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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST The Force, the Chosen One, Balance, and the ST

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Immortiss, Aug 26, 2013.

  1. K Ran

    K Ran Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jun 6, 2014
    Could be a conflict between having a Jedi order and not having one at all. Maybe a newly found order (not lead by Luke) doesn't mesh well with the Alliance.


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  2. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001

    Balance can still be achieved in ROTJ and carry over thirty years later, while having the characters face a new foe.

    You create new villains and go from there. And how do you know it was never meant to be permanent when Lucas said that balance is restored by Anakin's actions?
     
    Visivious Drakarn likes this.
  3. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Sweeping aside the Jedi wasn't part of the Force's plan. It was only Palpatine's plan.
     
    mratm23 likes this.
  4. JediMatteus

    JediMatteus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2008


    on a logical level. i mean he brought balance to the force. That would not have occured with out him. It IS important, but its not final. All it takes is a jedi, such as a Dooku, getting disillusioned by the order, falling to the dark side and finding a sith holocron in Korribon or Zioist and boom, another sith.
     
  5. Immortiss

    Immortiss Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2013
    I wonder if Luke will get that Obi-Wan moment of destiny and instead of the passivity in Ben's actions we see in him a reversal of action, taking down the younger Sith? Luke, thus surviving to continue in action throughout the ST.

    Edit: If so, then the Force is in Balance. If not, the Force is still out of Balance and in need of it. If the Force is in Balance we should see a lighter (OT style) trilogy. If not, the ST the will resemble the the PT, with the Jedi victorious in the end.


    ***MODS*** With respect, I am reposting the same post in this thread, due to the similar conversation, yet somewhat different participants. I know this is considered SPAMMING. That's not my intent, so please excuse me.
     
  6. DV75

    DV75 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 30, 2001
    Screw the whole dumb prophecy crap.

    Enough of that PT garbage.
     
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  7. Immortiss

    Immortiss Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2013
    You should make T-Shirts.

    The first line on the front and the second in the back.
     
    DV75 likes this.
  8. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Yesterday I fulfilled "the prophecy of the Chosen One who will bring cleanliness to the carpet by vacuuming it." Pretty proud of that. But I know it will get dirty again anyway.
     
  9. Immortiss

    Immortiss Force Ghost star 5

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    Mar 10, 2013
    The Chosen One would have at the very least steam cleaned the carpet. By Episode IX the Chosen One should be replacing the carpet. New carpet.
     
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  10. K Ran

    K Ran Jedi Youngling

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    Jun 6, 2014
    I totally agree, but the problem is the time frame.

    It wasn't discussed for years that you would one day vacuum to only have it become dirty a week later.
     
  11. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 13, 2007
    True, but those discussing it were likely just so focused on it getting clean that they didn't think farther out to whether that would be a permanent outcome.
     
  12. K Ran

    K Ran Jedi Youngling

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    Jun 6, 2014
    You could very well be right, but in my mind it cheapens everything from the PT/OT.

    Force Balance - not that big of deal
    Jedi - not very smart
    Vader - not that important

    If they want to fix the prophecy without cheapening it they can explain what would have happened had Vader not brought balance. (Palpatine working on immortality and powers to sense and destroy all force users across the galaxy) this would have guaranteed eternal unbalance.

    Maybe the potential for eternal unbalance is what they were prophesising Vader would prevent rather than the current unbalance.

    So it wasn't mere bringing balance to the force "for awhile." It was bringing balance back to the force right before it got to the point where balance was no longer obtainable.
     
    Jair Crawford likes this.
  13. K Ran

    K Ran Jedi Youngling

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    Jun 6, 2014
    So I guess in the vacuum context... If you hadn't vaccuumed at that point it would have been too dirty to vaccum again, thus making that point all the more critical ;)
     
  14. K Ran

    K Ran Jedi Youngling

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    Jun 6, 2014
    And now I'm rambling but perhaps Luke begins to study what Palpatine was attempting to do and be able to tap into the force and sense all users across the galaxy to find them. Very professor x-ish and NSA ish.

    This is a gray area that Luke only wants use for good.

    Maybe an over zealous student (Driver/solo) thinks it should be used to track down potential dark side users so they can be destroyed. Thus leading to conflict and abandonment. Okay I'm done for awhile.
     
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  15. devistic

    devistic Jedi Youngling

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    Jun 12, 2014
    I've always thought that Anakin was the chosen one... not in the sense that that he himself would bring balance to the force, but that it he was a necessary evil in order to bring balance. Whether or not that means his bloodline brings balance or if his its actions that have larger implications somewhere else. Although the near future turned very bleak after Anakin's transformation to the dark side, the long term implications could have been much darker had that not happened.
     
    K Ran likes this.
  16. Jair Crawford

    Jair Crawford Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2012
    K Ran I like your theories. It's very simple, yet it works so well. Heck, it works a lot better than Force Ghost Anakin and Plagueis Specter duking it out in the Netherworld in a huge apocalyptic battle at the end of Episode IX, which was originally the only way I could see the prophesy still stand. lol
     
    K Ran likes this.
  17. K Ran

    K Ran Jedi Youngling

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    Jun 6, 2014
    I wouldn't mind seeing that!
     
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  18. Immortiss

    Immortiss Force Ghost star 5

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    Mar 10, 2013
    I suppose. I think having balance in the narrative deprives the writers of an indispensable thrust. The heroes need a point by which to act and if the Force isn't disturbed or out of balance then they are unable to adequately end the saga (represented by the three-leaf clover at the end of the Yoda arc) climactically. Nor do I think balance comes and goes. When you look at other art from the same genre you recognize patterns of a certain form. For example, Frodo didn't throw the ring into Mt. Doom, or Barad-Dur, or whatever it's called, at the end of the Two Towers. I do believe Harry Potter defeated Voldemort at the end of the story, not at the two-thirds mark. Luke defeated Vader, who in turn redeemed himself by destroying Palpatine at (what was) the end of a three, then six part story. The next Star Wars iteration should have a final, broader, and unambiguous ending or grand finale.

    I don't think balance has been restored in the galaxy. The threat is greater than ever. The Sith have somehow transformed themselves into a greater threat as a result of Anakin's redemption. The new/ancient foe must be present at the apogee of the saga story. Only after bringing us the the heights of drama can the saga truly resove itself into balance: The re-establishment of the New Republic and the New Jedi Order.

    Here's a question: Do you think Episode VII will be very dark and the ST will proceed by getting lighter and lighter until the 'new foe' is dust or unthreatening? Or, do you think it will start light and get darker and darker until the climax at the end of IX? I tend to think its going to be a light-hearted bleak.:p[/quote]
     
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  19. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001

    The Sith don't cause the balance on their own. It was a set of circumstances that resulted in the imbalance. That's why the Force was balanced when the Jedi last fought the Sith a thousand years ago, but is falling out of balance by the time TPM begins. Otherwise, there would a ton of Chosen Ones running around.

    The heroes have a reason to act without it being about balance to the Force. Long before Anakin was born, the Jedi operated because it was the right thing to do. There were conflicts, both large and small, that they dealt with. The Sith were only one part of the problem. In the old EU, there were plenty of stories that didn't involve Sith, rogue Force users and Imperials as the main threat. Yet we saw the Jedi and the Republic, both old and new, dealing with those threats. The stakes were just as severe as it was when there was a Sith Lord or an Imperial warlord pulling the strings.
     
  20. Immortiss

    Immortiss Force Ghost star 5

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    Mar 10, 2013
    Oh, I understand. I thought we we were discussing the evolving saga story, seen in the theatrical releases with which the ST is part.
     
  21. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    You can evolve the story without having to rely on the same story beats. Luke can face someone like Asajj Ventress and Savage Opress without it being about balancing the Force. One of the younger Jedi characters can fall to the dark side, but not disrupt the balance and there would be conflict between trying to save them and having to take them down permanently.
     
    K Ran likes this.
  22. K Ran

    K Ran Jedi Youngling

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    Jun 6, 2014
    Which will absolutely happen. Disney is not going to want to deal with the prophecy in every film they make.
     
  23. Darth Archimage

    Darth Archimage Jedi Master star 3

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    May 28, 2013
    Personally, I think we need to know what balance means. If balance was accomplished in ROTJ then we need an even bigger threat for a climatic ending to the Saga.

    Here are a couple of ways I think that can happen (I'm sure there could be other ways as well):
    1. Say for instance balance means harmony between the light and dark sides. Perhaps the threat could be the destruction of the Force altogether.
    2. If balance is what I believe it to be, a Galaxy at peace with a benevolent leader, then the climatic ending would have to threaten the Galaxy with a greater oppression and quality of life than than Palpatine ever ruled over.

    IMO, I think it will be possible to create an even bigger climatic ending to the Saga without disturbing the balance of the Force.
     
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  24. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    The climax can be something along the lines of a new superweapon, or destroying the central hub by which the enemy is located.
     
  25. K Ran

    K Ran Jedi Youngling

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    Jun 6, 2014
    Hasn't Lucas declared balance to be complete absence of Sith, comparing it to a cancer?