The Chosen One

Discussion in 'Literature' started by asimon2005, Jan 3, 2009.

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  1. T-R- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2003
    star 4
    sigh again. English words can have multiple meanings but this word does not mean virgin birth - it means asexual reproduction. If you want to call Anakin's conception asexual reproduction then do it, but you can't call it a virgin birth because that's not what it was or parthenogenesis means. The terms you reference are established to have meanings outside of their actual name, just as parthenogenesis means asexual reproduction and not its actual translated name of virgin birth.

    Shmi would have to be a virgin for it to be a virgin birth, otherwise it would simply be a miraculous/unexplained birth - or asexual if you wanted to stick with parthenogenesis.

    What's amusing and annoying is that you can't understand that terms in greek do not always translate literally to what they describe. This terms translates as virgin birth but does not mean virgin birth - it means asexual reproduction.

    It's an asexual birth not a virgin birth. Asexual descibes conception without fertilization.

    Oh boy. That explains alot. I mean Luke even referenced his mother in RotJ so how could you think Anakin conceived Luke without a mother?

    Have a good day. I'm finished with this absurd discussion.
  2. Qui-Gon_Reborn Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 2008
    star 6
    It's not absurd, really. If we're gonna have a Chosen One, it'd be nice to know where he came from!
  3. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Blame that on Shmi.
  4. DarthUr Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2008
    star 4
    Uh, "partheno-" means "virgin" and "-genesis" means "birth". "Virgin birth".

    It doesn't literally mean "asexual reproduction" at all. You couldn't use it to describe yeast budding or bacteria dividing.

    Uh, parthenogenesis means a specific kind of asexual reproduction, that being "virgin birth".

    What you seem to be hung up on is refusing to acknowledge that the term "virgin birth" itself doesn't literally mean "a woman who's never had sex giving birth".

    Uh, the Greek term, in Greek, means "virgin birth". No Greek speaker would dispute this. The reason English speakers use the Greek term "parthenogenesis" for "virgin birth" is that they already used "virgin birth" to mean "virgin birth", in English.

    "Virgin birth" doesn't literally mean "a virgin who gives birth". It's still a virgin birth, for instance, if she never gives birth at all -- if she becomes pregnant and the baby miscarries, it's still a virgin birth.

    The *English* term doesn't literally mean what the individual component words imply. It's not a special property of Greek that sometimes Greek words are used metaphorically, figuratively or hyperbolically.

    Well, no, the term "asexual" is much broader than that. In this situation that's what the word "virgin" means.

    The term "virgin" means different things in different contexts. There are multiple social definitions people will use of the word "virgin", after all -- in some contexts it means someone who's never had sexual intercourse, in others it simply means someone who's never been married. (Similarly in some contexts it means someone who's never had *any* kind of sexual contact, in others it means someone who's never had heterosexual intercourse.)

    Just like the word "asexual" -- in the *biological* sense when we talk about an *organism* being asexual we mean it doesn't use sexual reproduction as a biological mechanism and isn't separated into sexes. However, in the *social* sense we can describe *people* as being "asexual" without implying that they don't have X and Y chromosomes or are infertile -- the social definition of "asexual" simply means someone who doesn't have sexual/romantic feelings or pursue sexual relationships.

    From the biological definition saying that any human being is "asexual" is absurd, and saying that a human being who volunteers to be a surrogate mother and conceives and bears a child could possibly be "asexual" would be doubly absurd. From a *social* standpoint it makes perfect sense.

    Similarly, to say that someone who was wildly sexually active in her teens but who has been chaste for decades and is now suddenly pregnant is a "virgin" in the *social* sense of the term is absurd. However, in the specific case where biologists use the term "virgin" or "partheno-" in the context of "virgin birth", it makes perfect sense -- she is, in fact, a virgin birth. Her womb may not have been "virgin" for her whole life but it was "virgin" of any male seed when she got pregnant, now. The fact that this use of the term is not perfectly consistent does not make it "wrong".

    (And that's far more verbiage than should really have been expended on this topic, but gosh darn it if I'm not annoyed.)

  5. KnightDawg Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2007
    star 4
    No, it's better left to each person's imagination. We also don't know Yoda's origin, whatever happened to Darth Revan, who the heck was Darth Nihilus, how Darth Sidious was found, and etc.....

    Some things are left unknown. I for one, prefer that Darth Plagues created life and used Shimi as the host and sent her away to a distant planet so she could raise his creation and for his creation to remain hidden from the Jedi and his apprentice (Darth Sidious).
  6. DarthUr Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2008
    star 4
    I disagree with Darth Revan. That's not just a bit of unexplained intriguing backstory, that's a *genuine cliffhanger* that, left unresolved, leaves the entire story arc of those two games unresolved.
  7. Qui-Gon_Reborn Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 2008
    star 6
    In regards to Revan and Nihilus, I suspect those will be answered before long.
  8. Fettclone1 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2006
    star 1
    This thread was most certainly created by Win.

    __

    I have an idea about Anakin's origin that I dreamed up one day, although it probably won't be popular-


    Qui-Gon Jinn was his father.


    Think about it: Who else with specific knowledge could directly ensure they wound up on Tatooine?

    Imagine awkward stolen glances as Qui-Gon and Shmi hoodwink Obi-Wan.

    Think about what it would mean character-wise.

    Anyway, it's just something fun I leave open as a possibility in my personal fanon.
  9. Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 6
    ...so many inappropriate responses that I can't post.

    He was, but being a greedy slave owner doesn't necessarily mean he beat his slaves.
  10. Qui-Gon_Reborn Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 2008
    star 6
    No, it doesn't, but it does not mean that he didn't.
  11. Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 6
    It doesn't but the films depict Watto as using Anakin as more of an employee than what is typically associated with a slave.
  12. Dawud786 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 28, 2006
    star 4
    You could think of the Force acting via midi-chlorians to either alter Shmi's DNA to create the necessary sperm cell that would fertilize her egg... or a midichlorian or a group of midichlorians could've somehow transformed into a sperm cell themselves, and they would presumably be either entirely different DNA or DNA based upon Shmi's DNA.

    It's not a coincidence that Anakin looks like his Nordic mother. He'd've looked Semitic had his mother been portrayed by a Semite actress and had Luke been portrayed by a Semite.
  13. Qui-Gon_Reborn Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 2008
    star 6
    Perhaps, but he does force him to compete in the podraces, harangues him about petty matters, "What took you so long?" and would have sold him to Qui-Gon and seperated him from his mother.
  14. QuentinGeorge Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 12, 2003
    star 5

    It's not a coincidence that Anakin looks like his Nordic mother. He'd've looked Semitic had his mother been portrayed by a Semite actress and had Luke been portrayed by a Semite.



    Pernilla August is not particularly Nordic looking. She has dark hair and eyes, and believe it or not, has actually played a Semite at least once.
  15. Shadojoker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 15, 2000
    star 4
    boy does this thread has legs on it or what?? good topic...extremely debatable subjects that just leads to endless debates...keep it up fellas & gals! :D

    Shadojoker
  16. Qui-Gon_Reborn Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 2008
    star 6
    Isn't that the truth...[face_laugh]
  17. DarthUr Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2008
    star 4
    Uh, actually I found myself distracted by how little Anakin resembles his supposed mother. Seriously, different hair color, different eye color, vastly differently shaped features -- nothing is similar except their skin tone.

    Also: Both Luke and Leia have distinctive cleft chins (Luke's is more pronounced). Neither Anakin nor Padme have any trace of one. The gene for a cleft chin is dominant -- it should be impossible for two parents who both lack a cleft chin to pass the trait on.

    Something is strongly amiss here.
  18. QuentinGeorge Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 12, 2003
    star 5
    [image=http://groovyvic.mu.nu/archives/images/108499img2.jpg]

    Hmmm...
  19. younghansolo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2002
    star 3
    YES, YES! to DarthUR you listen!
  20. Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 6
    He does, but again forcing him to compete in race that he seems sure won't cause Anakin any harm doesn't equate to beating his slave.
  21. Daft-Vader Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2008
    star 8
    I disagree here, Watto didn't want to lose Anakin, hence the reason he used the weighted dice; Shmi didn't do much, but Anakin was prized by Watto, he was very valuable - he can fix most objects and flies pod races, and in Tatooine Ghost, in the Recording it shows Watto didn't want to lose him, and went on about him for weeks after he'd lost him.

    Daft-Vader
  22. Dawud786 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 28, 2006
    star 4
    I do believe I cited that portrayal earlier in the thread. Of course, her not resembling a Semite... particularly not a Semite of that era... had nothing to do with her being cast considering the long tradition of depicting neither Mary nor Jesus as Semites in Christendom...
  23. Qui-Gon_Reborn Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 2008
    star 6
    [image=http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/b/ba/AnakinEstGrumpy.png]

    That looks like a cleft chin to me...

    Perhaps, but Rise and Fall had a flashback experienced by Anakin in which Watto beat him up. So...[face_thinking]
  24. QuentinGeorge Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 12, 2003
    star 5
    I do believe I cited that portrayal earlier in the thread. Of course, her not resembling a Semite... particularly not a Semite of that era... had nothing to do with her being cast considering the long tradition of depicting neither Mary nor Jesus as Semites in Christendom...

    Well, there really is no such thing as the archetypical "Semite of that era" since the Levant was one of the most ethnically and culturally mixed areas of the classical world, and a historical Jesus (if indeed there was such a person) could have had any mix of Hebrew, Arab, Greek, Syriac, Persian, Roman, Samaritan or Egyptian blood.
  25. Daft-Vader Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2008
    star 8
    Hmm, doesn't Palpatine have quite a cleft chin...
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