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San Diego, CA The Case for the Empire Everything you think you know about Star Wars is wrong.

Discussion in 'Pacific Regional Discussion' started by ValueROCKR, May 17, 2002.

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  1. ValueROCKR

    ValueROCKR Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 21, 2002
    my friend sent me this... once youve read it email this dumbass and tell him that the force IS IN EVERYONE.... some people have HIGHER MIDICHLORIAN COUNTS but EVERY ONE can use the force. he mis quoting the facts and that pisses me off... but hey its only a movie right?


    The Case for the Empire
    Everything you think you know about Star Wars is wrong.
    by Jonathan V. Last
    05/16/2002 12:00:00 AM


    Jonathan V. Last, online editor





    STAR WARS RETURNS today with its fifth installment, "Attack of the Clones." There will be talk of the Force and the Dark Side and the epic morality of George Lucas's series. But the truth is that from the beginning, Lucas confused the good guys with the bad. The deep lesson of Star Wars is that the Empire is good.

    It's a difficult leap to make--embracing Darth Vader and the Emperor over the plucky and attractive Luke Skywalker and Princess Leia--but a careful examination of the facts, sorted apart from Lucas's off-the-shelf moral cues, makes a quite convincing case.

    First, an aside: For the sake of this discussion, I've considered only the history gleaned from the actual Star Wars films, not the Expanded Universe. If you know what the Expanded Universe is and want to argue that no discussion of Star Wars can be complete without considering material outside the canon, that's fine. However, it's always been my view that the comic books and novels largely serve to clean up Lucas's narrative and philosophical messes. Therefore, discussions of intrinsic intent must necessarily revolve around the movies alone. You may disagree, but please don't e-mail me about it.

    If you don't know what the Expanded Universe is, well, uh, neither do I.

    I. The Problems with the Galactic Republic

    At the beginning of the Star Wars saga, the known universe is governed by the Galactic Republic. The Republic is controlled by a Senate, which is, in turn, run by an elected chancellor who's in charge of procedure, but has little real power.

    Scores of thousands of planets are represented in the Galactic Senate, and as we first encounter it, it is sclerotic and ineffectual. The Republic has grown over many millennia to the point where there are so many factions and disparate interests, that it is simply too big to be governable. Even the Republic's staunchest supporters recognize this failing: In "The Phantom Menace," Queen Amidala admits, "It is clear to me now that the Republic no longer functions." In "Attack of the Clones," young Anakin Skywalker observes that it simply "doesn't work."

    The Senate moves so slowly that it is powerless to stop aggression between member states. In "The Phantom Menace" a supra-planetary alliance, the Trade Federation (think of it as OPEC to the Galactic Republic's United Nations), invades a planet and all the Senate can agree to do is call for an investigation.

    Like the United Nations, the Republic has no armed forces of its own, but instead relies on a group of warriors, the Jedi knights, to "keep the peace." The Jedi, while autonomous, often work in tandem with the Senate, trying to smooth over quarrels and avoid conflicts. But the Jedi number only in the thousands--they cannot protect everyone.

    What's more, it's not clear that they should be "protecting" anyone. The Jedi are Lucas's great heroes, full of Zen wisdom and righteous power. They encourage people to "use the Force"--the mystical energy which is the source of their power--but the truth, revealed in "The Phantom Menace," is that the Force isn't available to the rabble. The Force comes from midi-chlorians, tiny symbiotic organisms in people's blood, like mitochondria. The Force, it turns out, is an inherited, genetic trait. If you don't have the blood, you don't get the Force. Which makes the Jedi not a democratic militia, but a royalist Swiss guard.

    And an arrogant royalist Swiss guard, at that. With one or two notable exceptions, the Jedi we meet in Star Wars are full of themselves. They ignore the counsel of others (often with terrible consequences), and seem honestly
     
  2. ValueROCKR

    ValueROCKR Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 21, 2002
    heres my reply to him




    They encourage people to "use the Force"--the mystical energy which is the source of their power--but the truth, revealed in "The Phantom Menace," is that the Force isn't available to the rabble. The Force comes from midi-chlorians, tiny symbiotic organisms in people's blood, like mitochondria. The Force, it turns out, is an inherited, genetic trait. If you don't have the blood, you don't get the Force. Which makes the Jedi not a democratic militia, but a royalist Swiss guard.

    Actually every one has the ability to use the force... A few people have higher midi-chlorian counts make them more adept with it but everyone can still exercise some degree of control over the force... Which gets stronger with practice... This particular statement rellies on the fact that you fail to mention Qui-Gon states that midi-chloriansn are inside everything and everyone. Because if you did youd be admitting that your arguement here isnt valid....

    The Republic, of course, is eager to quash these separatists, but they never make a compelling case--or any case, for that matter--as to why, if they are such a freedom-loving regime, these planets should not be allowed to check out of the Republic and take control of their own destinies.

    Not so. Palpatine is leading them to believe that if the separatists leave that the Republic will fall apart. Hes pulling the strings to get power over the senate. The senate has been manipulated.

    But look closer. When Palpatine is still a senator, he says, "The Republic is not what it once was. The Senate is full of greedy, squabbling delegates. There is no interest in the common good." At one point he laments that "the bureaucrats are in charge now."

    Sure thats what someone who wants your trust would say. Hes evil its called lying. Are you so gullible to believe everything your told or take it at face value?

    Make no mistake, as emperor, Palpatine is a dictator--but a relatively benign one, like Pinochet. It's a dictatorship people can do business with. They collect taxes and patrol the skies. They try to stop organized crime (in the form of the smuggling rings run by the Hutts). The Empire has virtually no effect on the daily life of the average, law-abiding citizen.

    Unless you happen to live on the wrong planet. In which case they may decide to just blow you up to make a point. Or the fact that they hoard all the technology. Or the fact that they have no care for forward movement. As a governing body the Empire only seeks power. They stand still as long as its comfortable. Making moves not to help the people but to further control them.

    But the most compelling evidence that the Empire isn't evil comes in "The Empire Strikes Back" when Darth Vader is battling Luke Skywalker. After an exhausting fight, Vader is poised to finish Luke off, but he stays his hand. He tries to convert Luke to the Dark Side with this simple plea: "There is no escape. Don't make me destroy you. . . . Join me, and I will complete your training. With our combined strength, we can end this destructive conflict and bring order to the galaxy." It is here we find the real controlling impulse for the Dark Side and the Empire. The Empire doesn't want slaves or destruction or "evil." It wants order.

    Again your statement is so naive. A person who gives you a choice to die free or live under a dictator? You think thats a deal? The Empire doesnt want slaves or destruction? So then blowing up planets to get your way isnt asserting dominance or destruction.

    None of which is to say that the Empire isn't sometimes brutal. In Episode IV, Imperial stormtroopers kill Luke's aunt and uncle and Grand Moff Tarkin orders the destruction of an entire planet, Alderaan. But viewed in context, these acts are less brutal than they initially appear. Poor Aunt Beru and Uncle Owen reach a grisly end, but only after they aid the rebellion by hiding Luke and harboring two fugitive droids. They aren't given due process, but they are traitors.

    You know what your right. Possesin
     
  3. DarthBrian

    DarthBrian Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 9, 2002
    "Actually every one has the ability to use the force... "

    Not true.
     
  4. ValueROCKR

    ValueROCKR Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Feb 21, 2002
    ^ how so? everyone has the potential right? or am i missing something?
     
  5. DarthBrian

    DarthBrian Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 9, 2002
    Han Solo has no ability in The Force whatsoever.
     
  6. ValueROCKR

    ValueROCKR Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 21, 2002
    by choice though right? he still has the potential... or is there something in the eu?
     
  7. DarthBrian

    DarthBrian Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 9, 2002
    In the role-playing game (the West End Games one) you could be "Force Sensitive". Not everybody could have that trait. There was also "Force Attuned" which meant you were influenced by The Force, but you couldn't use it. Then there was everybody else. And The Force was not a part of their lives.

    With midichlorians, maybe that's changed. Who knows? But I'm pretty sure that only certain people can feel The Force.
     
  8. jawajames

    jawajames Former RSA // stawars.com contributor star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2002
    my thoughts:

    on the empire being evil or not:
    for the most part, we don't see the evil that the empire does, we are simply told that it is evil (i believe in the opening scrawl in ANH it says something to that)

    blowing up a planet full of civilians is morally wrong, so we can count that against the empire (or at least against Tarkin, acting on behalf of the Empire).

    the article mentions that the empire is a meritocracy, where everyone is treated to their talents... this is only true in the movies if you are human, male and white.
    i didnt see any non-humans, females, or non-white persons (and you could argue non-British) in imperial uniforms in the movies. (one could always argue that stormtroopers and other helmet-heads could be otherwise, but they all talk with male voices). while most of the rebel soldiers we see are human males, there is at least the hint of diversity between species and genders, through leia, mon mothma, admiral ackbar, orimaarko, lando and chewbacca, etc.

    letting the separitists go vs. keeping them in the republic.

    i think the jury is still out on whether letting secession happen in countries is considered good or bad in general. the US fought a civil war over the right to secede. the break-up of yugoslavia was a show of separitism... choosing to go separate ways, and fighting to achieve that. recent world history includes many civil wars and secession movements, from Basque, Tamil and Quebecois separatist movements to wars in Chechneya, Taliban-controlled Afghanistan, Zapatistas, etc. secession is seen as bad in general, for destabilizing the state, but can be good if greater freedom from oppression can be enjoyed.

    the author of the original criticism clearly prefers order (security) over freedom. he proclaims they had freedom -- showing the criminal world but did they? no.. the empire could trample on anyone as they felt like... if vader felt that jabba was becoming a problem, he would have eliminated him. more likely that organized crime was tolerated under the empire as a way of keeping order in some places (why rule ruthlessly, when the crimelords will do that for you... and make you look good when you take them out).

    the republic was becoming ineffective, as what happens from time to time...
    the roman historian Polybius came up with the notion that governments shift as the older establishment becomes too bogged down and distanced from the people. it goes in a cycle of dictatorship to oligarchy to representative government back to dictatorship...


    as for the jedi - does everyone have the potential to use the force? we believed that everyone (even Han) could, until the revelation of the midi-chlorians... it is a bunch of elitist crap... only certain people with enough midi-chlorians can use it, and because they have 'it' they automatically 'know better' than the common folk what is best.

    as for Han's force potential.. i believe he had some latent nonpotable affinity for the Force, commonly known as Luck. he couldn't control it, but he wins constantly against the odds. perhaps the Force smiles upon him and keeps him alive.

     
  9. DarthBrian

    DarthBrian Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 9, 2002
    "as for Han's force potential.. i believe he had some latent nonpotable affinity for the Force, commonly known as Luck. he couldn't control it, but he wins constantly against the odds. perhaps the Force smiles upon him and keeps him alive. "

    That would fall under the "Force Attuned" category.
     
  10. jawajames

    jawajames Former RSA // stawars.com contributor star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2002
    Force-attuned, yes.... the CCG gives him ability 3 - force-attuned, even if Han wouldn't believe it.... it's that Luck thing...

    also, if you haven't figured out Mr. Last's politics, he writes for the conservative viewpoint publication The Weekly Standard.

    compare the situation in episode II to the current war on terrorism...

     
  11. foxbatkllr

    foxbatkllr Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 27, 2001
    And we all know the RPG and CCG are canon...
     
  12. GreyJedi

    GreyJedi Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 16, 2002
    All right children, time to go back to school.

    In the original Star Wars movie, Obi-Wan tells Luke: "The Force is an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us, it penetrates us, it binds the galaxy together."

    Now, the ability to tap into the Force is related to one's midiclorian count. Therefore, those with higher concentration of midiclorians can manipulate the Force. As Qui-Gon tells 9-year old Anakin, the midiclorians help us interpret the will of the Force.

    Nuff said.
     
  13. JediG60racer

    JediG60racer Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 9, 2002
    How is Pinochet an example of a benign dictator? Or is rule by terror and mass murder now considered morally acceptable means of rule?
     
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