Clone Wars The Captain Rex thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by ArrogantJedi, Nov 23, 2009.

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  1. QuangoFett Force Ghost

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    Same here. I didn't like how it was handled when, in one of the Republic Commando novels, a Null-ARC Trooper butts heads with a COMPOR officer. The COMPOR guy randomly tells the ARC that clones are inferior scum, which is surprising because you'd think a space fascist who loves unencumbered state violence and executive power would appreciate the Republic military a bit more, particularly this particular clone officer who regularly kills people extrajudicially both for his government and for his own private/family interests in the ultimate example of uninhibited military overreach and corruption. It's ridiculous that this particular clone is the one who takes a principled stand against the COMPOR guy for his political views. He should be buying the COMPOR guy a drink.

    The speciesism and authoritarian tendencies of some clones should not be sugarcoated like that. Rex may have a definite sense of honour and Boil's speciesism was deliberately contrasted against his later soft spot for a Twi'lek kid, but I wouldn't mind seeing a clone trooper or group of them go all "My Lai" on a population of sentients towards which he feels a degree of bigotry.

    The problem of having too many clones go rogue, particularly before ROTS, is that it calls into question why Palpatine decided to create them in the first place and why the Republic policy-makers other than him even keep them around.

    Defective yet deadly clones who break free? That actually sounds like a cool idea.
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  2. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

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    [face_rofl] brilliantly stated.
    Last edited by CT-867-5309, Nov 25, 2012
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  3. Seerow SWTV★Manager

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    It would be interesting to see how the republic would deal with a clone or two or three just going nuts and massacring a group of people (I mean a big group of people) for whatever reason be it bigotry, good old fashioned human fear, or a simple lose screw. Talk about a PR nightmare. Imagine if the republic populous started wondering if a clone could go nuts and just kill anybody? Start giving those shock troopers like the ones in "Duchess of Mandalore" odd looks when they walk past, even start trying to provoke them.
    Last edited by Seerow, Nov 25, 2012
  4. Coric Force Ghost

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    He is dead. Why would they let a traitor clone live? There is no reason at all.
  5. Hero of Tukayyid Jedi Knight

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    Because the Republic is not the Empire yet and he cannot betray them twice.
  6. Seerow SWTV★Manager

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    There is no proof Slick or Dogma are dead or alive at this point in TCW, so... it could be. I tend to think Slick is dead. I can see where Dogma might have gotten off though, thanks to Anakin. He didn't sell info to the enemy after all.
  7. QuangoFett Force Ghost

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    The Umbara episodes made it clear that laws sanctioning the execution of clone traitors are on the military justice books, even without a court-martial if necessary.
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  8. Seerow SWTV★Manager

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    Anakin is the monkey wrench in sanctioned laws of clone traitor execution. He'd walk in, defend his man, explain what happened, walk out with his arm around the guy. Atleast win it comes to Dogma, Filoni made it sound like he was executed but I still have this feeling in my gut we'll see him again or he'll get some kinda of shout out down the road.
    Last edited by Seerow, Nov 26, 2012
  9. QuangoFett Force Ghost

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    I don't think Anakin looks too kindly on seditionists.
  10. Seerow SWTV★Manager

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    I was talking about Dogma. Sorry. I took a call, came back and edited my post.
  11. QuangoFett Force Ghost

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    Yes, Dogma would probably have Anakin's support, for all that's worth. There are other interests involved, however. Kaminoans would want to see a defective "product" decommissioned. Palpatine would worry that Dogma could blow lid off the Order 66 scheme. The Jedi Council would have problems with a clone taking it upon himself to be judge, jury and executioner of a Jedi, though they'd obviously be the least hostile interest due to Krell's treachery.

    Slick is almost certainly rotting in a ditch somewhere on Christophsis.
  12. Seerow SWTV★Manager

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    But aren't we also having discussions here about rogue clones and slaughering people for personal reasons and stuff like that? Isn't all that stuff going to undermine the Kaminoans sales pitch and make people suspicious of the clones anyways? Dogma far as we know is one of two isolated incidents and is not the same as Slick who completely screwed over his company and the republic in the process.

    So he shot Krell? Krell was at the end of the day a traitor. It doesn't have to be a Jedi anyways. A clone could have just as easily shoot the annoying slug man in the new promo for the next episode. A signle clone shooting a Jedi who is clearly a traitor doesn't automatically lead to suspicion all the clones will turn on the Jedi (like will eventually happen). I think a much bigger, higher profile incident of outright treachery against a Jedi, something like an unprovoked slaying or mutany or even a slew of killings would be needed to really create a big commotion and a big investigation. For all we know since nothing has been mentioned the Jedi just swept Krell under the rug. The Kaminoan help desk was never contacted. Anakin has plenty of sway to save his man.
    Last edited by Seerow, Nov 26, 2012
  13. Hero of Tukayyid Jedi Knight

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    Slick was probably locked up for a while and analysed, being the first clone traitor and all of that.

    I wonder what do they do if you are adeserter or are a traitor if you are a fromer juidicial. Do the same rules apply to you as do to the clones?
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  14. Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan Force Ghost

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    The show does not show it but the Republic can be just as cruel and even worse than the CIS at times.

    Dogma is not dead, he is locked up at best since he followed orders and executed a traitor.
  15. Seerow SWTV★Manager

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    Wait, what? Followed orders and executed the traitor? Dogma just grabbed Fives' blaster and shot that bastard out of pure hate. There were no orders to do that, bro. Nobody in that group was ordered to execute the traitor. Rex was just thinking he had to do it to protect Krell turning over secrets to the Separatists if he escaped.
    Last edited by Seerow, Nov 29, 2012
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  16. Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan Force Ghost

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    Well, Rex was trying to shoot Krell anyway so I think Dogma did the right thing... just a little faster since Rex was hesitating.

    Story-wise Dogma did a huge crime by killing off such an interesting character.
  17. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

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    or he was too dangerous to be kept alive
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  18. Seerow SWTV★Manager

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    Rex was going to execute Krell because he was "To dangerous to be kept alive." as Vader said. He simply wasn't able to do it. Dogma being insane with vengeance was able to circumvent whatever programming was there to prevent a clone just shooting a Jedi. Clones show their humanity with the way they break after severe emotional trauma. For some its more than others.

    Krell was a prop character. He fulfilled his purpose and was offed. There is only so much you can do with a guy who pretty much exists to hate clones and be as mean as hell to them and just throws clones at razor wire over and over. What would he have done as a Separatist villain and Dooku's new apprentice?
    Last edited by Seerow, Nov 30, 2012
  19. Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan Force Ghost

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    Krell was too awesome to be killed off.

    Dogma was an prop character if you ask me.

    What TCW has shown us that Rex would hesitate and not kill him. He just wouldn't... Rex is not a heartless monster.

    He would have done a lot as a Dooku Acolyte.
  20. Seerow SWTV★Manager

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    Dogma was no prop character. He had a very defined role. He was a monkey wrench to Rex. Fives, Jesse, and Hardcase. Believe it or not Dogma was an individualistic as any clone so far. He just used it differently and lived up to his name.

    Rex is not a guy who typically hesitates to kill even when begged for mercy. He killed the Umbaran trank driver although that guy already seemed to be mortally injured and of no threat. Then lets not forget when Rex owned the head slaver in "Escape from Kadavo" a few seconds later. Krell was a special circumstance for a few different reasons. I'm sure for Rex it was a clash of his strict self imposed moral code (which was changing at the time) and whatever programming is there to prevent a clone from shooting a Jedi.

    Seriously @Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan? How much would Krell have done as Dooku's Acolyte? There really wasn't much compexity to him at the end of the day. Krell would have been just another evil minion of those evil Separatists rather than a choatic good, gray area villain which would be really refreshing for TCW.
    Last edited by Seerow, Nov 30, 2012
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  21. Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan Force Ghost

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    If Dogma had, Krell did too.
    He was just to blind to break the chains of command.

    The umbaran was a mercy kill for an enemy that tried to kill everybody and he did not care for them and they were not a jedi.
    Agruss the Keeper was also a Separatist monster that sacrificed innocent people and a JEDI "ordered" him to kill Agruss.

    The same way Maul or Ventress work or have worked. And Krell is a very fun looking character. Dark Jedi are always interesting to see in media.
    Another enforcer for Dooku is always welcome.
  22. QuangoFett Force Ghost

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    Krell technically was not a Separatist, just a turncoat against the Republic.

    He was much better as an outwardly Loyalist Jedi who sees the clones as inferior and who has become disillusioned with the Jedi Order than he would have been as a Separatist. As a Separatist whose role in the series would have been the same as Ventress', Krell would have lost what made him interesting and would have lost the intriguing dynamic between himself and the clones. As Seerow said, if they're going to create a Separatist Jedi character then this character should be one that lives up to Heroes On Both Sides and is most definitely not someone so lacking in honour and ethics like Krell.

    As for Dogma, he's a character of many shades of grey. He's most definitely not a prop character. He's dogmatic and inflexible up to the point when it is made clear that the General he has been serving is a manipulative traitor, after which he snaps and the unstable, uncertain Dogma emerges. He hinders his superiors after they decide to subdue a traitor. He kills the antagonist for the wrong reasons, without justification beyond vengeance. Notice how his final lines are: "I had to [kill Krell]. He betrayed us." This hidden side to Dogma - the clone who irrationally and impulsively kills someone to avenge his brothers - is revealed in that moment.
    Last edited by QuangoFett, Nov 30, 2012
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  23. Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan Force Ghost

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    So maybe Krell and the entire arc should have been done better so Krell would still be alive but still hate the Clones and cause them problems.

    It would have been nice if he was alive and with the 501st for several seasons until the clones finally get sick of him.


    OR as you say as Jedi who leaves the Republic joins Dooku but is not Batsh** crazy and wants to kill everybody. Just feels that the Jedi have lost their way or something like that.
  24. Seerow SWTV★Manager

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    No, Krell having survived this arc would would have been detrimintal to it. Again, Krell is a prop character. Krell getting shot to death at the end is a major factor in what gave Umbara its pay off. Its only after that Rex is sitting around talking Fives like - "What the hell just happened? The hell are we doing fighting this war? What's going to happen to us." That was big, yo. Krell had it coming.

    God damn, another story line that takes four seasons to come back around to is exactly what we needed, huh? I'm glad this got resolved in four episodes so we can move onto the next big thing for Rex and the 501st clones.

    A Jedi leaving the republic and joining the Republic does not have to be pure evil. I rather imagine he'd be like Kambei from Samurai 7. Upset because he had to kill people and alot of friends and troops died. Upset at the corruption. That there is even a war and the Republic is picking on poor defenseless people completely justified to leave.
    Last edited by Seerow, Nov 30, 2012
  25. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

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    Krell would have been awesome as a recurring Republic Jedi General foil. Making him an eeeeeeevil Separatist was an incredible waste.

    The Krell from the first two episodes of the Umbara arc is my second favorite character in the history of the show, second only to Ventress.
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