Saga The characters and camera work in the Saga constantly moving from left towards right...

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by obi-rob-kenobi4, Sep 25, 2012.

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  1. obi-rob-kenobi4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2007
    star 4
    I got permission to start a new thread about this as it seems to be a very big, important part of the Saga so here it is:

    Upon re-watching the Saga recently I noticed something shocking...

    Throughout all 6 films a very consistent theme constantly going on in every single shot involves the characters progressing (or trying to progress) towards the right of the screen (forward) as well as ALL of the camera work and framing of basically every important shot/scene revolving around this theme of going from the left (the PT) and progressing towards the right (the end of the OT).

    Every single time the good guys loose they are taken back to the left by the evil characters or "bad guys" in the saga. Lucas seems to make the entire soul purpose of the bad characters (as specially in ANH and ESB) to escort the good characters "backwards" in their journey of trying to reach the end of the saga (which would be the ending of ROTJ).

    It seems to be crafted as a sort of dante's inferno journey through this fantasy land (the saga) where the good characters must make it out to the other side (which would be the ending of ROTJ).

    The very first shot in the Saga is the republic consular ship flying into frame FROM the left TOWARDS the right. They make there way down to naboo and we see shots (among many,many other shots) like the droid army pushing (right) towards theed "entering" the republic. Think of this as "the front gates of the republic" and if you just pay attention with this in mind you will see this keep going and going.

    Its a lot like dantes inferno in that we are taking a journey passing through these thresholds into this darkness and back out into the light again.

    We go from the land of green plains (naboo) and travel across lakes and through deaserts until we then must travel through the land of fire and into the "cold" (hoth, unsafe space) plains of the empire. This is why TESB is so dark, because if mustafar was the gates of hell than Hoth is "the eye" of hell (the empire).

    Watch ROTS from chapter 37 (padmes departure) to the end to quickly understand what Im talking about and your entire view of the saga will change!

    Keep in mind that its certainly not limited to the things I just happen to be able to list off the top of my head, it is constant but here are just a few key points for right now until I can re-watch a few more things:

    All in ROTS from chapter 37 onward:

    1.Padmes ship (like many other ships and little clues all over the saga) actually makes an arrow pointing right. This even reveals itself in dialogue (also in many other instances all over the saga) when the caption warns her he is worrying about her going any further to the right.
    2.You will notice the framing of the camera on Anakin and Obi-wan circling each other
    3.You will notice when anakin is looking at the camera the camera work is telling you that he is looking "back" (to the left) with obi-wan standing on the right side and the volcanos over obi-wans shoulder in the distance represent what is "ahead" of them that they will have to cross.
    4.you will notice anakin battling obi-wan towards the left, threw the hallway bringing him towards his new hell
    5.They fall with the platform DOWN into "hell"
    6.The lava is flowing to FROM LEFT TO RIGHT
    7.Obi-wan sees the next "fall" this is symbolizing the sagas decent into a period of hell (the empire era)
    8.anakin created this hell and it is his hell so he must go to the right and down with the rest of the saga "off the cliff"

    What happens next is a very clever visual metaphor for Darth Vader

    8.Anakin fights the natural current with the help of technology (the droid he jumps on) and corruption of the force.

    9.when anakin is burned he is reaching to the left and up at obi-wan who is walking away (towards the empire era) which is the course the story must now take.

    10.We do see obi-wan going back left in the shot with him and 3PO flying away from mustafar but both the wipe and anakins hand "pulls" us forward.

    From this point on EVERYTHING keeps up this theme of left to right. Every direction the camera points or angles towards and EVERY direction people walk in! It is unbelievably consistent!

    The best part of this is that in the shot when vader rises on the platform THAT is the exact point of "the middle" of the Saga. Watch the camera work right before, during and then immediately after he rises. and so from that point on everyone then gos from looking/angling/leaning towards the right of the screen (forward) to now looking back (towards the left) while still moving forward weather it is them moving forward or the camera moving forward (which would be right) "past" them . This is because they have now "passed through the middle" and can go into the OT, empire era. What they are looking back on is "the middle point" they just passed through (which is the shot of vader rising on the platform).

    Another thing I noticed is that ANY time the camera ever breaks this pattern by pointing to, or going towards the left (back) it is at a circle or sphere! For example when vader and tarken and palpatine are looking back on the left the death star is in frame. Earlier in the film when general grevious returns to the sep base it is from right back to left but only because his destination is a circle (the droid control ship core). Which is (again) inside of ANOTHER CIRCLE, the big sinkhole.

    This still keeps going very strong in the OT all over the place as well. ANH begins with leia's rebel blockade runner "running" attempting to run left (which would be back) towards the republic trilogy (going from the right of the screen to the left). Symbolizing (if you didnt get it by now) how the rebels and leia are fighting for a time that has passed. The only way to go is "forward" towards ROTJ. You will notice that all the villains ever try to do all throughout ANH and TESB is capture the good guys and escort them "back" to the left. When we first see 3PO and R2 they are turning a corner from the left walking forward towards the right. The desert that 3PO crosses he is going right and the jawas (as well as a few other characters like lobot and boba fett) act as ferryman escorting the characters further to the right, forward into the saga. the jawa sandcrawler is an arrow pointing to the right when 3PO first sees it (it even has a little sparkle of light as a sort of hint) as well as every scene afterward. Any time the characters wander to the left they are threatened by sand people, jawas, stormtroopers, monsters exc.

    There is also a big theme of "guardians" guarding the "next level" that the hero's are trying to progress to. Sometimes they are just there to be symbolic standing there up against a wall (always on the right) holding a staff. Like the rebels in the scene in ANH where leia is greeted by the rebel commander on yavin 4. One of the best examples of this is Darth vader in the carbon freezing chamber. The first time we see the chamber (when han gets frozen) Vader walks in from the walkway and stairs on the left and (in the duel) stands guard at the other side at the top of the stairs that lead to a walkway going only towards the right. Luke cant beat him and is forced back down the stairs into a circle (!) if luke falls into the circle then by the rules of star wars his fate will change (maybe for the better maybe for the worse it always depends) but because he is able to jump out of it he is able to battle vader back. But then he gos through another circle (!) and so into vaders trap, the "spider web" (that famous window) which he is sucked out through (of course) to the left and down which leads (yet again) to an even greater circle. When luke dares to turn the corner to look for vader he is battled back to the right down the catwalk. Lucas has said in the dvd/blu-ray commentary that the whole point of cloud city is the motif of "hell" hidden inside the heart of what the characters think is "heaven". If you look at cloud city it is another arrow pointing down. Earlier Han and the gang was able to get away from the imperial fleet (going right getting chased by boba fett) but when he gets to cloud city it shows him going towards the left (danger!) and what does the voice from the cloud car tell him? "You will not deviate from your present course" ;)=D= And (as we know) they do not deviate. They have managed to get themselves as far towards the right as this dark movie will let them go until the next film.

    A few more from TESB:

    1.)Vaders star destroyer is a big arrow pointing to the right all through out the film.
    2.)The rebels must fight through the empire in order to get "forward" (right) during the battle of hoth
    3.) The ion cannon (the circle on the side of the rebels) allows the rebel transport to move towards the right (forward).
    4.)The stormtroopers (guardians escorting) are trying to take leia and the gang to vaders ship (to the left) but lobot and the cloud city guards step in and "outrank" these guardians and so they allow leia forward (right) again.
    5.)When leia, lando and the gang are trying to escape bespin they are going left until she sees vaders ship and leia points and says "star destroyer!" and so are forced to turn right where vaders arrow shaped ship is pointing them.
    6.)The rebel fleet at the end is pointing right (forward) but they are revolving around the bright galaxy (circle) luke and leia are looking at (light at the end of the tunnel?) so we still dont know if they are headed for better times or worse times.

    Ok so I think (hope) you get the idea by now. This is a very consistent, constant thing going on throughout the saga and until you notice it it is almost on a subconscious level. I can promise that if you watch any one of the films you will not ever be able to un-see this.

    I would love to hear what you guys think about this and discuss this further. Maybe list some things or pics of your own that you caught.
  2. obi-rob-kenobi4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2007
    star 4
    Just thought I'd add some more that I noticed:

    In TPM the jedi jump out of the circle shaped room and the camera pans with them from left towards right fighting their way to the right with non other than the main star wars theme music playing. When they get to the room with gunray the door is shut and locked so Qui-Gon must make a circle (!) in the door to get through to the right. They stop him from making the circle so he stabs his saber through the door and when they shout "they are still coming through!" the camera shows you that the saber is burning another circle for him to walk through! When the destroyer droids show up the two circles that they make (their shields) cancel out his circle so they must retreat "back" behind the destroyers and down to a different level in order to keep going right (forward). This same thing is done in ANH when they jump down the shoot.

    Lucas portrays the journey through the saga like a maze in many ways. Sometimes the only way to go forward (towards the right) is to go around by going up or down to a different level.
  3. StampidHD280pro Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2005
    star 4
    Creepy, the first shot of a character moving left I could think of was Luke jumping down from the carbon chamber platform in Bespin. Of course, in the next shot he emerges from the circular door!:oops:I see you caught that too.

    For the record, I think you are INSANE. But only because I've gone down this road myself before. The scene transition wipes more often than not go from left to right, but occasionally they go from right to left. Like, I think when the Naboo cruiser lands on Tattooine for the first time. Oddly, another circle. But it's a planet so. duh, I guess.

    OK. So how about ... Dooku's escape vessel? That goes right to left. Hrmmm... Well, what vessel ISN'T planet-bound in Star Wars? What about his little speederbike thing on Geonosis? That whole "catch Dooku" chase is more or less right to left, isn't it?
    ... This is not easy. BUT! It does make me consider a few things. The Podrace is counter clockwise. That's a bit right to left, yeah? But... it's a circle. A CIRCUIT, EVEN! Circuits... clocks... American Graffiti, anyone?

    Notably, all the celebration shots at the end of ROTJ go from right to left. Very, "lets go backwards through the worlds". So you're definitely right about the left-to-right direction being the standard FORWARD direction, but I'm gonna hold off on calling this a consistent pattern. If what you have told me is true, you will have gained my trust. But for now, remain here.

    I HAVE however just recently made THIS discovery.
    THX 1138 begins with the credits crawling downward (very unusual).
    It ends with the main character crawling (not necessarily climbing as it was shot horizontally) upward, and emerging to a sunset... The same sunset that begins American Graffiti, of course.

    Similiarly, Radioland Murders begins at the very top of a radio tower and goes downward to street level. It ends in the reverse, from the ground, up to the stars... the same stars that begin the Star Wars Saga, of course.

    So. Now my Saga viewing order is:
    Radioland Murders I II III THX 1138
    American Graffiti IV V VI More American Graffiti

    Hopefully you can see the logic in it. It took a long time to come up with. I'll have to try it, eventually.
    Last edited by StampidHD280pro, Sep 26, 2012
  4. EHT New Films Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2007
    star 6
    I am typing this from left to right... eerie! :p
  5. obi-rob-kenobi4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2007
    star 4
    With regards to the scene transition wipes I noticed that they almost exclusively exist to support the "left to right" theme because even when the wipe itself is going towards the left it doesn't necessarily mean that the frame is getting pushed to the left it can mean the frame is being "passed" by the story as it progresses.

    Example of what I mean: In ROTS the wipe that cuts obi-wan and 3PO in the ship to anakins mechanical hand reaching towards the right "pulling the story forward".

    With regards to Count Dooku sometimes going to the left (and this is where it gets juicy) we have to remember two things: his character and the whole theme of AOTC. His sith name is Darth Tyranus (tyrannical) and his whole purpose as a character is to mislead (!) and deceive all the other characters. He is the one leading people in the WRONG direction. This also takes place on geonosis which has a circle around it (made up of smaller circles) the separatists in both films only have their bases in "the land of circles" which would be geonosis and utapau. The whole theme of AOTC from the very beginning is that "we no longer know which direction we are going" what happens in the first shot of AOTC that makes it unique from all the other films? The camera pans UP (unexpected; not following with the tradition of panning down) and padmes ship gos from left towards right but then the whole entire camera rotates and reveals that we were upside down the whole time! There is A LOT of symbolism in this opening in the sheer uniqueness of it to the visual metaphor Lucas uses (remember that he describes himself as a visual filmmaker first before anything else) to John Williams mystery theme music playing throughout much of the entire opening of the film as well as much during the middle throughout. The world of politics has both literally and metaphorically been turned upside down and the right direction to take has never been more uncertain.

    Consider the camerawork in the scene in TPM where palpatine convince padme to call for the vote of no confidence. Watch how as soon as the vote is called the camera circles around palpatine's face as he gives a proud nod of approval. Then (and this is key) we see the sun setting on the old republic. Right afterward when we see padmes ship it is a very dramatic shot with the camera pointing DOWN on another bottomless pit and the ship is an arrow pointing slightly left (the bad direction) to about 7 o'clock. This is symbolic of the direction palpatine has taken the galaxy.

    If your still unsure I suggest watching ANH and you will not be able to believe how EVERY SINGLE time a character trys to go left he is forced right by the sandpeople and jawas or walls or something. The wipes are the most consistently right (forward) throughout this film as well. The scene with the sandtroopers and the jawas are a perfect example of this too. It starts from left to right and when the camera gos left (back) the trooper finds the circle (!) "look sir droids!" and the wipe is even a circle stemming from THAT circle emphasizing this whole theme. In basically every single shot in the rebel base there are people in the background running towards the right. Same with the death star in the hangar when the falcon lands. Watch the extras. Watch which direction they are always running/walking. It is exclusively towards the right. I stood there with my hand on my hip watching, waiting to see someone/anyone in the background walking left and I did not see it ever.

    I urge people to just quickly throw in ANH or ROTS (or use youtube) and just skim through some scenes and you will see. It is unbelievable.
  6. obi-rob-kenobi4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2007
    star 4
    LMAO. I know right! 8-}

    I swear it makes you feel like Jim carry in that movie "the number 23" -lol.

    I find myself actually trying to find any instance where this rule gets broken and I just cant find it anywhere...
  7. Yunners Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2006
    star 2
    The Imperial pursuit of the Millennium falcon in the asteroid field is right to left as is the Obi-Wan / slave 1 chase, the reactor shaft chase in ROTJ is right to left. Most of the Battle Of Yavin is right to left. The field battle on Geonosis has the Republic army marching to the left. Obi-Wan and Anakin peruse Dooku in the Dropship from right to left. Han's strike team march away from the Tyderium right to left. Luke and Leia swing right to left across the death star chasm and again on the Sail Barge. And those are just the ones I can name off the top of my head...
    StampidHD280pro likes this.
  8. StampidHD280pro Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2005
    star 4
    Well, that's EXACTLY what it's like. If you look for patterns, you WILL find them. Our brains are wired that way.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/23_enigma The number 23 is not just a movie. A friend and I have counted the exact number of times the letter Y (the 23rd letter in the alphabet) appears in paragraphs we have written. Sometimes we would find 23 Y's, sometimes 32, sometimes 46 (23+23), etc. It's always there. You just have be be crazy. Which apparently you are. No offense. Discordianism is probably right up your alley.
    You will even find patterns that aren't even there sometimes. This is called hallucination, and it's happened to me before. It's not uncommon. Mirages. Beer goggles. Jerusalem syndrome. Etc.

    But, because I am ever skeptical of my skeptical side, what say you about R2's right to left advance in ANH? Does he get a pass because his eye is a circle? :p

    BTW, I really REALLY enjoyed your AOTC/Dooku head trip. VERY well done.
  9. obi-rob-kenobi4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2007
    star 4
    The R2 ANH example is actually an excellent example of my point. Where is R2 heading? Towards the mountains that makes a wall. Its symbolism. Symbolic of "the wall" that separates the two trilogy's. The rebels in ANH at first try to go back (which would be left) but that door has closed and they must push forward (right). Look at the dialogue in that scene. 3PO argues with R2. "im not going that way, its much too rocky". Look what happens to R2 when he trys to go that way, the jawas take him right. The jawa sandcrawler is an arrow pointing right in every scene its in. When 3PO is lost in the dune sea he sees the crawler and the light flashes off the right tip of it. Most of these things simply cant be coincidence, some maybe, sure, but not all. Its simply too consistent.

    Lucas does love stuff like this. He says it all the time. He considers himself a visual filmmaker. He says about how he "hates the talking heads" era of film and considers "real film" or as he puts it "pure film" to be abstract movements of colors and shapes on the screen that make a message. He says this. He has said that he is proud of this aspect in star wars. Look how he started out in the beatnik cafe's in the 60's. This is an example of who he is as an artist.

    Actually, I think this is the key to explaining a lot about why he does so many things people seem to not like or be able to understand. Because so many fans are thinking the exact opposite of what he thinks is important. It is a fundamental disagreement/misunderstanding between him and his critics. As he himself puts it film (at least his kind of film) is not about "talking heads" its about colors and shapes and sounds being used to make statements and get messages across.

    Take the droid factory scene in AOTC for example. For the people who dont like that scene It is so jarring because its so unconventional from how things should traditionally be in a film editing wise but not to lucas. Now put on the commentary during this scene and listen to what George says about it. He talks about how he loves the fact that there is so much chaos going on in the scene that it almost becomes abstract and he loves this. Thats what he says in the commentary. Now look what direction the characters are going to get to that point. Anakin and padme fly the ship, land the ship and walk to the right the whole time. Then when they "fall" the abstract chaos in both the visuals and the music starts up. This all follows the formula.

    Lucas quotes-

    "I've always been a follower of silent movies. I see film as a visual medium with a musical accompaniment, and dialogue is a raft that goes on with it. I create films that way - very visually - and the dialogue's not what's important. I'm one of those people whosays, yes, cinema died when they invented sound. The talking-head era of movies is interesting and good, but I'd just like to go to the purer form."

    "...The thing I did do with Star Wars, which is something I don't think a lot of people fully understand, is that Star Wars is basically a silent movie. It's designed as a silent movie. It's sort of an Eisensteinian film. It runs completely silent with the music score. The dialogue and effects are put there for partly musical effect. And that's one of the reasons why three- and four-year-olds can watch it, or people can watch it in other countries, and it makes sense without ever knowing what anybody's saying, because it's purely a visual film. It moves along on a visual platform, rather than along a luterary one."
    - Star Wars Insider 43, Part II, interview on TPM, 08/99
    Last edited by obi-rob-kenobi4, Sep 26, 2012
  10. obi-rob-kenobi4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2007
    star 4
    Guys please actually read through the posts in this thread before posting.

    Just for the record (and as I have already stated in previous posts)

    1.)The pursuit of the Millennium falcon in the asteroid field as well as the jango/obi-wan fight involves circles (the asteroids) and also the ESB example still follows the previously stated formula of the villains chasing the heros trying to take them/escort them/battle them back (which is the left).

    2.)The reactor shaft chase in ROTJ is going left but it still follows the formula because the rebel fleet (which has been traveling right the whole film) is what the falcon returns to (on the right) after going into the belly of the empire (death star core). The whole point is that the greater story is and has been constantly progressing to the right towards the end finish line (which would be the force ghost shot).

    3.) In the Battle Of Yavin the heros have progressed right the whole film until they get to yavin when they must defeat the guardian (the death star) before the are allowed to go any further right (into the next film and deeper into "the land of the empire"). When the death star blows up it makes a circle (!) the ring from the explosion that the rebels inflicted that then (by the rules of SW) now cancels out the circle from the villains. And so they can progress back to the right.

    4.) The field battle on Geonosis has both army's marching towards each other (obviously, its a battlefield) but this still fits perfectly within the formula because the whole symbolism behind the war that beaks out at the end of AOTC has always been about showing chaos and confusion. As I already stated in this thread the established theme in AOTC (signified by the opening shot among other things) is that the hero's are unsure about which direction is the right one. Darth Tyranus (tyrannical) is the one the hero's are chasing after but he is leading them in the wrong direction (also something I clearly stated in my previous posts).

    Attack Of The Clones! Attack of the endless hoards of identical units/cells which derive from the same source (clones) on those who would seek change (separatists) made from the republic that is taking the galaxy in the "wrong direction". See? The title mirrors "The Empire Strikes Back" but has more symbolic meaning behind it.

    5.) Han's strike team march away from the Tyderium right to left but only after it has flew to the right and landed down on the planet. They find the villains (where they would be, to the left) and the speeder bike chase gos from left to right continuing the journey.

    6.)Luke and Leia swing right to left across the death star chasm but only to get away from the troopers and make their way back to the falcon on the right of the screen. Again, like I have stated in my TPM example with qui-gon and obi-wan "finding a way around" the destroyer droids in order to keep going right. When the villains battle the heros left (back) they must find a way around them by either fighting through them or going around corners that ultimately lead them back on their course right.

    7.) When luke and leia swing left on the Sail Barge it is not before being taken (by the villains) left to a circle (fate decider/game changer) which would be the sarlac pit. They rebels in the falcon fly away to the right and are joined by luke as soon as he returns from keeping his promise to yoda. the fleet is traveling right all through the film.


    The whole point is that the greater story is and has been consistently progressing to the right towards the end finish line (which would be the force ghost shot) in ROTJ which is "the land of green" the color symbolizing natural as the naboo plains did back on the other side at "the gates" of the republic (beginning of the story). Of course their are bound to be some things going to the left once in a while but the point of this thread is to understand why and what it means and how it is solved by the formula. The established main formula of going right.

    So far there is still not one instance of the camera/characters ever breaking this formula.

    Think of the saga as a straight line with "the front gates" being the entrance to theed. The journey then travels through the beautiful land of the republic into the land of uncertainty (geonosis exc.) until it reaches the front gates of hell (mustafar and ROTS) with the shot depicting the exact middle point of the story being the shot of Vader rising on the platform. Then we enter into the Empire era (hell) and keep on traveling right through desserts and jungles until we reach deep into the eye of hell (the frozen white plains of hoth, the blackness of space with the destroyers flying around, and most of all "the lie of heaven" at the heart of hell as Lucas himself puts it) we see the "light at the end of the tunnel" at the end of TESB and finally enter ROTJ with everyone still going right in every scene/shot and the rebel fleet flying right until we get to... (say it with me now) the death star (circle!). When the death star blows up (again making another important circle both literally and metaphorically) we can now keep going right forward into the land of green with the "finish line shot" or "end of the line" shot being the force ghosts. Before the saga ends we get a montage of all the locations of our journey celebrating now liberated --and to show this all the camera pans and wipes all go towards the left "looking back" on what we have journeyed through.

    Ok? See the point?

    Look at the opening shot of ROTS. Its going to the right and DOWN. Its dante and virgil descending into the place where the saga will now go, hell. Its all crafted to resemble a journey. And it is very consistent.

    Discussing this is the point of this thread.
    Last edited by obi-rob-kenobi4, Sep 26, 2012
  11. TheAvengerButton Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 2011
    star 1
    Yes, it's not just about the framing and stage direction (for lack of a more film oriented term) it's about the meaning behind that camera work.
    obi-rob-kenobi4 likes this.
  12. StampidHD280pro Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2005
    star 4
  13. Yunners Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2006
    star 2
    There are only four possible general directions people or objects can move past the camera and what you've managed to do, I think, is come up with a circular argument that fits the pattern no matter what direction they're going in. Now, I might have given you the benefit of the doubt if all six movies were shot back to back, but to think George set out to very very subtly implement this pattern in '77 and pick it up again in '99, is just plain ridiculous.
    HanSolo29 and Heero_Yuy like this.
  14. EHT New Films Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2007
    star 6
    Just to clarify a little... this is an interesting theory but my post above was actually intended to be a little sarcastic. As @StampidHD280pro points out, if people look for patterns, they will find them.
  15. StampidHD280pro Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2005
    star 4
    How did you get here?
    I mean, I was lost.
    You're not lost now?
    Know the way out?
    That's the way out.
    That's the way we came.
    Yeah, but maybe you were traveling in circles. That's the way out.
    Yunners likes this.
  16. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    I think it's perfectly valid to examine the camera movements and what, if any, thought George gives to them.

    He did ask AOTC's opening shot to pan up and do something different. So the man does consider little things that might go unnoticed consciously but register to our subconscious.
    obi-rob-kenobi4 likes this.
  17. obi-rob-kenobi4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2007
    star 4
    Guys im not crazy. This is not some random crazy theory of mine and im also not trying to say that George Lucas is some kind of brilliant genius. Im simply pointing out very clear patterns in the camera work. Its a discussion about a director and how he seems to like to frame scenes and transitions.

    I have provided very interesting ample evidence including official quotes from the director himself regarding the topic and yet all I see posters doing is making wisecracks and being sarcastic and suggesting that im "just seeing things". Yet no one has acknowledged any of the evidence or thoughts presented so far and no one has brought anything new to the table so far.[face_beatup]

    This is the Saga forum. This is for exploring and analyzing issues pertaining to the saga as a whole. I remember back in what I call "the good old days" around 2002-2006 this useto be one of the best, most fun places to talk about things like symbolism and deeper meanings behind the things George Lucas does with his Saga. Little themes he weaves into the fabric of the Saga like, for one example, the whole mirroring thing he does. This is the place to explore things that that, not deny them or shrug them off.

    I even remember seeing other posters make topics of this exact "left-right, symbolic circle" theme on here. Im almost 100% certain it was on this site before I just cant remember which username it was. My point is that plenty of others have noticed this too.

    After reading the Lucas quotes I posted (and just by knowing all that we already know about what kind of guy GL is) do you really think that (as a director and as the person with soul creative control) he doesn't use the wipes and sense of direction in a particular way with a particular purpose???

    I for one think he does. And I think this little "left-right, symbolic circle" theme is apart of it. I would love to know what you guys think and i would love to discuss and explore it with you.[face_peace]
  18. StampidHD280pro Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2005
    star 4
    He chooses the wipes based on whichever direction the characters are moving. For example, when Luke and Ben pick up 3P0, the wipe goes up. Things like that. A diagonal wipe goes right to left because the next scene is a chicken walker going right to left. "All these wookiees are dead." Why is it OK for chicken walkers to go right to left? Because they aren't our heroes?

    There are two things going on here. For one, you've found plenty of evidence to support your theory, but as soon as you're presented evidence to the contrary, you make excuses for it and turn it into something else that supports your theory. R2 is heading for "a wall" between the trilogies? What wall?
    The other thing is, how does the direction in which people walk help anybody understand the stories any better? It certainly isn't a very interesting story-telling technique.

    I've considered my own pet theories and they're even more outlandish sometimes. Now don't think I haven't considered this theory. And don't think I don't appreciate your posts. However, it just plain doesn't stand up. Vader pursues Luke left to right in TESB, but Obi-Wan right to left in ROTS. Why?
    Also realize that you've already made up your mind about what Lucas meant in those quotes, and that those quotes could very well have nothing to do with what you're suggesting.
    eht13 likes this.
  19. obi-rob-kenobi4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2007
    star 4
    Im honestly not "making up excuses" for it and I promise I don't "turn it into" something that supports the theory. I just see it constantly following the formula clear as day. R2 is heading toward a wall. Look at the framing. Its the camera pointing towards him going towards a wall of mountains. Its symbolic of R2 heading for "a dead end" because thats basically what hes doing. The Jawas (guardians) step in, intervene and escort him back on the correct path to the right. To the arrow pointing right (the sandcrawler). I have seen 10 year old kids show a basic understanding of the point of the scene. "Oh look! it was fate! The force brought 3PO and R2 back together again, ha" And how does Lucas get that point across? Not with "talking heads" as he calls it. Not with dialogue. With moving colors and shapes and John Williams music. Thats it. Thats Star Wars. Thats what GL loves. He says so constantly.

    To answer your question: That IS how Lucas makes people understand the story better. It may not be interesting to you or many others for that matter but thats whats interesting to him.

    George Lucas- "I make movies for myself"

    George Lucas- "...I've always been a follower of silent movies. I see film as a visual medium with a musical accompaniment, and dialogue is a raft that goes on with it. I create films that way - very visually - and the dialogue's not what's important. I'm one of those people who says, yes, cinema died when they invented sound. The talking-head era of movies is interesting and good, but I'd just like to go to the purer form."

    Seems to be a pretty firm, cut and dry statement. What about that is there to "take the wrong way"?
    Last edited by obi-rob-kenobi4, Sep 27, 2012
  20. Darth_Zandalor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2009
    star 4
    I thought this thread died after you attacked me for disagreeing. Hmm.

    Anyways, I'll just say the same thing. Not everything is moving in the same direction, and you can spin doctor any rebuttals all you want.
    TreborSabreon and Heero_Yuy like this.
  21. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    Post - not poster, guys
  22. Heero_Yuy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    Yeah, I don't see anything definitive here. Especially concerning proof that Lucas planned anything.
    Yunners likes this.
  23. obi-rob-kenobi4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2007
    star 4
    Exactly.

    martin scorsese is another director famous for the meaning behind his choices for the camera work in his films. So we can have a conversation about how he lets tommy in goodfellas "stalk/command" what ever shot hes in but we aren't allowed to have a conversation about how lucas does this with vader in parts of the saga like (for example) the fight with luke in TESB.

    There is a hell of a lot behind the choices directors decide to frame their shots and camera work. You will learn this as a basic principal in any college film class.

    Lucas has admitted to fundamentally moving Star Wars along a visual platform rather than a literary one to tell the story.
  24. obi-rob-kenobi4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2007
    star 4
    Another good one is in the battle of hoth. Luke uses "Attack pattern delta" witch makes the speeders fly in the shape of a "D". It doesn't work because a D is only a half circle not a full circle.

    And we all know what worked to take the AT-ATs down. When the speeders can successfully make a circle around the AT-ATs it cancels them out and turns the tide for the rebels so they can advance from left towards right which we see them doing in the first shot after the atat blows up (the rebel running right with the speeders flying past him in the same direction.

    Think about it.
  25. Yunners Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2006
    star 2
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