main
side
curve
  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Senate The Bundy Standoff

Discussion in 'Community' started by Lord Vivec, Apr 19, 2014.

  1. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    Since 1993, a cattle rancher in Nevada named Cliven Bundy has been in a legal dispute with the US Bureau of Land Management over his cattle grazing on federally owned land near his ranch. The BLM claims that Bundy doesn't have a grazing license to use that federal land and therefore owes decades worth of fees to the federal government. Bundy maintains that since his cattle was grazing that land before the rules were changed, he shouldn't have to pay anything. The federal government has repeatedly tried to get him to pay his debt, however he has refused and doesn't recognize the federal government's authority. This ended up going to a court battle: United States v Bundy

    Late last year, United States v Bundy was decided, and Bundy was ordered to remove his cattle from federal land and pay the debt within 45 days or the BLM would have the authority to come on and sieze the cattle. As federal agents moved into Nevada in March of this year, closing off roads and preparing to safely move the cattle (which would later be auctioned off to pay the debt), Bundy sent a letter to local and state governments titled "Range War Emergency Notice and Demand for Protection."

    In April, several protests started breaking out. There was a minor protest on April 10th. April 12th, however, armed militias showed up in a major protest. They blocked a highway and tensions mounted between the militia and federal agents. A former Arizona Sheriff, who was siding with the militia, reported said they were planning on putting women in the front so that "if they're gonna start shooting, it's going to be women that are gonna be televised all across the world getting shot by these rogue federal officers." The protesters and militia set up on the highway, seemingly ready for a violent confrontation with federal agents. However the BLM backed down, saying there would put the round-up on hold for now.

    Nevada governor Brian Sandoval, among other Nevada politicians, have sided with Bundy against the federal government, claiming the BLM is using intimidation and violence. Tea Party groups, libertarians, and sovereign citizens have all sided with Bundy as well. The armed pro-Bundy militia have yet to disband; they are still set up and heavily armed on the interstate highway where April 12th's standoff occurred.

    So the question remains: who is in the right? Bundy or the BLM? Is the government using fear and intimidation to take away Bundy's cattle? What should the government do next?
     
  2. Rogue_Ten

    Rogue_Ten Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2002
  3. Rogue_Ten

    Rogue_Ten Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2002
    also brian sandoval is the creepy hispanic republican governor of nevada. we're still stuck with jan brewer down here in arizona. we WISH we had a creepy hispanic republican for a governor. we cry ourselves to sleep at night praying for a creepy hispanic republican governor.
     
  4. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    Fixed*

    To be fair, this could totally be happening in Arizona. :p
     
  5. Rogue_Ten

    Rogue_Ten Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2002
  6. EmpireForever

    EmpireForever Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Mar 15, 2004
    What shocking turn of events could have led to this?
     
  7. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2008
    President Obama should give a speech saying the protestors are in the right. They'll hand over the cows more or less immediately afterwards.
     
  8. DantheJedi

    DantheJedi Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 23, 2009
  9. Rogue_Ten

    Rogue_Ten Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2002
  10. Valairy Scot

    Valairy Scot Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2005
    While I don't think it's established if or if not the Feds were using intimidation or jack-thuggery, it seems one thing is clear: Bundy is wrong. He's lost multiple court cases on this, he has held a valid lease (not ownership, lease of the BLM lands - our lands, if you will) and yet refuses to abide by the terms of the lease (pay the fees).

    He claims as well that the land rightfully belongs to the state, not the Feds, and his family use of these lands predates the "Feds ownership claim" and he's merely taking back what is his.

    Linkee: http://www.thewildlifenews.com/2014/04/14/cliven-bundy-has-no-claim-to-federal-land-and-grazing/ with excerpt below:

    By Ralph Maughan and Ken Cole In the acrimonious case of Cliven Bundy, it is important that folks understand a bit about the history of the U.S. public lands. Cliven Bundy, the rancher whose cattle were rounded up and then released by the BLM over the weekend, claims that his family has used the land in question since 1880 but the Nevada Constitution pre-dates this by 16 years. When Nevada became a state in 1864, its citizens gave up all claims to unappropriated federal land and codified this in the state’s Constitution. The Nevada Constitution states:

    Quote:
    “Third. That the people inhabiting said territory do agree and declare, that they forever disclaim all right and title to the unappropriated public lands lying within said territory, and that the same shall be and remain at the sole and entire disposition of the United States; …..”

    Seems to me he has no leg to stand on but appeal to the states-rightists who distrust the Feds.

    (IMHO he's also stiffing the rest of us - the American public who here are the "Feds" wanting their due lease fees)
     
    Sauntaero and darth fluffy like this.
  11. duende

    duende Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 28, 2006
    SOUTH'S GONNA RISE AGAIN

    I MEAN THE WEST

    THE WEST GONNA RISE AGAIN
     
  12. GenAntilles

    GenAntilles Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2007
    It's dangerous when people think they can refuse to do what the government tells them to do.
     
  13. duende

    duende Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 28, 2006
    thank **** for danger.
     
    epic likes this.
  14. EmpireForever

    EmpireForever Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Mar 15, 2004
    I can't wait for Jesse Ventura to get all over this. Unless he already has. I don't know I'm just trying to make a joke.
     
  15. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    GenAntilles is not saying people should be mindlessly obedient. He's saying we are a country of laws. Bundy got a full chance to make his case before the course. He exercised his rights as a citizen unhindered, and wielded the legal process to benefit. He still lost. At some point, if he wants other people to invest in the system and abide by it, he must do so as well. That's how we're a society.

    Do you care to make point, or are you going to continue with one liners?
     
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  16. duende

    duende Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 28, 2006
    i'm going to continue with one-liners. if you have a problem with that, come on over to my house and we can sex it out.
     
    Rogue_Ten and Mr. K like this.
  17. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
  18. Violent Violet Menace

    Violent Violet Menace Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2004
    I can't figure out which expletive you're referring to here, which in turn has triggered an interesting puzzle for me to solve. Are you thanking digestive waste, the act of coitus, the male genitalia, the female genitalia, the religious-mythological realm of punitive afterlife or none of the above? And what role does it play in the facilitation of danger? These questions will make for a week's worth of riddle solving fun for all ages.
     
  19. duende

    duende Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 28, 2006
    i'll save you all that. it rhymes with "duck".
     
  20. Lazy Storm Trooper

    Lazy Storm Trooper Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 18, 2012
    The "Feds" are in the the right.
     
  21. Condition2SQ

    Condition2SQ Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 5, 2012
    My thoughts from the very beginning have been:

    Memo to the GOP: When your main electoral problem going forward is how increasingly out of touch you are perceived to be with the concerns of everyday voters, it's probably not the best idea to make a cause célèbre and martyr out of an old rancher trying to protect his cattle with the help of an impromptu private militia dressing in Revolutionary War garb.
     
  22. Mr. K

    Mr. K Moderator Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 1999
    suck?
     
  23. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2002
    I find this case too boring to do much research, but if they're trying to make him pay fees from before those fees were instituted, that's wrong. Otherwise, **** that guy. The Feds should just recognize the sovereignty of every "sovereign citizen" and immediately declare war on them.
     
  24. Harpua

    Harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    Southwest.
     
  25. DarthTunick

    DarthTunick SFTC VII + Deadpool BOFF star 10 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2000
    Even if this Bundy fellow is in the wrong, as tax/fee evasion is low on my list of crimes to take umbrage over, this whole episode is rather boring to me.