Clone Wars The Captain Rex thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by ArrogantJedi, Nov 23, 2009.

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  1. Gwilty Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2010
    Idk I just have a feeling that they will end it with Obi-Wan and Anakin flying off to rescue Palpatine
  2. MistrX Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2006
    star 4
    Having seen "The Deserter" again the other day and reading into some comments Filoni made on the Forcecast, it wouldn't surprise me if Rex does end up deserting rather than following through on Order 66.

    Then again, Filoni has also implied that, as the movie hinted, Order 66 had something of a Manchurian Candidate quality to it and that maybe it was something of an indoctrination in the order.
  3. LawJedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2009
    star 4
    Everyone keeps mentioning the Manchurian Candidate as proof that the clones won't be able to resist Order 66, and lose their individuality.

    Hasn't anyone actually seen the end of Manchurian Candidate? [face_whistling]
  4. MercenaryAce Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2005
    star 5
    Probably one of those stories every has heard of, but few actually saw.

    Then again, lots of people saw the end of Romeo and Juliet, and it is still mostly referenced in terms of romance.
  5. MistrX Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2006
    star 4
    ...the remake..., but the point is Lucas seems to be hinting that Order 66 wasn't done completely of the clones' free will.
  6. LukeTano Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2009
    star 3
    But somebody has to desert the Empire and save Ahsoka and Ventress from the Sith.

  7. MistrX Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2006
    star 4
    It could happen. Though I don't think Ventress will need saving. If it holds true to the EU, she'll already be gone.
  8. LukeTano Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2009
    star 3
    Hey, maybe Ahsoka saves Rex's life shortly before Order 66 is issued. Then when it is, he knows he'd be dead if it weren't for Ahsoka, he disobeys the Order.

  9. Swashbucklingjedi Game Winner

    Game Winner
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2010
    star 5
    are you saving Ventress now as well?:p so where is S.O.H.H "Save Our Hairless Harpy"? I could join:p Asajj is not just evil- she is tragic character- i'm eagerly waiting for her new backstory:) ..... Well some of the great three has to die Rex, Ahsoka or Ventress -all cannot stay alive- all are missing from Rots... from those three i would say let's kill Rex- he is made to die for the Republic- let him do his duty:cool: Ventress may die if it's absolutely necessary and Ahsoka- well she can survive many ways as pointed out before[face_peace] ...


    Clones supposedly were robotic- programmed people before Filoni and others came up with idea of personal clones for this new series "They aren't just a faceless stormtroopers" But that's exactly what they originally were Dave:oops:

    Well now it's proved that clones aren't completely programmed- they are persons and capable of compassion and all- but at the end they were still loyal to the Chancellor and not the jedi....

    One of the biggest TCW-retcons is personal clones if you ask me... ok they aren't all just faceless soldiers anymore- but i like the way Cut Lawquane pointed out that clones are "programmed to believe"- so Rex, Waxer, Slick, Hevy, 99 and Cut at least are unusual clones with failed programming (in 99s case they failed his body too)... it's kinda natural that programming living beings don't always work and experiences create personalities... but TCW-clones are making order 66 less believable- so yes- it needs explaining in this show because of that....

    Disagreed- it's one of the most epic scenes in saga:cool: "Execute order 66!" "Yes My Lord" damn what epicness
  10. MercenaryAce Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2005
    star 5
    Considering how many times Lucas has overturned ideas or even entire episodes on a whim, I seriously doubt they would have kept the number of episodes spent humanizing the clones if he didn't approve. To same nothing of giving Clone commanders individual names and customized armor in Episode 3.

    Plus, Filoni is hardly the first author to humanize the Clones. Heck, the trend started with the very first comics and novels to come out after episode 2.

    And I must also question your standard of believability. Humans are not machines, they cannot be programmed. Brainwashing is total sci-fi BS, the human mind is too adaptable and unpredictable for any implanted message to work reliably. You can't hide important information away from the conscious mind: it will just get deleted and forgotten.

    But humans can be indoctrinated. They can have their ideas of right and wrong completely shaped by what they are told, if they are told it enough time since they are young. The clones don't see a conflict between following orders and right, because they have been raised since the moment they were born to believe following orders is right, no ifs, ands or buts. A few clones rejected that as there are always some in every culture that reject its values, especially once they come into contact with other cultures, but it remains true for the majority.

    As for people killing their friends because someone in a position of authority told them to do it: it has happened. it has happened more times than can be counted or imagined. Look at the history of any dictatorship and any civil war, and you will find examples.
  11. Swashbucklingjedi Game Winner

    Game Winner
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2010
    star 5
    I didn't meant that Lucas wouldn't have approved- he did- but idea was new at the time- before that only commandos and special clones like commanders were humanized- well yeah haven't read Traviss though so i cannot be completely sure but it's the picture i've got clones before TCW.....
  12. Phantom_Sith Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 22, 2011
    After reading every post in the forum, granted it's a few months old, but, suffer me will Ya? Did a lot of research before reading this.

    Anyway, I've done a lot of Roleplaying with the 501st, and it's leading members, since I despise inaccuracies, I've had to sort through a lot of the EU, Movies, and TCW stuff. TCW does throw a lot of previously understood facts out the door and says "Tootles!" More recently, Dathomir in the books was a lush planet, now it's a barren tundra. This is among many changes that makes a very difficult to piece together all the mediums of the Star Wars universe.

    First, Rex is a captain, meaning he gets to pull rank on companies, unless Skywalker ends up getting more then a company, but that's usually when Cody or some other commander is around. Anyway, the 501st's start is still debatable. Could have started as a Company, but, in Rookies, I think Rex basically says "Welcome to the Legion." And the books support that we only see a fraction of the 501st in TCW storylines.

    With Appo, he trained with Cody, Gree, Bly among others under Jango Fett, and everyone he trained with has their own legion to command, which makes me fairly certain that he got command of the 501st Legion right of training. And I really hope we meet Appo and few the other 501st guys from comics and books in the TCW. I think Appo is heading the Legion although we haven't seen him prior to RotS.

    As for Rex and Order 66. I think you all have forgotten a very important detail. The 501st did not have to turn on their Jedi,(And I really think Ahsoka is killed off prior to it) as their Jedi General is the one that Marched on the Jedi Temple. If Rex lasts that long, which I bet he will, it may come down to individual Jedi. As they have Rex portrayed now, there is no way he'd turn a blaster on Anakin or Ahsoka, probably not even Obi-Wan. Clones are a reflection of their Jedi Generals/Commanders, Anakin wasn't very orthodox, thus Rex wasn't either. Obi-Wan was by the books, and so was Cody---that was noted in Rookies when Anakin and Obi-Wan bickered about the late check-in. It's not that far fetched that Cody would do what he did, just doesn't mean he liked it.

    Rex defecting could honestly go either way, it depends if he knows if Anakin and Vader are one in the same--which is not difficult to imagine since Anakin/Vader marched on the Temple without the suit... and if Rex ol' boy marched with him or not. Rex has said, (I think in No Prisoners) "I'd follow Skywalker anywhere." If he knows Vader's Identity, and Ahsoka is dead, he'd probably stick with Vader since he's worked with the man in the suit for the duration of the war. If he doesn't know Vader is Anakin, he's defected, especially if Ahsoka is alive. If he know who Vader is, and Ahsoka is alive, it goes either way. I usually play it out that he helps Ahsoka, even says she's dead, and still works for Vader. But it's a lot of big IF's here.

    In Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader, which came out shortly after RotS there were Clones that disobeyed the Order because it didn't make sense, they even helped the Jedi escape. Granted, Vader wasn't thrilled with that later on...

    As for the other clones, not all them had good relationships with Jedi. Quilan Vos was despised by a lot of clones in the EU, and I'm sure their were more Jedi that the clones didn't vibe with, which probably left a lot of clone thinking like Slick in distaste of Jedi. Because let's face a hard truth, Jedi and the Republic are basically using 'slave labor.'

    So hopefully, this clears things up... I know I'm not the best at elaborating things.
  13. Phantom_Sith Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 22, 2011
    Oops, Appo, Cody, Bly and others were trained by Alpha-17 who was trained by Fett* Completely forgot Alpha, my bad.
  14. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
  15. Seerow SWTV★Mod

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2011
    star 6
    Hah. Captain Rex didn't die yet in season 4.
  16. sacharias Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2011
    star 2
    Yes, it seems the good Captain has managed to survive another season. I'm glad to have this thread back, in any case. It sure would have been handy during the Umbara arc.

    So... just to stir up trouble (and to keep this thing from falling off the front page already), how many folks actually think Rex will disobey Order 66? And did the Umbara episodes sway or change your opinion?

    Personally I've felt that Rex was being developed to disobey the order since watching "The Deserter." I freely admit that at that point there wasn't a concrete case for that, but that was where I thought they were going.

    After Umbara, I feel more certain than ever that that's the ultimate endgame for Rex, but again, I can see why some other might think differently - what with the whole Krell being a traitorous Jedi angle.
  17. Coric Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2011
    star 4
    I feel it really depends WHERE Rex is when Order 66 is given.. he may be marching on the Jedi Temple, with Ahsoka, or even dead by that point.

    I think if he is marching with the rest of the 501st to the temple with Vader.. he will follow his orders. We have yet to see Palaptine give an order to a clone directly.. I'm curious to see how Rex would follow orders from him.. or any clone pre-Order 66 for that matter.. Was it the ORDER given or the PALPATINE? Are they just following the order or following because Palaptine gave it?

    If he's with Ahsoka.. I can see some hesitation.. that topic has been discussed to death.. so I'll skip that.

    And dead before the order explains itself xP
  18. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    Jun 7, 2011
    star 6
    I used to think Rex would follow order 66. That he'd go into Operation Knightfall. That he would kill Ahsoka. I even used to think Rex was giving Cut programmed responses and the later knew it. That Rex would be a tragic clone character viewers would actually get to know. But that's changed. With the introduction of Sargent Appo it doesn't seem like there is room for Rex in Operation Knightfall. He'll likely be elsewhere. I'll repeat what I've said before. I think Rex's fate is dependent on the length of the show and where in the timeline it ends and ultimately will be determined by whats best for marketing. Rex is worth alot more as a hero. Which means he won't follow order 66 and that's what is being foreshadowed in both "The Deserter" and the Umbaran arc. Rex will either die on screen so kids won't have to worry about what he does if the show ends before ROTS. Or he'll be shown resisting the order and even helping Ahsoka if the show overlaps with ROTS.
  19. SpecialOpsUnit Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 1, 2007
    star 4
    There are too any scenarios that I'm not really worried about right now.

    Ahsoka isn't Anakin's padawan by ROTS, that's all we know. Does the council remove Ahsoka from Anakin's teachings because they don't like how he's doing so far. That would also increase the already high tension we saw in ROTS between Anakin and the council(minus Obi-Wan and Yoda), especially Mace Windu.

    Hypothetically if Ahsoka is released as Anakin's padawan does Anakin ask Rex to go with Ahsoka and be her Captain? Someone he trusts to watch her back? Could be a pretty strong scene, TCW wise. This would also have Appo being promoted.

    Too many scenarios and I'm not worried about it, Rex is in it until the end of the show anyway. I'm more interested in Fives right now.
  20. Coric Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2011
    star 4
    I would really like to see that. It's obvious Ahsoka and Rex both respect each other; you could see that in the Clone Wars movie. If Rex was her captain (or commander) during Order 66, with his boys (Tup, Jesse, Kix, bla bla bla) I truly wonder how it would play out.. You know, they made Osi Sobeck have 3 different endings.. why not (if Rex or Ahsoka die) give them a few different endings as well? If TCW team has several ideas planned.. they could just stick the un-used ideas out in the final DVD for us :3

    Fives! Indeed.. his future is more foggy than Rex's. Probably won't see him again until next season if he doesn't cameo in an episode this season randomly..
  21. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    star 6
    I said this before to. I think its highly likely Wolfpack will be involved with Ahsoka's fate. But I've wondered where Wolfpack will fall in which to my knowledge is a whole clone trooper squad original to TCW. We've got three reoccuring named clones within there and now 2 major clones in the 501st plus Fives. They kinda seem like anti versions of each other. I've often theorized both groups will be combined for Ahsoka if she is knighted or that Ahsoka may end up reassigned to Plo Koon with Rex somehow getting reassigned with maybe a few of his guys. Lol, can you imagine Rex working under Wolffe?

    I don't think we'll see Fives again this season but I'm more hopeful than ever he might survive the series until close to the end. I think he's meant to go along with or help guide Rex down his path.
  22. sacharias Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2011
    star 2
    I agree there's many scenarios, but FWIW, the question I was posing was whether or not folks thought Rex would, or would not, disobey Order 66, and whether the Umbara fiasco changed your mind. Clearly it's far too early to be sure of the details of the show's end, but I think the pieces are in place to be reasonably sure if this one character will or will not do one particular thing.

    You're so cynical. :p But you're also completely right.

    Really? Interesting. In my mind, I find it easier to believe that Rex might turn on an individual Jedi - who would presumably be armed and resist - than to think he'd actually participate in the Temple attack, especially when it comes to killing the children. I don't think he'll do either.

    If Rex was with Vader, I think he'd be in shock and protest once he realized the younglings were to be slaughtered - he's just got too much of a heart to go through with that.

    You bring up an interesting question. Actually, the ORDER can only be given by PALPATINE, so it's really the same thing. But it would be good if TCW showed more "reverence" for the Chancellor among the clones. In theory, he is the highest ranking superior they have - I could see them almost deifying him as the "Republic incarnate". At any rate, I don't think Sidious has any magic involved in the order - he's simply the highest up in rank.

    I hadn't realized that Wolfpack was original to TCW. With that in mind, I agree, it makes a lot of sense that they'd be involved in any Order 66 scenario, and most likely Ahsoka and Rex's fates. It does seem that the Wolfpack is being developed as a foil to Rex, Fives and Jesse. And Rex is not going to get along with Wolffe at all. :p


    Back on marketing et al., while I've believed Rex would disobey Order 66 for some time, this line in "Carnage of Krell" sealed the deal for me:

    Obviously I'm biased, but I don't see how this sort of language could be pointing to anything other than Rex resisting Order 66. I'm not talking about just in-universe reasons - that sort of line has implications that I can't believe were not intentional. Order 66 is already being positioned to be a pivotal moment for the clone characters, and Rex's place isn't hard to figure out with lines like the above.
  23. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    Somebody's gotta say it. I have a friend whose one of those 'Cody Hesitated' people whose holding out hope TCW will redeem him and ignore the ROTS novel and EU. I'm not that bad. He uses that same 'worth more as a hero' argument. Except that actually works for Rexter.
  24. sacharias Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2011
    star 2
    I don't think Cody will be redeemed (in fact, I kind of hope they end up in a conflict if Rex deserts, a la the apprehension of Slick). But that said, if Wolffe is going to be the "bad" clone character, and Rex the "good" clone, then I could see Cody being given more of a conflicted role.

    But I think Cody and Wolffe are going to essentially have the same reaction to Order 66. Perhaps Fives is the more vocal clone against Order 66, and Rex is the conflicted one again. But after Rex's statement in "Carnage" I don't think he'll need Fives to convince him again.
  25. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    I don't see Cody as being the same of Wolff. Wolffe seems to be an opposite of Rex while Cody is kinda in the moderate middle ground. Cody isn't what I'd call a completely inhuman ass. He doesn't yell like Wolffe (so far as I can recall),and he's much more professional. Cody's by the book but he can flex a little. He can be a little lax in command like in Rookies, he'll listen to others' plans, he can make decisions that go against orders slightly like in the Citadel arc where he cover's Anakin. Cody can even see the merit of other and admire them like in "The Deserter". Cody would probably make it farther in "The General" and there would be a shot of convincing him to deviate from Krell's plan. Not so much with Wolffe. Rex is simply on the opposite end as a fully open minded, independent, and questioning Clone but he's got practical intelligence, loyalty, and sense enough to temper it. Ofcourse he's not an extreme. The extremes of him are Fives, Cut, and Slick. And Wolffe is not a total extreme either. Dogma and Appo are extremes in the other direction. I don't know about Sinker and Boost yet. I think Cody is in the middle.

    Fives is going to be the first clone to question out loud any order he doesn't like. He's the ultimate extreme hero still within the army. I think from Umbara on he's always going to be one extreme voice pushing on Rex. It'll be up to Rex to decide whose right. Fives is certainly independent enough to decide not to follow order 66 in a heartbeat. But he seems to really look up to Skywalker. You gotta wonder how that will work out. Fives seems to be talking with admiration when he told his plan for taking out the supply ship to Hardcase and Jesse. Earlier when Rex tossed Skywalker under the bus in "The General" it was Fives who jumped to defend him. Which btw that says something interesting about Rex, IMO. That's twice now Rex has tossed Anakin under the bus. The first time he did it right infront of Mace. I still think Rex and Anakin are buddies, but...

    I tell ya one of the things I hate the most about the Citadel arc is that none of the clones participated in Anakin and Tarkin's debate or discussed what they overheard among themselves or with anyone else. You also gotta wonder what the clones were thinking during Even Piell's funeral. None of their fallen brothers, not even Echo seemed to get a moment of silence. But they stopped and had a funeral for a fallen Jedi. I find that whole thing intriguing. Also when looking for potential foreshadowing like Ahsoka standing between Cody and Rex. And the shot of Ahsoka and Cody looking on together with fire reflected in Cody's visor. Maybe he'll be coming for Ahsoka.

    [image=http://www.ximages.net/images/26986153737100522454.jpg]
    [image=http://www.ximages.net/images/15059411680391242600.jpg]

    I think that second one is my favorite shot from the Citadel arc. Cody and Ahsoka actually worked together a bit in that episode although they never spoke to one another. I think that was the first time in the series.
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