Clone Wars The Captain Rex thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by ArrogantJedi, Nov 23, 2009.

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  1. sacharias Jedi Knight

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    I definitely agree with your analysis - my thinking was more in the reaction to Order 66, specifically. I think Cody and Wolffe would both just turn and shoot. Cody would be more likely to think twice than Wolffe, but it appears he didn't.

    One of the things I like about Rex is that he isn't as "loose" as Fives (or Cut and Slick, for that matter). He's serious and sober about these issues, and while he'll clearly go against his orders in extreme circumstances, he doesn't do so lightly.

    At the same time, even though Rex is more level-headed and loyal, he also seems to be the one clone who actually sees the bigger picture, as we saw with him questioning the purpose of the war. Fives seems to be pretty content with his position, but he wants to do things his way. Rex wants to do what's right, not just for this battle, but for his brothers, for people like Cut's family. For now, he's convinced that being a good trooper is the way to do that, but now he's not so sure.


    Interesting observation. I do think that Rex and Fives admire Skywalker, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if we start getting surprised or doubtful looks from Rex as Anakin continues to make his outbursts. I'd love to hear Rex muse that perhaps the war is wearing on Skywalker, or something of that nature, to show us the transition from a clone's POV.

    I agree - the clones were like props for that episode. The only interesting thing I saw was Rex's sticking up for Ahsoka to Tarkin (which I liked). Other than that, none of those clones needed to be named characters.

    I've always felt that the Echo vs Piell thing is a bit apples vs oranges - Echo was killed in a firefight, Piell died in the aftermath and there was time for brief pause. I don't think Echo would have gotten much in any case other than a moment of silence from those w
  2. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    I don't think TCW will show Cody or Obi-wan during order 66. I think they'll stay away from the actual movie events. I was just highlighting that I feel Wolffe and Cody are no more the same than Cut and Rex are.

    I agree that Rex is the only clone that really sees the big picture. But I don't think Rex just questions the war because he used to be convinced following orders and being a good trooper would save his brothers and keep families like Cut's safe. I think Rex has come to a realization he doesn't understand this war that's all he's ever known when he thought he did. As a result he's realized there is more to it than The Republic winning. He doesn't understand what winning means and what comes after it. I think Rex has also started questioning the role of the clones in the war just as Filoni and Baker said. Rex really does see that the clones have been bred to fight and die in the war. He's doubting there is a future beyond that. You also have to wonder if he took anything Krell said about his visions, the C.I.S. and the republic ultimately not mattering to heart.

    I would like to see Anakin and Rex get a focus episode.

    I still have to wonder if the clones felt any resentment. Do you think they really felt any sorrow?

    I have a habit of looking foreshadowing thats probably not there. Two interesting ones from "The Deserter" are. Its very subtle but watch the breif few and distant frames of when Jek hand's Rex his helmet. He breifly looks into it as he struggles to lift it. The bigger one is when Rex leaves the farm and his helmet is looking back at the family.
  3. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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  4. EHT Manager: New Films

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    "Tonight, on a very special The Clone Wars..." :p
  5. sacharias Jedi Knight

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    Oh, I agree - I was only referring to Rex's past perspective. It seems to me that before Umbara, Rex really did believe in his cause as a clone trooper ("If we fail, then our children...") and in caring for his brothers as a Captain ("I also have a duty to protect those men."). After Umbara, his entire world is shaken, and he now is realizing the picture is much bigger than he thought.

    On that note, I think it's interesting - or poignant - that Rex is asking about the "point" of the war, after the friendly-fire tragedy. From a certain point of view, the Clone Wars in general are nothing more than a friendly-fire incident on a galactic scale. There are some legitimate differences between the Republic and the Separatists, but for all practical purposes, the Clone Wars is a manufactured conflict, and both sides are being played by Sidious just like the 501st and 212th were by General Krell.

    So Rex is really hitting the nail on the head with his question about the war - there is no point to it, and that's the whole point. Rex, his brothers, and the Jedi are all being played, and eventually Sidious will turn them on each other just like Krell did. There's so much depth to that episode - it parallels both sides of Order 66 and the rise of the Emperor (with the clones playing the role of themselves, and - ironically - of the Jedi).

    Hmm... I don't know. The clones often see brothers die by their sides, and they just keep going. I was really grateful that we finally got to see Kix taking care of the wounded, for once. It often seems the medic's role is brushed over. But when a clone goes down, the majority of troopers seem to take it evenly and push on.

    I think it comes down to rank, as grim as that sounds. If Rex or Cody were to go down, there would be a real reaction by the other troopers (and probably the Jedi as well). Even more so when a General falls in battle. But for the average trooper, there usually isn't time to spare.

    Nice catch! Even if it isn't actual foreshadowing, those are nice touches to notice.
  6. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    Rex always believed in the code of the clone trooper and believed he was the same as any clone. Just another part in the running gear of the GAR. If a thousand brothers had to die for the cause including him then so be it. Rex is a tough and ruthless leader in battle but he can pick up on a bad idea when he sees one and will let the person who came up with it know his objections. Even as Rex has changed during the course of the war up until Umbara he continued to try and be who he thought he had to be. Really his encounter with Cut and his family may have streingthened Rex's resolve to do his job and be another part that turns wheels much as Cut served to point out to Rex that he is an individual who has a choice. Umbara moved him passed that to where he's now question his role in it, his future, and maybe the future of all the clones. You know although Rex is asking about the point of the war. I don't think he's fully realized the pointlessness yet. That's the next milestone for his character I think.


    I also enjoyed seeing Kix do his job and his cameo in "Kidnapped" was neat. I suppose your right. But somehow I expected more.

    I think the shot of Rex's helmet looking back at the Lawquane family is one of my favorite coded moments. Its probably not supposed to be anything but its so loaded. It could be a longing to stay. Or that Rex will continue to look back. Or foreshadowing his return. Rex's helmet is special since its come to symbolize a clone hero but at the same times his helmet looks particularly menicing. Maybe it foreshadows that he could be a hero or a bad guy either somewhere out there in space or someday if he returns. Maybe Saleucami will be in one of the final arcs for TCW, the place where Rex will have to make his biggest decision ever. Either way the clone army will eventually return to Saleucami..
  7. Swashbucklingjedi Game Winner

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    ^Many Twi'leks seem to wear helmets of some kind and other random stuff to cover their heads- maybe it's a cultural thing....

    BTW Wolffe is not in ROTS- is he there on Cato Neimoidia or not? He is another clone that can die before ROTS...
  8. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    Lol, shouldn't have bothered removing that from my post last minute. I know that about twi'lik. But Jek's headgear looks like a helmet and sounds 'hard'. Kinda strange. Listen around the 10:31 mark when Cut gives Jek a noogie. It sounds like a cheap bike helmet from Walmart.

    My question was. Why does Jek Lawquane wear what looks like suspiciously like a helmet? Out of universe it looks like an old WW2 army helmet from earth right down to the camo pattern.

    My current personal theory on Wolffe is that he is the Anti-Rex.
  9. sacharias Jedi Knight

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    Wolffe is original to TCW (as is his squad, the "Wolfpack") and is not in ROTS or any other material. We don't know if he's alive or where he is when Order 66 comes around, but some of us feel that he may be the clone commander that executes Order 66 against Ahsoka, and confronts Rex when/if he disobeys the order.

    It's possible that he'll die before then but not likely - unlike Waxer I don't think Wolffe's death would have much emotional impact, since he's not exactly a lovable character. :p

    (@Seerow, I've discovered a few folks on the fanfic site I frequent are also theorizing a Rex vs Wolffe scenario when Order 66 goes down - apparently it's not as unusual as I thought).
  10. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    Wolffe's got the ultimate character sheild as being the clone Filoni personally created and calls his favorite. I think Wolffe may out live Rex. Particularly since Filoni's favorite Jedi can't.
  11. EHT Manager: New Films

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    Very well said. =D=
  12. Swashbucklingjedi Game Winner

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    Uh.... I know all that about Wolffe already thank you- I seriously doubt they would place Wolffe in such a situation- Filoni would but George is still the boss and he decides ultimately.... but it is possible of course.... Wolffe seems to make another appearance during this season... and with a jetpack.... interesting
  13. sacharias Jedi Knight

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    Oh, I'm so sorry! Please forgive my insolence. :p

    Is a situation of having to execute Order 66? Looks to me like the guy was built for that (as all the clones were). Not sure what you're trying to get at. [face_thinking]
  14. Swashbucklingjedi Game Winner

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    Apology accepted[face_skull] I find it mainly humorous though- no offense taken:p

    I'm saying he probably doesn't shoot/try to shoot Ahsoka- I don't believe in "Plo starts to train Ahsoka"-theories while they of course are possible- but I think Ahsoka's story goes very different direction....
  15. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    I guess Swash believed George won't let Dave do anything with Wolffe. Maybe. But why create a whole group of original clones if they aren't going to do anything? An entire group connected to Ashoka by way of Plo Koon. I think there is alot of evidence Wolffe and his pack will have a bigger role in the future and are the prime candidate to execute order 66 against her.

    Ya know Sargent Appo's introduction had implications for Ahsoka just like Rex. Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the General's Padawan currently hold the commander rank Appo needs by ROTS? That really foreshadows that both Anakin and Rex will no longer be with Anakin at that time. I don't think there is room for Rex anymore in Operation Knightfall. Ahsoka and Rex will have to be elsewhere in the galaxy. But most of the 501st is gonna be busy. So it makes sense that the Wolfpack which is not accounted for will be with the rest of the unaccounted for people. Not to mention if you move away from Anakin and Obi-wan your going to need enough original characters around to replace them. The third thing is, while it would be pretty dramatic for Rex himself to get the call on order 66 and have to decide what to do, we learned in the Umbaran arc many clones will simply follow the orders of the highest authority present. I think in this case its more likely Rex would do it. If Rex says don't do it, few will do it. I agree with what sacharias said earlier that its actually easier for Rex to resist if not in charge. If Wolffe is there and gives the order and Rex resists its still pretty dramatic and the resulting fight is going to be more drawn out and epic.
  16. Coric Force Ghost

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    Commander Offee and Commander Gree was never a problem..
  17. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    Then what's stopping Rex from being a Commander? What else is out there to explain it. There can't be a guy off screen that outranks Rex in the 501st. I think we saw the entire 501st under Rex's command on Umbara. But the commander rank must be taken.
  18. Swashbucklingjedi Game Winner

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    Not anything that big I meant....

    They seem to create a lot of original stuff and then not to do much with it. Admiral Trench for example or Ima-Gun-Di (that was created only to die)- or Ziro who died very quickly as well.....

    Wolfpack is something GL let Filoni to do and that by far has no bigger role in HIS "Chosen One"-story like Ahsoka has (due to her role and deeds on Mortis) - Plo's role in Ahsoka's life is Dave's doing- if GL starts to like Plo more then it is possible but looks like he doesn't care really and Dave has opportunity to add Plo and Wolffe sometimes because he likes them- GL seems to think Plo is just like Ki-Adi or Eeth Koth and no more- because Plo still has no episodes of his own- and Wolfpack could've been any clone group in R2 and 3po's story but Dave's favs had time to shine...

    o_O I see no evidence at all- I see only Dave's limited ability to shoehorn Plo and his clones everywhere. Wolffe has never even spoken to Ahsoka alone- him being "the prime candidate to kill her" is very farfetched theory IMO - Riyo Chuchi is also connected to Ahsoka and so is Tera Sinube and Korkie Kryze and yet those may not have any bigger role in her story anymore- why wolfies would have? They are not only named clones anyway just commanded by Filoni's favorite jedi.

    If they are important to George why they never have episode of their own?! I like Wolffe- I don't like Plo but Wolffe is interesting...

    If Plo takes Ahsoka to training (but no council member seem to have padawan anymore) then it is possible that Wolffe kills or tries to kill her, but by far that is just as good theory as anything else concerning Ahsoka...

    Ranks and other military terms are ****ed up in this show- battalions shouldn't be under command of captain and Appo commended big army while as sergeant he should have only one squad -that means only couple of men under him - 9 or so....
  19. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    How do you know anything about what George will and won't let Dave do with Wolffe or any characters for that matter? Please link the interviews.

    Again Swash how do you know Wolfpack does not have a larger role? You don't just like I don't really know if they do. My ideas are based on my own perceptions of what I've seen on screen. Wolfpack has been in a few episodes alongside Ahsoka already. TCW is not the story of 'the chosen one'. Its the story of Ahsoka and Rex. The idea its the story of Anakin or "The Chosen One" is everything that is fundamentally wrong with TCW. How do you know that characters like Riyo Chuchi will never be featured again in the show? Those are all supporting characters really, just like Wolffe and Plo are now. They can come off the shelf anytime.


    I don't see my theory farfetched at all. The idea Ahsoka will leave the Jedi is more farfetched to me. I think your overblowing Dave Filoni shoe-horning Plo Koon everywhere. I wouldn't call Plo the Butters of TCW. Dave did set out to teach casual fans like me who Plo Koon was, the original concept was for Plo and a young Padawan from what I've read. They left some of that story in there but he's not in my face about it. He tries to use characters that make sense in the stories being told. Plo usage makes sense in "Rising Melavolence", "Lethal Trackdown", The Citadel Arc, and the Padawan duology which were all important moments in Ahsoka's development as a character. They make since because he is a character important to Ahsoka's character arc like it or not. But since she is not his padawan for now it wouldn't make since for Plo to appear all the time in major roles. He's not important enough to the story to get his own adventures that would detract from Ahsoka and Rex. Its the same argument I had over Kit Fisto. We can do the spoiled fanboy/fangirl thing all day wanting more of our favorite characters and less of those we don't care about when it really is selfish. I really don't find it a big deal to see Plo sitting on the council making commentary. Its cheaper to use a model they've already got and a regular voice actor like JAT or DBB than to call someone in like Phil Mar who only does a couple voices

    Just because something has not had a 100% focus episode since "Rising Melavoence" doesn't mean they have no role in the st
  20. sacharias Jedi Knight

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    Seerow is absolutely right - Wolffe is one of the few available named clone commanders that Ahsoka can face during Order 66. Fox is a Coruscant guard - Ahsoka's not on Coruscant. Gree, Cody, Bly are all taken. Sure, there's a handful of others, but come on - does anyone think that Ponds or Stone are going to show up for the climactic moment of Order 66? o_O

    The fact is that Rex and Wolffe are the two original clone officers that are both related to Ahsoka closely (and Ahsoka did lead some of Wolfpack in "Padawan Lost"). Those two men both have polar opposite dispositions and personalities (and those polar differences have a direct correlation to their likely responses to Order 66). They are both original to TCW and they are not in ROTS. One of them is a freethinking, independent soldier with a strong relationship to Ahsoka. And one of them (Wolffe) is a coldhearted badass who follows orders to the letter.

    To be blunt, that's as close to "prime candidate" as you can possibly get this early in the series.

    Does that prove that Wolffe is going to turn on Ahsoka during Order 66? Obviously not. But to call such a scenario "far-fetched" is uncalled for and impossible to substantiate, IMO. It's as plausible a scenario as we viewers can ever come up with given what we know.

    Maybe because, I don't know, they aren't main characters?

    Even if she isn't assigned to Plo, she could be assigned Wolfpack for a specific mission. It's happened before.

    It's at least "just as good." And since it also ties together several independent original TCW characters, it is easily better than many other scenarios. Obviously it's speculation at this point. That doesn't necessitate demeaning it.
  21. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    Wow, you put things much more eloquently than I sacharias.

    Lol, I had to google who Stone was, no wonder I didn't remember him. I don't think hardly anybody does. Ponds is dead so it'd be pretty weird if he came back. Maybe he'll get raised from death just to attack Ahsoka. Seriously I was really reaching for named clones. Maybe there really is a kill switch and every damn one of them no matter how independent will just turn into killers.

    Wolffe has been in 9 episodes and as noted is a complete opposite of Rex. "Mercy Mission" seemed to be focusing on developing Wolfpack negatively vs key members of the 501st being propted up as heroes. If Rex's clean face and the jaig eyes on his helmet represent a hero. Then the Wolffe's gray and white lupine helmet and his hideously scared face represents clone evil. "Nomad Droids" even focuses slightly on how Wolffe is helpless to followed order. Plo Koon basicaly gave Wolffe and order to go torture himself by listen to 3P0's story and Wolffe couldn't seem to raise objection. He gave up within in about half a second and resigned himself to torture. Rex on the other hand calls in his own air strikes. I think its only a matter of time before these two guys are going to meet. That's going to be one sick episode.

    Wolffe is IMO the perfect guy to execute order 66 on Ahsoka. Ofcourse this idea would seem farfetched if you tend to think TCW won't run into ROTS and won't deal with order 66. But I think the show is setting it up that its going to do it. There are lot of other things TCW could do to resolve everything.
  22. sacharias Jedi Knight

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    Heh, blame too much time writing fanfic. :p But I try.

    It's a bit simplistic (the helmet differences), but I agree - these two do seem to be being set up as future opponents. I think it's curious that Wolffe is so cold, seeing that Plo Koon seems to be a more compassionate Jedi (though he does get hard on Bobba: "We are justice."). Compared to Commander Ponds, who, despite following one of the most "cold" Jedi (Mace Windu) is at least as compassionate as Rex, in trying to spare rations for the Ryloth refugees.

    Even though the scenes between 3PO and Wolffe were clearly meant for comedic relief, I really wonder if there's more to that last one - like you said, Wolffe seemed utterly confounded, having been "ordered" (not even directly, but implicitly) to listen to 3PO's rambling. He couldn't disobey even a ridiculously minor, inconsequential order like that. I think Rex would have stuck a blaster to 3PO's head and told him to shut up (assuming he was annoyed - maybe Rex would actually find 3PO amusing)

    There really are plenty of scenarios. I like yours a lot, and it seems to have been noticed in other circles, but we still have at least one (probably two) seasons to go. At the smae time, if Rex looks like he's "the" clone to disobey Order 66, Wolffe is the one designed expressly to follow it to the letter.
  23. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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  24. sacharias Jedi Knight

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    Well, considering that Krell was "trying out" for a position as Dooku's apprentice (allying himself with the Separatists even if he wasn't a believer in the cause), Rex wasn't that far off in his assessment.

    That said, I think it's significant that Rex's first accusation was "But you're a Jedi! How could you?" The fact that Rex mentions that specifically (coupled with Fives' assertion that Krell "is not acting like the other Jedi.") shows that the clones are aware of the "higher standard" a Jedi is supposed to follow. Traitors aren't news to Rex - he apprehended Slick, after all - but Jedi are supposed to be better than that, in Rex's mind.

    So, had Krell not gone on to ramble about a "new power is rising", I think Rex would have been able to say that Krell was a Jedi turned bad. If he's ever discussed basic Jedi ideas with Ahsoka or Anakin, he might even be able to say Krell must be a "dark side Jedi."

    That said, I think for Rex and Fives (maybe Jesse, although he never talks much about it) the lesson of Umbara wasn't that "Jedi can become traitors" - something that many of the average troopers may well have come away with - but that orders can be wrong, that "blind loyalty" is not honorable but dangerous, and that there are times when doing the right thing means disobeying authority.

    That's the main reason I'm okay with not getting the Jedi's reaction to Umbara - for men like Rex and Fives, it doesn't really matter. They were both forced to confront questions about themselves and their own role in the war, and the fact that Krell was a Jedi is peripheral at most.

    At risk of changing the subject again, I'm still a little unsure as to how Rex got to questioning the war entirely after Umbara - as you've noted, none of the others clone characters seem to get there. Do you think it was just the tragic loss of so many men that left him in some sort of despair? Or (I think this is the more interesting option) what if Rex actually took Krell's vision to heart, especially about the Jedi losing and the Republic being "torn apart from the inside"? I don't see why Rex would give Krell any credibility, but I wonder.
  25. Swashbucklingjedi Game Winner

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    Ahsoka is "jedi commander" that is not same rank as "clone commander" naturally....

    I don't know any more than you do -I just think that George doesn't like Plo any more than any other background jedi. It's based on few random comments I dunno where.... but I got that impression that Plo is only Dave's favorite and has no special role...

    How do you know they have some larger role? I don't know better but I see no reason to think they would have a larger role.
    I do like wolfies but I don't like this "Wolfpack kills Ahsoka" or "tries to kill Ahsoka" theory- very farfetched- just as probable as "Barriss turning to dark side and killing her" or "Commander Monnk killing her".... Fisto has been around quite a lot as well he is like Plo....

    No- it's not just that it should be also that but not only that. There should be several stories from that timeframe and they should be telling stories without Anakin, without Ahsoka, without Rex- they've been telling awfully lot of episodes without Ahsoka or Rex starring so that sentence is bantha poodoo....


    Tell that to GL who messed up those things- With Mortis Ahsoka was closely connected with entire Chosen One stuff- I see no reason to mess up Wolfies with that.....I think Ahsokas fate needs to be connected to Anakin not to Plo....

    She probably will be and I hope she will play a larger role but that is no more probable than Wolfies playing important part that is the point...

    Lux could possibly explain bit more..... if he doesn't die- by far Ahsoka's story seems to have nothing but farfetched endings really....

    Yeah he is important IU but is that necessarily meaning that he is important in her destiny remains to be seen- Owen was important to Luke IU but he was very minor character in ANH- same with Beru and Biggs Darklighter etc. Plo is Ahsoka's "father-figure" but his role in her story may be nothing more than a mentor...

    But I don't know -I just theorize[face_peace]
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