PT The "Chosen One" prophecy

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by darklordoftech, Mar 4, 2013.

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  1. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    Why would they mention a prophecy that had gone unfulfilled? As far as they were concerned Vader was not the Chosen One and had ****ed up the whole galaxy! In fact I'm sure both Yoda and Ben considered Luke to be the Chosen One sand do what his father never could. But why would they tell him that? I mean, look at what the pressure of being "Chosen One" did to Anakin.
    KilroyMcFadden likes this.
  2. Bale Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2005
    star 4
    Really? Admittedly I have not seen the blue-ray edits so perhaps Vader has since been relegated to minor status along with Republic Trooper #4. The last time I watched the movies Vader was a major character in all of the OT.

    Regarding the prophecy, as others have mentioned, not everyone believed in it. Even emong those that did, not everyone thought Anakin was the Chosen One. I know the prophecy was discussed a little more in the EU, but it would have been interesting to have it discussed more in the movies, especially as it ties into the themes of fate and destiny, which are played out in the movies.
  3. Darth Dru Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2013
    star 1
    I think it's still yet to be shown whether Anakin was actually the Chosen One. The ST will give us a final answer to that question imo.
  4. KilroyMcFadden Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 3
    He was the bad guy, he was a supporting character in the movies about the story of how Luke Skywalker saved the galaxy from the Empire. The fact that there were some spin off stories that provide insight into the story of the OT's main villain doesn't change those movies and suddenly makes that villain anything more than a supporting character.
    Last edited by KilroyMcFadden, Mar 15, 2013
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  5. Darth Dru Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2013
    star 1
    Vader may have been a supporting character but he was the main antagonist on screen in Eps 4 & 5, and then seemed to share the role with the Emperor in RotJ. Although it could be argued that the Emperor took over the role of primary antagonist in 6. It depends on how you're looking at it - each individual movie or the saga as a whole.
  6. Garrett Atkins Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 11, 2013
    star 4
    The main antagonist in Episode 4 was Grand Moff Tarkin.
  7. Darth Dru Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2013
    star 1

    Good point. I thought this as well to some extent, but i see Vader as at least an equal antagonist to the overall story in Ep 4.
  8. Garrett Atkins Jedi Grand Master

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    Feb 11, 2013
    star 4
    I'd say he became the main antagonist at the end of TESB when he duels Luke.
  9. only one kenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2012
    star 3
    I'm not sure I understand this. I just don't see a simple dichotomy between 'ordained by some higher power' on one hand and 'sheer coincidence' on the other. Aren't stories generally about the choices that the people involved make? Haven't you just completely discarded human(sentient) agency?
  10. only one kenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2012
    star 3
    My biggest problem with the prophecy is that it is such a philosophical alteration of the Jedi. There are a few 'additions' that Lucas placed in the PT that alter the way the Jedi are portrayed. From the OT one gets the impression that the Jedi are based around a philosophical quest of understanding of the Force. They seem to lack dogmatic structures. Learning to 'use' the Force is a matter of faith, patience, clear thinking.

    Come the PT we have this 'prophecy', which nobody seems to be sure what it actually says (although Qui-Gon seems very assured of his interpretation of it) which they have all, seemingly brought in to. It's such a startling change in how the Jedi are shown to operate. And in the PT, faith/belief are not mentioned in terms of how one learns to use the Force - replaced it is - by one's midiclorian count.

    I just think there was no necessity for either midiclorians or the prophecy. As someone here pointed out, the prophecy in some way takes away from Anakin's sacrifice in ROTJ. Personally I think Lucas decided he wanted to make a more 'mythological' basis with the PT but, in many ways this flounders. It is confused. Qui-Gon the 'wise' did the right thing? But Lucas says he chose Anakin's age and removal from his mother specifically as reasons for his fall. So then one leads to Anakin's fall was part of the Will of the Force. So, 'twas the Will of the Force that the galaxy be plunged into oppression, that Alderaan and all its inhabitants should die; that the Wookies should be all but wiped out??
  11. Ambervikings91 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 1, 2012
    star 2
    I dont actually know if the prophecy is actually true or not. I was just talking about this earlier, this is the perspective of the jedi. Just like people have diffrerent perspectives on religion. It is entirely possible the prophecy isn't at all true and theres a totally different explanation for things. The jedi (just like people) maybe just do their best to make sense of stuff they dont understand.
  12. Darth Vader's Chest Plate Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2013
    star 1
    I thought that the midichlorian thing was just about people's force sensitivity and nothing more. It does state that youngsters are screened and those with the highest are chosen to be trained in Jedi ways, if you missed in screening you don't get taught - which was almost the case with Anakin. I don't have an issue with this element of the back story as it's quite straight forward.

    Annekin was created - with no father - I assumed this is what Palpatine was alluding to when he tells Anakin about the ability to save life (and create life).

    As for the actual prophecy, it's mentioned that balance will be brought. But balance is about both sides not just one overpowering. When Palpatine is destroyed and Anakin dies, is that the point of balance? Not just Palpatine's destruction but his own too?

    The sequal trilogy doesn't need to ignore this prophecy, as the prophecy is about achieving balance not sustaining it?
  13. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Only in the sense of the destruction of his Sith identity as Vader. The balance is about the sides of the Force, which are not people.
  14. Jcuk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2013
    star 4
    This just my opinion but I too thought the whole prophecy, chosen one nonsense was needless. Why couldnt he just have been an ordinary kid with a mother AND father (who had both died at the hands of the sand people) before we actually meet him for the 1st time. He's just a slave kid due to the death of both his parents, and that anger is something that dwells within him. And being strong in the force is never something that needs explaining. Perhaps his mother or father were force sensitive, but this being tatooine remember, they'd never been detected.
  15. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 4
    The prophecy is pretty vague, and as both Yoda and Mace Windu have stated, it could have been and probably was misread. But the thing that has me thinking that it was more than just the Sith having to be destroyed, it's that the Chosen One had to fall, too. Bear in mind that Anakin was born unnaturally, either through the will of the Force (which maybe isn't the case, now), or through means orchestrated by Darth Plagueis, when he performed experiments on one of his slaves. The point is, Anakin is nothing but an anomaly that was or wasn't meant to be, at least that's how some Jedi perceived it. And because of his unnatural existence in the Galaxy, he was probably the sole reason why the Force became unbalanced for all Force users in the first place, including the Sith. And the more powerful he became, the more effect it had on the Force. Hence Yoda and Mace's comments on their Force abilities becoming more and more diminished in AOTC. Being an unnatural perversion of the Force, it had to be all Anakin's doing, and in the end he was the one that had to be destroyed.

    Well, anyway, that's my opinion on it.
    Last edited by DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR, Mar 24, 2013
  16. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    There is no basis to say that it "probably was" misread. As it turned out it was not misread in any significant sense: Anakin did in the end destroy the Sith and bring balance to the Force.

    It maybe isn't the case, now that Darth Plagueis more or less confirmed it?

    The Force became unbalanced because the Sith unbalanced it.
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Mar 25, 2013
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  17. Skelter Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 1
    The prophecy Feels like it was a rushed, last moment thing..The saga would have been better off without it.
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  18. TheRevanchist Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 13, 2012
    star 2
    Considering only the movies, well it seems that the prophecy was right. The chosen one (Anakin Skywalker) destroyed the two Dark Lords (Darth Sidious and Darth Vader) and brought balance to the force. Prophecy fulfilled.

    Adding canon to it, and the prophecy doesn't make that much sense.
  19. TheRevanchist Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 13, 2012
    star 2
    Well yes, technically you are right, but still it doesn't make that much sense if the chosen one achieved balance, which lasted only for a while. There were a lot of others Jedi who did in the past and I don't recall them being called The Chosen One. If the prophecy has to be something big, the Chosen One should have done something more than just achieving balance for only a bit (especially considering that he was one of the biggest reasons for the break of balance).

    Or could it be that Jedi misread the prophecy and in fact that their philosophy of balance of the Force is wrong?!
  20. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    I think that TCW: Mortis hinted that "achieving balance" wouldn't have had to do with destroying the Sith, but with taking The Father's place- which Anakin refused to do.
  21. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    We don't know that. For one thing, there have not been many occasions where the Sith order has been completely wiped out. Also, we do not know that the Force was out of balance in the past eras. It is possible that the latter-day Sith developed a unique ability to unbalance the Force as explained in the EU. We know that the Sith were still around somewhere during the period before the Force went out of balance, so we know that the Force is not automatically out of balance whenever there are Sith.

    Because the Father wanted Anakin to inherit his function of controlling the other Force Wielders. The Son, at least, posed a hypothetical threat to the galaxy. By the end of the Mortis arc the "children" are dead so there is no longer any need for Anakin to control them, and the Father then indicates that Anakin must go on to bring balance to the Force outside Mortis. In other words, by destroying the Sith as previously understood. The significance of Palpatine in this context is even reinforced by Anakin's vision in the final episode.

    It may be that sitting in the Father's place allows one to affect or help maintain the balance. However, the Father's influence did not prevent the Force from being thrown out of balance in the first place. It has been suggested that this was because the Father's power was waning, which was why he sought a replacement in Anakin. But I remain unconvinced that remaining in Mortis would have been successful in stopping Palpatine. Perhaps Palpatine's control over the Force could have been threatened, but he still most likely would have ended up running a Dark Empire in the temporal galaxy.
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Mar 25, 2013
  22. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 4
    Then that would prove my theory is near correct, that Anakin had to become one with the Force (die, in other words) in order to restore the balance.

    Let me elaborate even more on the subject of Mortis. Because he was originally the Force Anchorite of neutrality (a god of good and evil, so to speak) who was somehow brought out from Mortis through means that Plagueis had discovered, his absence on Mortis was the cause of why the Force was unbalanced. Think of the Avatar trilogy and you'll understand what I mean. In case no one knows what I'm talking about, i'll give an example: the gods of their world were banished from the heavens, and as a result of that the magic of their world didn't function properly.

    Well, that's my theory. ;)
  23. TheRevanchist Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 13, 2012
    star 2



    We don't know that. For one thing, there have not been many occasions where the Sith order has been completely wiped out. Also, we do not know that the Force was out of balance in the past eras. It is possible that the latter-day Sith developed a unique ability to unbalance the Force as explained in the EU. We know that the Sith were still around somewhere during the period before the Force went out of balance, so we know that the Force is not automatically out of balance whenever there are Sith.

    I don't think that there was ever an era when there wasn't Sith (taking the account only the time after the Sith were created). So, for the prophecy of the chosen one to be true, IMO Anakin should have done more than just bringing the balance to the force for a moment, especially considering that the being who continued the Sith was a disciple of Anakin (Darth Lumiya). For that, I think that the prophecy is correct only if we take into account the movies, and in the end of the day I doubt that GL was thinking about the past ROTJ events when he created it. In that sense, Anakin killed Sidious (and Vader too, from a POV), destroying the Sith Order and brought back balance to the Force.

    Another interpretation (as artificial as it could be) is that Anakin destroyed the Sith Order (fulfilling his destiny). Although they had the same name, both the Lumiya's Sith and Krayt Rule of One, were not the same order as Darth Bane's Rule of Two.
    Last edited by TheRevanchist, Mar 25, 2013
  24. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    One does not have to die to take the Father's place. The Father didn't die to become the Father, he just came to Mortis. Anakin wasn't required to die in the arc. When the Father died, balance was not restored.
  25. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 4
    I pictured this is something that Lucas borrowed from Tolkien, something to do with Sauron and what he was.

    They say the Anchorites are these supreme beings who've somehow found a way into this ethereal world of the Force, but I imagine Mortis being this place where the spirits of all truly faithful Jedi would reside in after their deaths. Hence Qui-Gon Jinn being there. But maybe this is where the Anchorites came from originally, before they walked the worlds of the galaxy, and in their deaths in the temporal world it was how they were able to return to it. Maybe I'm wrong thinking that Anakin was originally one of them, and instead was actually some long ago dead Jedi from the past. Maybe, just maybe, this lone spirit was somehow pulled from Mortis by the hands of Darth Plagueis and was reincarnated in Shmi Skwalker. It makes more sense to think his existence in the temporal world was the cause of the Force being unbalanced than the Sith that had always existed. The cause being that a lost spirit was out of the Force's realm of the dead and in the galaxy where it shouldn't be.
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