ST The cinematography of The Force Awakens - Based on the teaser trailer

In some ways, but hopefully not overt ones. The crash zooms (not like the BSG-style one in the teaser, the more Scorsese-style ones mixed with rapid cutting) and playing with frame rates would not work for SW, I feel.

I'd be surprised and kinda disappointed if those elements found their way in... they are more suited to the exploitation style that Miller uses for those films.

I suspect Johnson will even find it difficult working in his cherished Wes Anderson-style 90-degree pans.

 

It depends on what each technique is used for. If they just implement certain techniques for the sake of doing something different, without really evaluating if it's right for a certain scene, that'd be dreadful. However, if there's a scene in Episodes VIII or IX that something like what's seen in Fury Road would work for? Go for it, I say. It wouldn't be completely unprecedented. They messed with frame-rate during Luke's venture into the cave, I believe.

 

Well I'm no auteur, but it seems to me that white and gray on white and gray will naturally have less contrast than white and black on sand.

 

Yeah, and Obi-Wan's death, but those are overtly slowing down the action for a slo-mo effect, not removing frames as Miller does.

 

I think those are good points well made. I have no issue with directors having a colour palette that they use from film to film... I’d rather see that done with lighting and colour within set as opposed to colour grading in post, but I think there are worse offenders than Abrams on that front... and I don't think the colour palette has to necessarily translate to the environments on screen. The use of colours is more of a creative/artistic one than one based on ‘in film’ logic.

 

Contrast has never really been a massive feature of blockbusters movies, even for the movies shot on film. The contrast in the OT is a lot lower than what we have seen in TFA so far. The contrast in TFA teasers has a very modern day, video game look to them.

 

The contrast is very similar to much of the PT (IMO) and is very evident in the high quality giffs.

 

I disagree. Even the most high contrast episode, ROTS have very soft lines compared to recent movies.

Well, we can always take a look at this scene for comparision.



The scene itself is very soft in contrast, and bearing in mind that TFA is supposedly shot on film as opposed to digital, digital cameras have nothing to do with it.

 

I'm starting to wonder if you're confusing contrast with sharpness?

You seem to be describing the softness of a picture, and not its white/black levels.

Also, "color grading" and "lighting" isn't the same thing. There are multiple examples of people calling a lighting effect "color grading".

I'm not trying to be antagonistic here, but I'm unconvinced that you've got a firm grip on what it is you're actually talking about. Like your concept of how cinematography works comes from the picture settings on an average television set.

 

Yes. Color-grading and lightning a film is not the same. You would be able to adjust the lightning of course, in the telecine in post production. And you can pretty much do everything your heart desires these days, in that process. But as i explained earlier, in a different thread, extensive color grading, or overusing the tools that comes with that "weapon", is something i hope Abrams will be careful with. The worst example being the Hobbit Trilogy where there is almost no natural light left, you feel almost claustrophobic about the settings and the worlds Jackson tries to seduce us into. Where there was a lot more natural colors, or more open and raw feel about the look in TLOTR. I don`t want the ST to look like a hipster trilogy from the commercial word hell. I have not seen Abrams Star Treks for a while, so not sure how "blue" they look like. I don`t think the TFA teasers look so " blue" though. And yes, you will have to adjust the whole film in the end in the telecine, so what it looks like now, is not necessary what it will look like in the finished movie.

 

What does this even mean, though?

Also, Lord of the Rings was color graded fairly thoroughly. I believe there are even some documentaries on the discs as to the process, and the amount of color grading going on throughout the film. There wasn't much of an "open" or "raw" feel to the look of those movies (I'm taking it to mean unaltered or not color-timed?).

 

Needs more cyan.

 

Ha. Sorry. To fast on the keyboard there. Commercial WORLD it should say. And what i meant: That many who work with advertising or commercials color-grade at lot, saturate, polish it. Hipsters are everywhere i guess btw.

Its true about Lord of the Rings as you say, i just feel Jackson went even a bit further with this tool in the Hobbit Trilogy, in what maybe should have been a more open and playful palette, from a children's book.

 

Cool, I get you. And yeah, there's a lot of stuff that Jackson went too far on with the Hobbit. The look of the film is definitely one of those things.

 

I don't remember the ST reboots having a terribly narrow color palette but it's been awhile.

 

They don't. If anything, the 2009 version was pretty frequently praised for being very colorful and vibrant. Into Darkness (obviously) a little less so, but it was still pretty vivid/vibrant/varied.

 

I generally prefer open color. The extreme grading is just too fakey to me. If you wanna change the color change the set and costumes. Agree w the comments re: the Hobbit trilogy. Just too much. Looked obviously tampered with and it bugged me the whole time.

 

The color looks more natural IMO in the second trailer. The shot with Poe looks very photo realistic. The shot with the stormtroopers turning to the camera is true white. It did not look color graded at all. As far as cinematography I like and love what I see so far. I can't wait to see and hear the fight scenes and space battles. JJ IMO films action very well and I like that he is not just copying Lucas. The different look of each film in the saga is one of the most rewarding aspects of it. I love the opening shot of both trailers and the shots of Kylo have been awesome! The falcon chase sequence on Jakku looks fun and energetic. There has been nothing amateur about the look of this film. I cant wait to hear some dialogue, if the delivery sounds right we are in for a treat! Can't wait!

 

Oh, I'm definitely welcome people who is willingly to correct me on the stuff I am wrong about. I think sharpness is probably a better word to use, but I wasn't sure if that is a right word to use in terms of describing it. Well, the issue with lighting nowadays is that it is often edited and processed in post-production, and the post-production process is also becoming an important part of cinematography itself. ]

I really hope you can comment more on the cinematography and share some of what you know to people like me who know a lot less that I should.

This image has been posted earlier, but I think this is a good example of the blue that features so prominently in Star Trek.




Again, I do not have a problem with colour grading itself. In fact, I love to do colour correction in whatever video I shoot, because it makes the footages feels a lot more atmospheric and less "amateurish". I think good films would use a wide range of colours to convey different moods. It's why STID is such a contrast compared to the other films.

Lord of the Rings while relying heavily on colour correction, did not over rely on one colour tone for the 3 movies. Hobbiton is colour-timed to give a very warm vibe, while scenes with the Orcs usually features a blue-colour tone.




This scene in particular makes me feel blue is being overused in the teasers scenes. I get the point of why they would use blue lighting or colour grading, but the one that reduces the amount of blue in the shot makes it

 

You keep referencing that shot: The lights in that troop transport are blue hued. There's a shot that shows them leaving the troop transport where they're no longer under that light. You can literally see one trooper still under those lights with the greenish color, and another just in front of him, with the white color.

That's lighting. Not color grading. They're not altering the shot in post to specifically evoke a certain feeling based on the overall look (which isn't even an inherent negative, like a lot of armchair cinematographers seem to believe) They lit the shot to look like that specifically, and following shots show it not to be grading.



And "color grading" is just an evolution of "color timing," which has always been one of a cinematographer's tools. This isn't anything all that new. Cinematographers & Directors will often keep that sort of thing in mind, and set up shots keeping in mind the fact they're going to tweak the image in the lab later. That's not a new thing at all, nor is it a cheat of some type.

One of the best cinematographers who ever lived, Roger Deakins, helped prove that color grading was a viable technique/upgrade from basic color timing.

like any other filmmaking tool - it can be used incorrectly. But that doesn't mean the tool is inherently bad.

 

Well, these are some examples of shots.



















Practically every scene in every different sets features blue as a primary colour.

I admit that it not the product of lighting. Although you could certainly colour correct the lighting as seen in the shot done by one fan.

Even then, understanding how to make use of different colours is an important attribute of good cinematography. I certainly could understand using a green colour grading in films like Matrix, which is used to convey a very specific feeling to the audience.

However, it would make the movie itself more vibrant if one colour did not feature so prominently in every shot. The shot of the new stormtroopers could avoid using blue-lighting, because it is on a transport with artificial lights.

 

If I shine a bright blue light on a shiny white object, I still want that object to appear white, dammit.

 

See this is what I'm saying. Yes you can narrow or adjust the entire palette in post production. But you could also light the actual set in a way that produces the same effect but looks more natural.

Edit: yeah ST is leaning waaaay more on blue than I rember if those shots are par but it seems that was also a consideration during shooting

I think it's just a matter of getting what you want from the shot before it hits the lens and the more that happens the better. The color tweaks should be just that : tweaks.

 

What I am saying is don't shine a bright blue light all the time in a movie. Use red lights, yellow, green, orange. It helps if a movie has a wide variety of colours, especially for a Star Wars scene.

They can certainly do it. What I am wondering is will they try and avoid the common practice of over-relying on one colour in TFA. Those are the elements that are commonly used in a lot of films and fanfilms. To me, it seems to reduce the vibrancy of Star Wars as we know, be it OT or PT.