The Case for Firing Dave Filoni

I hope this doesn't come off as a troll post --- I am not trying to antagonize anyone and am not going to put forward any ad hominem attacks against Filoni. I'm a life-long Star Wars fan and care deeply for the movies, EU storylines, and the quality of the new canon post-Disney acquisition. Dave Filoni has bothered me for years, and I've seen so many threads on here praising him and the products that he's put out, and have seen very few threads that call him out for his failings. He seems to get an undeservedly large amount of protection and defense on here (and throughout the modern Star Wars fanbase) against criticism, and I think that that is dangerous for the future of Star Wars.

I'd like to see what other think about Filoni's shortcomings and whether anyone can adequately defend them. The crimes I list below against our beloved Star Wars canon stories are, IMO, unforgivable and call for a more capable director to take the helm of the Star Wars animated universe.

I'll begin by praising the Ahsoka and Ventress storylines of The Clone Wars. They were brilliant, along with some of the Clone-centric storylines.

With that said, I still feel that Dave Filoni is the wrong man to be helming teams that are creating new Star Wars canon. I can't believe that Disney kept him onboard for the Rebels series ---- the only reason I can see is for economic reasons vs quality reasons. Disney wanted to churn out a new animated Star Wars product as quickly as possible, and Filoni was the man in the seat with the carryover experience from Lucasfilm and had his idea for Rebels already lined up.

Here's why Dave Filoni should have been fired after Disney's acquisition and never touched Star Wars canon again:

1) The Clone Wars movie (2008) - between Ziro the Hutt, the baby Hutt, and Anakin and Ahsoka referring to each other as SkyGuy and Snips, this was the biggest Star Wars abomination since the Holiday Special. Probably an even greater abomination considering that it is an officially credited canon story as opposed to a parody made-for-tv holiday special.

Filoni stated in an interview that Ziro the Hutt's voice changing to a "Truman Capote" southern English dialect was George Lucas's idea. I'm not surprised, but I still blame Filoni for it. Filoni went on to praise that decision and said that it pushed Ziro's character over the top into an awesome, memorable status and that his character was a favorite among the team.

This shows me that Filoni, just like Rick McCallum during the Prequels, was and is a George Lucas "Yes-Man", lacking any creative filter and ability to take a stand against things that would either be inappropriate or outright terrible for the Star Wars universe. From his POV, he unconditionally will believe that whatever George says on a whim is absolutely brilliant and a guaranteed success. That is dangerous and not what a director of Star Wars should be. The Empire Strikes Back would have been very different if Lucas had been more heavy-handed instead of leaving Gary Kurtz with reasonable autonomy and creative influence. Just look to JJ Abrams as an example of a good Star Wars director. He and Kathleen Kennedy scrapped George's original Episode VII idea of a story revolving around teens and rewrote the full storyline with Irvin Kerschner.

2) From The Clone Wars to Rebels, there is a "consistent lack of consistency" in tone and maturity. This falls squarely on Filoni. His story and direction fluctuates wildly from episode to episode. It goes from incredibly exciting to incredibly dull, from cringe-inducingly babyish to shockingly violent. The excuse for the babyishness is that the shows are developed for kids, at least from the start, and that they will get darker over time. They do get darker, and end up being more violent than any of the original movies ever were (e.g. Ahsoka beheading about 5 Mandalorians in a single swipe ---- awesome, yes, but incredibly inconsistent in tone compared to many of the episodes and more violent than anything put forward in the original movies). Darker doesn't necessarily mean more violent. Darker means deeper, more intense, higher stakes, actual character development and tension, with an emphasis on the bad guys having the upper hand and exerting their influence on the main protagonists. Filoni just doesn't understand this and doesn't understand how to put forward a consistent tone and quality in his shows.

3) Filoni lacks the ability to create subtle references or homages that keep you in the Star Wars universe and that don't blatantly copy past Star Wars movies. If George asks for the show to become more like a western, he will create characters that explicitly don Western hats, throw in dialogue and styles of speaking that are distinctly attributable to a universe outside of Star Wars and create episodes that have the explicit feel of the Spaghetti Western movies, which rips some viewers out of the Star Wars universe.

Another example of this is Kevin Kiner being told to make the Rebels music sound more like the original trilogy. Instead of drawing heavy influence from the OT music but creating a completely new score that just references universal themes throughout the movies like character themes, The Force theme, the Rebels fanfare etc. , he actually rips explicit leitmotifs ("Here They Come", "The Battle of Hoth", "Tales of a Jedi Knight", even "The Basket Game" from Raiders of the Lost Ark(?!?!) etc.) and just plugs them in at random places in the episodes. Tons of fans that are unfamilar with the OT music end up praising him for it and calling it brilliant. However, to many longtime fans that intimately know the source material, it completely rips us out of the episode that we're watching, since we know that that music is meant for a specific scene in a specific movie. Kiner and Filoni seem to have completely misunderstood that leitmotifs and little diddys like the string line to "Tales of a Jedi Knight" are NOT meant to be copied and reused for other scenes/movies/shows. They are specific to just those moments and should be very sparingly referenced, if even used at all. There may have been just a few moments where John Williams reference a previous leitmotif (like "Here they Come" in RoTJ for a brief moment), but they are sparingly and smartly done.

This is the kind of lack of filter and adequate judgement that Filoni and his team have consistently demonstrated over their time in the driver seat of the Star Wars animated universe. Considering that Star Wars animated stories are canon, they deserve a better director --- maybe not Abrams level, but there MUST be better candidates than Filoni.

 

First, I consider this well expressed. Secondly, I feel your passion. While I do agree with some of your gripes I strongly doubt only Dave is responsible for tonal decisions.

 

Filoni won't be fired I can tell you that sure he has his ups and downs but so did George Lucas

Also in before the lock.

 

Why do people insist on acting like they know the future???

 

Because if you know what the mods usually lock then it is predictable

But I believe that Filoni will stay for a long time.

 

I was talking about Dave.

 

The OP is guilty of this as well, he calls Abrams a "Great Star Wars Director" but we haven't seen his movie yet so that can't really be known at all.

 

I don't have the energy to write up a big counter argument against every point right now so I'll simply say your first assertion that "George had the idea to make Ziro sound like Truman Capotle, Dave ultimately liked the idea and likes Ziro, therefore he is just a yes-man" is ridiculous. That's basically taking your subjective opinion of the character and saying anyone who disagree's is just unobjective or a yes-man or whatever.

Obviously he and the rest of the crew had discussions with Lucas over what would be in the show but if Lucas was firm on an idea, well that's what would happen because he was the one paying for everything.

 

Filoni isn't the director of these, he's the showrunner. He does direct some of the episodes, but not all. I'm not necessarily a fan and defender of these, but I'll say this:

1) Nobody should be fired because of something that they did 7 years ago, when everything they've produced since then has improved. Is The Clone Wars a good movie? No. It's not the worst thing since the Holiday Special, but it might be the worst thing since Battle for Endor. This is due to it being originally produced for TV and at the very beginning of a brand new project. Dave Filoni was very much working for George Lucas at the time, and did not refine the raw ideas enough. These situations are no longer true. Lucas is retired, Filoni and his team have experience. The Rebels premiere was pretty good.

2) Tonal consistency is unnecessary and the excess of inconsistency is not entirely Filoni's fault. Tone falls ultimately to the director of the episode, although some of it comes from the screenwriters. Filoni oversees this and can veto, but he needs to give some autonomy to his directors. Even in the movie series, there are light-hearted moments and dark, emotional moments. Especially in Rebels, I have not had a problem with "kiddish" tones since the second episode. To throw that in every once in a while does not bother me. Keep in mind that these shows are trying to reach a new audience, which Filoni's team is certainly accomplishing. The overly dark bits still fit within the TV ratings that they aim for, so no harm no foul, I suppose.

3) Cartoons are typically over the top in homages. Many cartoon episodes are homages to books or movies and go point-by-point through the plot. John Williams often references his own music--Imperial March plays in the prequels and Duel of the Fates is in Attack of the Clones. The bigger question is, do they give in completely to the homages, or do they allow creativity? While quoting word-for-word lines from the movies bothers me, it is also something that we find in the books and comics. Should everyone be fired because of this? Of course not. So what if references targeted at fans have some fan service and in order to target kids, there is a lack of subtlety in other references? I can grin and bear the worst of this, because the stories and characters, for the most part, are creative, original, and well-done.

4) Again, I'm not necessarily a Filoni advocate. I don't think anyone should be on the same project for ten years, as this will stifle creativity and cause the entire franchise to orient itself to suit that person's needs. If a third show is done, I would love to see another showrunner and directorial team take over. Filoni should move on to another project, and maybe return to the Star Wars universe in another way at another time. But let him finish Rebels first, so that we don't lose the vision and can actually get everything wrapped up this time, unlike with TCW.

 

I have far more faith in Filoni than Abrams. Filoni may retcon things (which can be annoying) but he seems to care for star wars. JJ just looks like he's making an OT semi-reboot.

 

SWT: I agree with most of that.

 

From http://moviesblog.mtv.com/2008/08/12/is-ziro-the-hutt-the-first-gay-alien-in-star-wars-history/

""Ziro, Jabba's uncle, originally spoke in Hutt-ese, like Jabba and then he had a different sluggish voice just like Jabba, and then George one day was watching it and said 'I want him to sound like Truman Capote.' He actually said that and we were like 'Wow!' " Filion revealed. "It's a hybrid of it but the inspiration is definitely there on Capote. It's one of those things that takes him from being an interesting character and I think really does put him over the top and does something. He's a favorite among the crew here."

Not only does Filoni go along with the idea and do George's bidding, he actually goes further and gushes over it, and his team becomes enthralled with the decision and the resulting character.

If this doesn't show a lack of judgement and a broken/dangerous quality filter for what is good for Star Wars, then I don't know what does.

Also, to Jedi Knight Fett --- why are you predicting (calling for?) a lock for this thread?

 

Do you really think Abrams will make as terrible of decisions for Star Wars as those that I detailed that Filoni has made in my OP? Really?

Also, you just reminded me that I completely left out Filoni's retcon issues ---- those would be issue #4 in my OP, but they are far too numerous to list.

 

Filoni's multimedia project retconing will be a drop in the bucket compared to JJ completely ignoring post ROTJ.

 

Maybe he will not everyone thinks he is a good starwars director especially because we have not even seen the film.

 

They like the character??? I mean is that a shocking concept or something? People have different taste you know?

 

Ziro's character something like a decadent pimp and morally bankrupt criminal & dandy from New Orleans or someplace in the South. The Hutts were always something similar to the Harkonnen family of Dune anyway.

Filoni I doubt is malicious or a threat to Star Wars, thats rather out there I think. Actually despite some criticism I have at some of his decisions through the years, TCW was a highly enjoyable show and some of the best SW that was made. I think it is great he's at Lucasfilm and they need him , perhaps more than they know. He's 2nd only to Lucas as far as getting and making Star Wars imo. Both of them had hit and misses but all in all it is just not Star Wars without Filoni at Lucasfilm. Would be nice if Lucasfilm would get Gary Kurtz back onboard as well.

 

I liked Ziro, his New Orleans accent and "homosexuality? " did not bother me I thought he was funny and an interesting character.

 

I have no idea wether his decisions will be good or bad, I DO worry at times from things he's said in interviews that he is hedging too close to just doing an OT 2.0, and when he said something along the lines of "Star Wars is a Western" I cringed because that's completely wrong, and made me worried he's gonna take the franchise back to more simple planet design in the name of making it all take place on "the frontier".

 

Thanks for the thoughtful reply, SWT

My focus is on Filoni because, as you said, he is the head honcho, capable of shaping and vetoing ideas and storylines as they are being developed, just like George could. He also staffs his team, and has the ability to reshape the team to produce a better, more consistent product, if desired. I don't see that kind of leadership from him. The wild swings in tone and maturity, the lack of subtlety in the homages to OT Star Wars and other Hollywood movies, characters, speaking styles etc., they all point to a failure of management.

Rebels.......the main protagonist looking almost exactly like Aladdin and using a light slingshot? Both completely veto-able at the Director's seat. He let them go through. Just another example of a terrible creative filter at the executive level.

Filoni's saving grace is Ahsoka (Asajj was already a character from the 2003 series). Her character and story arc are the most valuable things that came out out The Clone Wars series, and could be a saving grace for the future of the Rebels storyline.

 

I get so mad when people use that as critism it's stupid.

 

I'm sorely disappointed in this thread. OP made not one mention of Filoni's undying passion and unhealthy lust for his waifu, Ahsoka Tano.

Also, where's the constant praise? He's been a very polarizing figure on this forum ever since day 1.

 

Yea New Orleans crime bosses have strong Mafia ties, I'm sure that's what they were going for when they designed Ziro's personality.

 

We have an appreciation thread for him.

 

Yeah ...
1. I don't agree with you on the film and your claim that Dave is a yes-man (and Rick etc. ) doesn't make real sense .
( Kershner wrote for the Sequel Trilogy ? That is news for me.)
BTW If Filoni would be fired , then I would lose like all my hope into Lucasfilm and Disney ;I have FAR more hope in him than Abrams .