ST The Force, the Chosen One, Balance, and the ST

I don't think we need another one. Anakin's high potency midi-dna is presumably still running through Luke and Leias loins and offspring (not that they procreated together; although as a child, my plastic versions of them often did).

vinsanity. I think it was probably unnecessary. Anakin's arc was already a nice tragedy, why also add this mythological element? Sure, Star Wars uses a lot of myth, but compounding the two unnecessarily can sap the power of both.

Someone told me recently that the Chosen One aspect was necessary so that the Jedi would train Anakin. Then again, wouldn't they also consider training a child that was simply abnormally powerful in the force? If they don't train him, he could become dangerous.

Darth Chiznuk:

I agree with everything you say here. But one thing I have a problem with is the free will defense it suggests. Anakin's fate was to be the Chosen, but his free choices led to evil. OK. But the problem with this is that it calls into question the moral and intellectual nature of the Force. If the Force created Anakin, it must have some knowledge about what Anakin was capable of doing. It made him powerful for a reason. It must have known that this kind of power in a human was dangerous, yet it still made Anakin. Answer: either the Force lacks consciousness or agency, or it's amoral. It's like Melville's vision of nature: it seeks balances but has no teleological or moral purpose.

This would be fine with me if the Force hadn't already been posited as a spiritual force with a certain purposeful, life affirming moral quality.

 

Interesting.
First, the prophecy is fulfilled. Anakin destroyed the Sith. Yoda spoke that it could have been misread, but he was just expressing his suspicions over Anakin's actions those days. I do not believe we'll ever hear about it.
Second, as far as I'm concerned, Plagueis doesn't matter. Whether he existed or not, it's irrelevant, but we could see some kind of midichlorian manipulation in the ST. That would be interesting.
Third, again, it would be interesting to se how Luke tries to achieve immortality... By keeping his identity in the Force. Speaking of Luke, I really hope that the ST will tell some kind of his story, how he tries to keep Jedi heritage alive by teaching new order values like marriage etc. Although we saw the PT last, I think they'll continue the OT story without all that new PT stuff. They're great, but this is new trilogy, we should get something new and exiting.

 

Some theorize that Plagueis created him, as Palpatine said he created life and looked right in Anakin's face we he said 'life'. However, the Plagueis novel hints at something else.

 

Great topic Immortiss. I’ve been thinking about the Chosen One specifically since you brought it up a few days ago.

Aside from the fact that Vader destroyed Sidious which may have brought balance to the force, I can’t conceive how saving Luke and killing the Emperor makes up for all the of innocent Jedi and especially the children he killed. Perhaps Anakin should not be compared to Jesus as Darth Chiznuk suggests, but even without the comparisons, I don’t believe that Anakin's actions are enough for him to be redeemed and to have a place next to Ben and Yoda as a force ghost. I definitely am of the opinion that Anakin has more work to do and hope that the Prophecy is still incomplete -- to be continued in the ST.

The only way that makes sense to me for Anakin to have the same glory as Qui-gon, Obi-wan and Yoda (as a force ghost) is because it is the “will of the force” and that the Prophecy was meant for both the physical and ethereal realms of existence ...meaning Anakin still has work to do.

So what can Anakin do in the Netherworld to redeem himself?

Anakin, having been created either by the Force itself, or “unnaturally” by Plagueis is perhaps the only Jedi Ghost with the knowledge of the dark side and the special ability (of being the chosen one) who can enter into the Sith Ghosts realm to destroy them. Maybe he even enters into their realm, knowing very well that after he destroys them, he himself will be destroyed.

How can Anakin make up for all the killing? The Jedi appear as ghosts, indicating that they have reached some type of exaltation, are they the only ones who can achieve this glory?

Perhaps the unbalancing and the un-natural actions of the Sith have caused souls to be lost in between planes of existence? Along with the final destruction of the Sith, Anakin breaking this barrier and freeing the souls could be enough for me to believe that he has earned his redemption and is “The Chosen One”.

 

Agreed with you 100%. It would have made the story much simpler. Making him a super saiyan character with the baby jesus stuff and putting the NEO, harry potter prophecy he's the One stuff in it, it seemed they wanted to make Anakin a way over the top character more than it need to be, we know he's powerful, but he's not that powerful, at least not as much as the emperor. I always pictured Anakin to be a Magneto type character and Obi-Wan a professor Xavier type in it, it would have worked much better on the PT imo.

 

All that is too much of a downer to expect in a Star Wars movie, an even if that wasn't the case, there would be the problem of the Saga never ending.

A sequel can't go against the existing movies' statements or implications without explanation.

It's made pretty clear in TPM that Jedi training makes somebody more dangerous, not less dangerous. In fact, it's repeatedly stated that Anakin shouldn't be trained because he'll become dangerous if he is trained.

By the way, here's some quotes that I'm sure are relevant to this thread:
-"As evil begins to take over, it pushes the Force out of balance."
-"Which brings us to films 4, 5 and 6, where Anakin's offspring redeem him and allow him to fulfill the prophecy where he brings balance to the Force by doing away with the Sith and getting rid of evil in the universe."
-"Anakin will be taken over by dark forces which in turn destroy the balance of the Galaxy,"
-"In The Phantom Menace one of the Jedi Council already knows the balance of The Force is starting to slip, and will slip further. It is obvious to this person that The Sith are going to destroy this balance. On the other hand a prediction which is referred to states someone will replace the balance in the future. At the right time a balance may again be created, but presently it is being eroded by dark forces. All of this shall be explained in Episode 2, so I can't say any more!"

 

I want no mention of a prophecy, or for the prophecy to be blown wide open and explained. No inbetween.

 

The whole premise of the Chosen One and Balance never made sense.

Was the Chosen One supposed to bring balance or peace?

Why was the balance needed? The Sith were supposedly extinct for 1000 years. Wasn't the Force in balance during that time?

So, when the Sith returned, did the prophecy state that there would be a chosen one who would destroy the sith?

If that's the case, then does it render the Jedi council completely incompetent and useless if it cannot push back and destroy or fight against the very sect they seem to have been made to fight against?

Therefore, all that training against the dark side means nothing if they only rely on a young child?

Seems tangled and confusing and rather contradictory.

 

Fixed. I completely agree, although I think some of your questions may be answered, it gives me a headache.

 

When Qui-Gon said that Anakin is the Chosen One, he also said that the Sith have returned. And there could have been non-Sith darksiders during the 1000 years.

 

Balance, per several times in the movies.

We don't know, the movies don't say. One might speculate that the balance of the Force determines the fate of the universe as a whole.

They were thought to be, but obviously they weren't.

We don't know.

Per the movies, yes.

What? Why would the Jedi fight against a sect they think extinct? Why would anyone assume that the Jedi were made to fight against the Sith?

What training against the dark side?

 

If the prophecy is involved at all, I hope it's just for clarifying things... I'd rather the ST focus on the new heroes' accomplishments, not just have them pave the way for Ghost Ani to get involved again. I'm not opposed to Ghost Ani appearing, necessarily (and Hayden's Anakin may be a lot less grating in the hands of a new writer & a new director), but I am opposed to Ghost Ani playing any sort of significant role beyond what Ghost Obi-Wan did in the OT.

I understand that the ST 'needs' to be part of the Saga thus far, but that doesn't mean every single story element needs to relate to what came before, be it the Sith as the villains, Palpatine as the villain, Anakin being the 'hero', etc. The very presence of Luke, and presumably some offspring of Luke or Leia, is enough to tie 'em together since they're telling the next chapters in the story, the story of the Skywalkers. That's all that's really 'needed'. But even if it was just about some Jedi who were trained by Luke and/or Leia, it's still the story of the Skywalker legacy from a certain point of view, since it's the result of Anakin's rise & fall and Luke's rebuilding of the Jedi.

 

considering how large the chances of new Sith sucking are

 

If you are referring to the part in Potter where Dumbledore says "There are ways" in regards to Voldemort's return, no. In that case the prophecy in Potter had not yet come to fruition. Dumbledore knew at that point that Voldemort would be back. Nobody in Star Wars is expecting a "return" if in fact that's what we are going to get.

If anything, I was thinking of Jeff Goldbloom saying "Life finds a way" in Jurassic Park.

 

I'd like to see more of the force as shown to us and described to us by Yoda in Empire, and less of the PT force bacteria, space jesus, prophesy malarky we got in the PT. Leave those things in the past

 

The problem with that is that there's a need for continuity. For example, Sith can't show up without the prophecy getting a mention.

 

Yeah. C'baoth aside, Thrawn proved pretty well that you didn't necessarily even need a Force-strong villain to present a challenge to the heroes (tho C'baoth was rather crucial to many of his plans). TCW (after the EU) showed the Nightsisters, and showed they have a different way of using the Force.

I know it better belongs in the "Who's the Baddie" threads and whatnot, but we could easily (and maybe even preferably) see non-Sith villains; and while the general public might not know the difference between Sith & non-Sith Force baddies at the outset any more than denizens of the GFFA might be able to distinguish between Jedi & Sith, all it takes is a couple lines of dialogue & some good thought behind the ideology/organization/individual/whatever of the non-Sith Force baddie to convey the differences to the audience. A Jedi saying "You...you use the dark side. You're Sith?!", the enemy saying "No. I'm/we're something else, beyond your petty, ancient feud", a demonstration of their power, etc. Something that might, perhaps, unbalance the Force--but not in the traditional ways. Something new for a new generation to fight, not just the Black Robe Brigade (population: 2) all over again.

 

The general public thinks "Sith" is a race, and even if they didn't, NIghtsisters are clearly not Sith, and even if that wasn't the case, Vader and Palpatine are never identified as "Sith" in the OT and nobody asked what they are.

 

Sure they can. Considering the breakdowns in logic we have already in this saga, I think just going ahead and stripping some of this crap down and making a good trilogy is more important. It's not like the PT matches up all that well with the OT anyway. And since Luke was never shown on screen to have any knowledge of any of that PT crap, there would be no reason for him to include those aspects in his own teachings. It's a perfect way to strip that crap down.

Now, people who liked those aspects will not agree with me,and that is their right.

 

I think it would be easier to simply have Luke state that the PT Jedi were wrong about anything that gets contradicted.

 

We all have our preferences. I would prefer to leave some of that PT baggage in the past.

 

I would like the Balance of the Force to be an actual balance between the light and the dark. If it stays the way it currently is, it's more like the Dominance of the Force.