PT The Chosen One Prophecy and did the Jedi ruin it?

Okay so I've tried a search and checked back a good few pages under "Chosen One" and cant see anything specific on this, so I thought I'd raise a thread about it.

I think fundamental to the above question is what was meant by "the Chosen One will bring balance to the Force".

Was the balance in destroying the Sith who were extending their influence at the time of Anakin's appearance, albeit unbeknownst to the Jedi Council? Was balance in destroying the Jedi and minimising their now extensive influence in the galaxy? Or was balance to be found in finding the relationship between the light and dark side and bringing them together into a balanced "doctrine"? (Ie. There is emotion, there is passion, but in control of those there is knowledge and victory."

If the First, then that part was obviously delayed by Palpatines influence on Anakin.

If the Second, then that was pretty much accomplished.

If the Third, then the restictive tenets of the Jedi may very well have hindered that process completely by stifling Anakins natural desire to express himself and learn to control them rather than let them control him as in his desire/love for Padme, his fears over the death of his mother, his pride or wounded pride over not be appointed a Master on the Jedi Council etc etc etc.

Thoughts?

 

This a great question. I always thought Luke brought balance at the end of ROTJ. It was basically him left at that point. Starting fresh, from a certain point of view, can bring balance.

 

I think Luke brought balance as well but I hope they will convey it by some form of 3. Because both Jedi and Sith are too extreme in PT.

 

I think it'd be the third, "Was balance to be found in finding the relationship between the light and dark side and bringing them together into a balanced "doctrine"? (Ie. There is emotion, there is passion, but in control of those there is knowledge and victory."

I believe that would be the balance of the force, but on the contrary, each "side" of the force didn't fully understand the opposition. Therefore, leading both sides into war. Had the Jedi understood the Dark Side more, they could've helped Anakin balance between the both, which would help him be able to control his hatred, but also control his passion. Which, in the long run, would eventually bring both sides of the force to fully understand each other.

Though an ending like that just made me think about Disney. And they all lived happily, ever, after...

 

Why not? The War should end at some point. It seems pretty forced as it is.

 

i agree with cushy the war will most likely looked forced to me as well.

 

Hi, Steven, and welcome to the JCF!

You may find parts of the following "epic" thread from the "Saga" forums interesting in relation to the question you raise:

http://boards.theforce.net/threads/...to-escape-it-why-mace-lost-the-duel.50011344/

Specifically, the following post "3. Bringing Balance to the Force" offers some thoughts on interpreting the exact nature of the "balance" using both quotes from the films and from GL:

#3

I'm actually not a big one for getting in-depth into these sorts of issues myself, but I happened to recall the above thread and thought you might find it interesting.

Happy reading!

 

Thats what I think. Ultimately both Sith and Jedi philosophy are two opposite extremes and never the twain shall meet, but a new philosophy bringing together the "best of both" would bring balance.

Ultimately we did get a "Happily ever after" ending in ROTJ (at least until Thrawn came along ). However, as is the same in all things there is always someone who wants to take a philosophy to extremes and that inevitaby leads to self-righteousness, schism, sectarianism and conflict. So its never really "Happily ever after".

Edit: Thanks Pensivia, I'll take a look at the thread.

 

What I meant was since neither side truly understood the other, is what led them into war originally. So, to have such a predicament resolved, each side would've been able to truly understand each other through Anakin (being the Chosen One). With Luke bringing balance to the force, in my opinion it seemed that he had destroyed the Sith and all that was left was the Light Side of the force. So to me, there wasn't a true balance in that ending.

 

that is a good point

 

Yes.

The Jedi only have influence/jurisdiction within the Republic. Besides, their relation with the Force and respective usage doesn't harm it or cause imbalance.

 

Given GL's thoughts on matters, it appears that this point of view is correct. But then...

...given the "Ying&Yang" principle that GL is equally oft to use as an example, you could argue that it was the Jedi that had put the force out of balance with their numbers and excessive influence on the Republic and therefore the galaxy (or majority of it). They were afterall a kind of Republic Police Force and what they said was wrong, was taken as wrong.

Taking the "Ying&Yang" as the standard, true balance could only be gained from finding the sweet spot between both points of view. Ie A viewpoint where the expression of emotions and passion were encouraged but where control of such was taught, not letting such emotions control the personand run riot.

I would argue that Luke found that balance, but that also Anakin finally attained that when he killed the Emperor and fulfilled the Prophecy.

 

How do you jump to the conclusion that the Jedi caused imbalance (which is not true) with Ying and Yang? Their actions are not harmful, so how does their numbers and 'influence' has to do with the Force? Besides, the Republic is not the galaxy.

What did they say wrong? And since when is that true?

It's balance of the Force, not balance of the Jedi and Sith (or respective points of view) which don't represent everyone able to use the Force.

Where's the 'good' in the Sith's POV?

 

The fact the Sith don't lie regarding emotion is good and Jedi's influence not being 'harmful' is subjective not fact.

 

In what way is that good? And where do they speak about emotion? The Jedi don't lie about emotion either...

The fact that they have any influence (whatever that means) at all is subjective.

 

You're simply splitting hairs. Good day.

 

I think cushy is trying to say that jedi seem to think emotion is bad.

 

Acting on emotion is bad for a Jedi because it clouds their judgement (which is important for their role as peacekeepers and guardians of justice). It's not only stated but explicitly shown in the movies.

 

No the Republic is not the Galaxy. But the Jedi exert an excessive influence on how the Force is percieved and prescribe which Force Attuned individuals can "use it" and how. Thats an imbalance imho.

That all Sith are evil, that how they use the Force is an abomination and anyone taken in by their apostate views needs to be dealt with.

Predominantly it does represent eveyone able to use the Force. Others are Force Attuned and any use of the the Force on their part is instinctive and most of than not, subconsciously.

This:

Freedom of expression. That there is emotion and passion, that those things are a natural part of a sentient beings makeup. and that the denial of those things (as preached by the Jedi) is wrong. However the Sith take the expression of emotion to far the other way, concentrating on the negative emotions, rather than embacing them and balancing them with control.

 

i do agree that is what jedi do, but to me it does seem difficult to do that completely and remain productive, but that's just my opinion

 

Jedi:

There is no emotion, there is peace.
There is no ignorance, there is knowledge.
There is no passion, there is serenity.
There is no chaos, there is harmony.
There is no death, there is the Force.

Sith:
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

Both opposite viewpoints and both equally flawed.

 

Hey this is a forum, all we have is opinion and a desire to share, discuss and.... ocassionally flame.

 

very true sir I just wanted it to be known for some reason

 

My impression has always been that Anakin did bring balance to the Force as predicted once he finally destroyed the Sith (both Palpatine and himself). I believe bringing balance, as GL has indicated, meant removing the cancerous darkness from the Force so that the light could thrive. There's not a lot of background given on the prophecy in the films. In ROTS it starts to become clear that it means destroying the Sith, which looking back on TPM, is somewhat harder to accept given that the Jedi don't believe the Sith to be alive. Perhaps once Darth Maul is believed to be a Sith, Anakin's acceptance into their order makes more sense to them, and it could ultimately be why they perceive him to be the Chosen One. I do wish the prophecy itself would have been read or explained in TPM so that the audience would know definitively what all those references were to, but it would seem we are meant to string the bits and pieces together.

 

Where is that shown at all? And the Jedi can only influence how they are perceived, not the Force. That's like saying someone can have an excessive influence on how oxygen is perceived.

That's not up to debate. The fact that their selfish objectives involve galactic domination and control over everyone is not in question.

And it's not?

No, their order is represented solely by beings able to use the Force, but Force users are not solely represented by their order.

?!

Where do the Jedi say the opposite?

Acting under emotion and passion instead of reason is wrong for a Jedi, given their position. Like I said, that belief is proven right in the movies. The Jedi can't let attachment control their actions because it can be used against them.