Birmingham is going to remain NOC with labour as the largest party. In a quite astonishing achievement Labour has recovered in it's inner city (largely muslim) heartlands that switched to the Lib Dems last year. The Lib Dems were confident of repeating such successes this year and failing to do so is catastrophic for them. The poll has however been marred by some very credible reports of widespread abuse of postal ballots in the inner city areas. See this article from the local paper and tonight John Hemming the Lib Dem leader on Birmingham council has strongly hinted that his party may take legal action.

    EDIT: Conservatives have just gained Walsall giving them a 4th metropolitan council.
  13. G-FETT Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2001
    star 7
    Walsall is an astonishing result for the Conservative's isn't it? :eek:

    Overall, these results, I think are in line with what was expected. And what this tells me, is that the General Election, should be fairly close, Labour will win, but with a much reduced majority.

    Politics is interesting again. ;)
  14. G-FETT Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2001
    star 7
    So, in a few hours time, the Euro Results will be announced. It will be interesting to see if things are as bad for the Conservative's, thanks to UKIP, as many fear. It will also be interesting to see if Labour show any signs of recovery in the only true "national" vote of these "Super Thursday" elections.

    Only a few hours to wait. ;)
  15. DarthKarde Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2002
    star 5
    Walsall is an astonishing result for the Conservative's isn't it?

    Indeed it is. The results in the West Midlands conurbation as a whole have been a huge success. Of the 7 metropolitan borough's the Conservatives now control Dudley, Walsall and Solihul and will run Coventry as a minority administration. Labour on the other hand control only Sandwell and Wolverhampton and will probably continue to run Birmingham (where we are still waiting final confirmation of the results) as a minority administration. In terms of councillors (assuming that the Birmingham figures don't change when the last re-counts take place) Labour have the most with 219 but the conservatives are not far behind with 197. The Lib Dems have 58 and others have 5. Now compare these figures to the last general election where Labour won 25 constituencies compared to the Conservatives 4.
  16. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    Ouch.

    Someone who understands European and british politics will have to answer this, but what are the chances apparent Voter dislike of the EU will have a real effect on the national elections?

    I'd also like to point and laugh at the voter turnout, as it seems so many like to do at the US.

    Ha ha!

    Okay that's done.
  17. DarthKarde Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2002
    star 5
    Someone who understands European and british politics will have to answer this, but what are the chances apparent Voter dislike of the EU will have a real effect on the national elections?

    In Britain's case Europe will only be one of many issues at the next general election and according to almost every opinion poll it is not one of the really big issues. The economy, crime, education and health are almost always rank as the most important issues. For many conservatives like me the defining issue of our time is Europe, but that view is not shared by a majority of the population.

    I'd also like to point and laugh at the voter turnout, as it seems so many like to do at the US.

    But most people don't care about these elections. The European parliament is nothing but an expensive talking shop. Turnout in general elections is much higher.


    Anyway following the local elections the conservative party has strengthened it's position as the number one party in local government. It's almost impossible to maintain accurate figures for British local government because with nearly 22,000 councillors there are many defectitions but the best figures put the number of councillors as follows

    Conservative: 8032
    Labour: 6659
    Lib Dem: 4736
    Others: 2202
    SNP: 181
    Plaid Cymru: 180

    and councils controlled

    Conservative: 151
    Labour: 94
    Lib Dem: 30
    Ind: 19
    SNP: 1
    Plaid Cymru: 1
    NOC: 144
  18. Darth_MacDaddy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2003
    star 4
    I'd like to say that I was very pleased at the UKIP vote at the recent Euro-elections and it certainly brought home a few truths to Europhiles who continually say that Euroscepticism is an extreme and damaging ideology. The simple fact is - the majority of British people are inherently anti-European in varying degrees from you have no contact with the EU, to, lets integrate with the EU no further than we already are.

    As a Conservative voter, I am not really worried by the UKIP performance (yes I did vote UKIP in the Euro-elections) because I firmly believe the majority of UKIP voters will fall back in line with the Tories come the next GE. I just feel that people saw the Euros as an oppportunity to make a statement about there discontent with the EU and hope that this will be a wake-up to the main parties. We all know that the Labour party are far too ignorant to listen to the voice of the public (and to be quite frank, they treat public opinion with utter contempt IMO, you only had to look at some of there comments about the local and euro results), but the Tories, who I feel are more inclined to stand up against the EU, may take lessons from this result and I hope they turn out stronger as a result.

    All Howard has to do now is present the Tories as a suitable alternative against Labour's pathetic public services and law and order record. To be honest I'd rather see the Communists in power than endure another term of this Labour shambles.
  19. Branthoris Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2002
    star 3
    Yes. There was only so much bullshit I could take from Patricia Hewitt on Sunday night. It's amazing how that woman has the ability to carry on talking nonsense irrespective of events. She's symbolic of why this government needs to be removed.
  20. Darth_MacDaddy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2003
    star 4
    The one that made me laugh was that woman who is the culture secretary (seriously her name has completely gone out of my head!!) who was saying she wasn't worried about the performance of the government - it was the Tories who'd had a bad night!! Wait there, the Labour party was pushed into third place in the local elections (the first time in history a government has suffered this fate) they lost 400+ councillors and god knows how many councils and the Tories has a bad night - get real! Its this kind of attitude that makes me hate the government, it seriously thinks that the general public are idiots, and by talking crap and lying they can get away with anything. They also find it very difficult to answer questions with a straight answer, they always have to turn around on the "18 years of Tory rule" blah, blah, blah. One thing is for sure the 18 years of Tory rule left the country in a much better state than they inherited it from the prevoius Labour administration, however it is amazing that the Labour government overlook this clear fact time after time.
  21. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    So what's been the political response about the British sailors in custody in Iran? Is it getting much covergae? Much response from the government?
  22. Mozza Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2002
  23. DarthKarde Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2002
    star 5
    So what's been the political response about the British sailors in custody in Iran? Is it getting much covergae? Much response from the government?

    It's been a typically British response. No silly posturing or playing to crowd, nothing but quiet, behind the scenes diplomacy.
  24. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    And it looks like it paid off. Great news to hear the Iranians will release them. :)
  25. Darth_Asabrush Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2000
    star 5
    Yep, no need to shout our outrage from the rooftops.

    It will be remembered but all that counts is that the boys are free and safe.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.