ST The Cave-A Domain Of Evil It Is. In, The haters Must Go (The Official haters' Sanctuary)

Correct, the discussion can continue in the other thread. But the general warning to this thread posted earlier still stands.

 

It's strange....The Music in TFA wasn't quite "out there" and didn't at all seem to flow well at all with the editing and scenes as opposed to how it was used in the PT and the OT. When it comes to comparisons of course..

The music was more like....well, music. It wasn't used as a rhythmic way of telling a story as George Lucas did. The music wasn't contrasted and mixed together with story, visuals and characters. And not very mixed with editing either. This isn't a complaint more so an observation I have noticed while watching the movie and listening to the soundtrack. Soundtrack is great mind you, not my favorite but still gr8b8 stuff dawg.

 

Besides the usual known songs (like the Yoda/Force theme at the end) I didn't really notice the music much in TFA. It didn't stand out as much as the music of the other films.

 

I've come to love Kylo's theme, which didn't stand out for me on first viewing. The score is very emotionally mature for a big film like this. It doesn't hit you over the head, or have as many signposts (feel sad/ angry/ scared) as one might expect, particularly from a Spielberg aficionado.

I think it's one of the best in the saga, though just below the OT for me.m

ETA: Apologies. On my phone and didn't realize I was in the hater thread! Please ignore.

 

I think part of the issue with the soundtrack is that the film didn't really leave Williams much space to work with. In the originals most of the really iconic sections of the soundtrack come in scenes where either atmosphere or slower drama are being played out allowing the music to slowly build up.

Its no coincidence that the best bit of new music in TFA(for me anyway) comes in the scene where Rey is introduced, one of the few points in the film where atmosphere is slowly built over more than a few seconds.

 

The two scenes that stand out, in the terms of the score, are Rey's introduction on Jakku and the final sequence with Luke. No surprises then that these scenes are without dialogue and are, in my opinion, most reminiscent of Lucas/the previous films (and in a way that's not derivative). It's a pity that those are the only two scenes that stand out cinematically/visually, creatively for me. It's often said that Star Wars is best viewed as a silent film, and it's true in terms of how Lucas and Williams worked in concert. Williams OST for TFA doesn't quite work as well for me, not due to the score per se, but more how the music is used within film and Abrams unwillingness to let the film breathe and have musical/visual moments (sans the scenes I mentioned).

 

Darth PJ

I agree. I think JJ Abram's style of editing from about the end of the First Act in TFA means less scope for Williams' music to help tell the story.

By contrast, for instance, the score and my experience of the score within the movie is one of the things I liked about AOTC. I was really struck by it the last time I watched the movie (about a month or so ago). And, to echo your point, about silent movies I thought AOTC would be perhaps really enjoyable to watch with just the music. For example, IMO, Anakin and Padme's theme "Across the Stars" told me all I needed to know about the relationship between these two without having to hear the actors.

 

I'm curious if you had to rate only the first 30 minutes of TFA what score would you give it? On whatever scale you like best.

 

I don't like TFA. It's a coarse copy and irritating and it's plot is everywhere. Everything in the 6 film saga is soft and smooth.

But anyways, Darth PJ - I 100% agree with you re the two scenes that stand out, in terms of score.

 

This is exactly how I feel. It's a real shane they could put something together a better movie.

 

I spose you could consider the ending a new piece of music as well even if it includes the force theme. I would tend to agree with you that Williams soundtrack doesn't entirely work, not just due to a lack of memorable moments but because when he does try and go down more of a traditional Star Wars path it creates a bit of a mismatch with the film due to Abrams very different directorial/writing style.

Basically I think Williams traditional Star Wars style isn't just matched to a space fantasy its matched to a space fantasy filmed in a new wave/Jon Fordish style with a lot of stately lingering shots building scene and character. Generally I think there's an tendency to overlook this aspect of the OT because the directorial style isn't really in your face.

 

I also prefer a more stately directorial style, which is why I was worried about Abrams from the beginning. I'm glad he gave us some of that style (particularly on Jakku, and in a few other places), but would have liked the camera to sit still a bit more, and offer more compelling compositions.

 

Definitely in the 8/10... 4 out of 5 stars... kind of territory based on the opening 30 mins.

 

I did fear a Trek style obnoxious hyperactive camera/edit film so yeah cutting back on that was a definite positive although overall I got the sense he was fighting against his natural style with quite uneven results which became rather distracting due to the material covered trying so hard to follow the OT.

As you say the film lagged behind in terms of composition but I think also in terms of creative lighting, the originals very often used this to great effect yet I felt TFA was often quite bland here and indeed I think that's feeds directly into a lessened sense of atmosphere.

I think that the above ties into the overall feeling I got that Abrams was making an "80's revivalist" film when actually Star Wars has a lot of the New Wave in it, theres both a grace and a harshness to it where as TFA often felt more akin to something like Back to the Future for me. Indeed I think if Abrams is suited to any classic franchise that may well be it.

 

The trouble with the first act for me is that whilst yes its definitely the best part of the film I think that it only lasts 30 mins is also one of the biggest missed opportunities.

I think if we'd say spent another 15-20 mins of Jakku establishing more of Rey's history and force use the film would have benefited massively from it. Say cut out all of the section of Han's freighter and have him on Jakku with the Falcon instead.

 

I'm right there with you. I'd even go as far as 4.5. It's the part where the style is most like the originals so when he switches it up to a more modern action type blockbuster it's a bit of a disappointment.

I'm curious if the modern audiences would actually go for a movie that's shot closer to the 80s style of blockbusters rather than the currently trendy comic book hero version we got in the end.
Judging by the box office maybe not. I'd be curious to see what the individual breakdown would be if you had people rate individual parts of TFA.

 

I think audiences would not reject a new SW that is elegantly filmed and epic looking like the originals, since the originals are still being watched regularly by today's audiences on DVD.

 

Doesn't matter. Those are Old Movies. People have different expectations when they go to see New Movies.

It doesn't make much sense, but that's how it is.

 

You're probably right. Audiences minds have been warped by bad movies and vdeo games. Still, I sometimes like to kid myself thinking there is a kernel of hope for society.

 

Given the undeserved critical praise and box office success of lazy, creatively bankrupt films like TFA, im afraid there is no hope.

 

Idk we got a fair few good if not great movies recently. It's more the sci-fi/fantasy genre that's turned into a giant ***********I blame Marvel and stuff like transformers. Then you get stuff like Nolan's interstellar which is the closest we got to a hard sci-fi movie in a long while and people freak out while praising the giant WTF that's gravity.
And for the record It's not great just good but I appreciate his attempt to make one that was good.

xaxiomatic. Please star out the profanity, thanks.

 

I really enjoyed Interstellar.Nolan is one of the few last best hopes in sci-fi/fantasy cinema.

 

To be fair Rian Johnsons Looper is another although I spose so was Duncan Jones's Moon and Source Code yet he looks like he's stuck with an awful by the numbers blockbuster with Warcraft.

Generally it seems that very few creative directors really get to lead high level blockbusters these days, its cinema by committee and safe formula when you get to that level.

 

Well, I'm #13 in line for The Force Awakens when it is acquired by my local library. I'm not remembering much of TFA (which is, obviously, a sign of a forgettable movie). I didn't forget much of Inside Out (for example) after seeing it once, so it's not just me. It's TFA.

Anyway, I'll have the Blu-ray for a week, and I'll be able to study the movie then. That's when the hating will truly start.