TCW Episode The Clone Wars - 5.14 - Eminence - discussion thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Seerow, Jan 16, 2013.

  1. StarWarsFan91 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2008
    star 4
    I don't see anything controversial with Luke force choking the gamorreans. Technically force chocking is not a dark side power. Yes it is often used by darksiders and not by jedi, but that does not make the act inherently evil.

    After all it is an example of using Telekinesis (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Telekinesis), something users of both sides can use.

    It depends on how certain Telekinesis is used, in whether it is darkside or lightside. For example, if a force user uses force push to intentionally push a man to his death, even though it wasn't in self-defense (but murder) while taking pleasure in doing so, then that is pretty darkside. That doesn't mean using force push is evil because darksiders can use it for evil, for a Jedi can use the same technique for non-evil purposes.

    Now if Luke chocked the Gamorreans, and though they were no longer a threat, preceded to chock them to death (while feeling negative emotions) then yes that would be a step towards the darkside.

    But no, Luke force chocked in a more good way, just using it to stop the Gamorreans from preventing him into the Palace, but not using it to kill (he let them go after he passed).
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  2. Nexumaster Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 21, 2005
    star 4
    Now this was a really great episode which didn't disappoint at all; a much welcome return to the darker, more heavy storylines. I really liked how the episode played out with Maul and Savage being rescued by Death Watch who then nurses them back to health and strikes a deal with them, cooperating to gather allies for the takeover of Mandalore (for one thing, the dialogue and interactions between Pre Vizsla and Maul were great). Seeing Mustafar again was great and I quite liked that they brought in Black Sun and the Falleen species (also a cool sequence with Maul killing the five leaders of the branch at the table; it was dark indeed). I also liked the designs of those Pyke guys and it was great to see the Hutt Council again as well as some familiar bounty hunters. The action was great, especially the Maul bros. and Death Watch versus the Hutt's goons and the bounty hunters; seeing Sugi and Embo going head on against the brothers was indeed quite cool and impressive, especially of Sugi who did great against Maul himself, I wondered if she was gonna get killed. It was also a bit surprising that they killed off a member of the Hutt Council since I ever since they first appeared, I thought those guys were more or less 'safe', but it's good to know that they are not shy to kill off such characters.

    As for Bo-Katan, Vizsla's main henchwoman who's finally seen without her helmet, I think I'm really starting to like her; she's tough, dependable and not to mention she seem to have a sense of humor as well. That last look she had on her face at the end of the episode after Vizsla told her that he'd kill the brothers after the takeover definitely made me wonder if she was thinking that he underestimates them. After finding herself in Maul's grip earlier on in the episode (which was a great sequence) I think she definitely learned not to take them for fools; either way, it will be interesting to see more of her in the upcoming episodes. I must admit that I didn't have any problems with the pacing, much since I know there's only this one and two more left so I can understand they want to skip some middle things and go for the important stuff. The only thing I can think of I didn't like was that the involvement of Dengar and Latts Razzi felt unnecessary since the two of them didn't really get to do anything and felt rather useless in the episode.

    Again, great episode and a worthy continuation of this season's Maul arc. Two thumbs up.
    Last edited by Nexumaster, Jan 20, 2013
  3. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 6
    that'll be Padme :p :p jk
  4. Jordan1Kenobi Host of EUC Battle of... Games

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    Lol, Darth Maul sitting in the Chancellor's seat talking to the Jedi and the Senate and they don't even notice who it is, and Obi-Wan just casually talks to him not noticing the red face and the horns on his head.
    V-2 likes this.
  5. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    The comparison to Vader is intentional and is meant to show the dark side in Luke.

    I would say force choking is absolutely a dark side power and inherently evil, as there's basically zero reason to use it for good. Choking is a very scary experience. There's virtually no situation in which choking someone serves a purpose some other less torturous technique would not serve better. There is no "non evil" reason to choke someone. (I'm sure you can come up with some absurd example, but don't bother.)

    No, it was not in a good way. It's not much of a good way when there were other obviously far better ways, like simply holding them back with the Force (no reason to put it around their throats and squeeze), putting them to sleep or using a mind trick on them like he did Bib Fortuna. Gamorreans are dumb as hell, they'd be easy to mind trick.

    Instead, Luke caused them pain and made them feel like they were on the edge of death in order to intimidate them. Choking is a sort of "near death" experience, there's nothing merciful about it.

    Luke at this point has become powerful, and with that came arrogance, he wasn't about to suffer foolish Gamorreans, so he just flicked his hand and choked them. After that he walks into Jabba's throne room and starts making demands and threatening people. It's pretty clear he's got a dark edge to him.

    In case you missed it, Lucas dressed Luke in all black to make it even more obvious.
  6. ImNotAStarWarsFanboy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2011
    star 5
    That's not true! THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE!!!
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  7. SpecialOpsUnit Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 1, 2007
    star 4
    The way he said it along with the bored look on his face was priceless. Like that's the best you got for me? I just threatened to end your life and that's it?
  8. Billy_Dee_Binks Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2002
    star 4
    True, that was a great stand-out moment for sure.
    One of those few instances where a character shines a light to the over-expository dialogue nature of the show and throws it back at the person who had said it.
    V-2 and Order66Survivor like this.
  9. Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4

    Grievous will be next! 6 dead clones for sure can easily happen...




    The Savage lion roar was retarded...


    The way Filoni treats these episodes is very silly!




    Well, not in all cases... Dark is fine, but they are doing dark just for the sake of dark. Even with the scene above.
    Dark can be awesome... like in S2 - still the best done dark stuff.

    PS: Can not wait this stupid arc to be over.


    Yup, George is kinda of the person that says "to hell with what you love"...
    Last edited by Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan, Jan 20, 2013
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  10. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 4
    Man, I'm so glad they gave Darth Maul a new but more familiar look. He looks so much better, now.
  11. Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
  12. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 6
    he never was naked [face_laugh]
  13. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 4
    I wonder how Deathwatch found them? Distress signal, perhaps? They never said how, did they?
  14. Super_Battle_Droid Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2002
    star 5
    Yeah, he lost his junk.
  15. StarWarsFan91 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2008
    star 4
    I'm afraid i have to disagree. Chocking can be evil, but not always. It can be a tool for murder, but it can also be one of self-defense (such as if something is trying to kill you with there hands, no weapons involved or for some reason you have to defend yourself with only your hands, so go for the enemies neck).

    Saying Chocking is evil, is like saying shootings someone with a gun or punching/kicking someone (that can lead to injury on said person) is always evil.

    By the way, i think there is a method of cutting off someone's air supply without killing them but simply leaving them unconscious (though it is a dangerous technique).

    Making it harder for someone to breath is not always evil.
    Last edited by StarWarsFan91, Jan 20, 2013
  16. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    No words. [face_plain]
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  17. Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    I am betting as random as it can be. If George wants, George gets.

    He was.... he was bare skin and bare metal.
    cwustudent likes this.
  18. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 6
    well he couldn't wear robes, cause of those claw-like legs
  19. StarWarsFan91 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2008
    star 4
    Im sorry, i just believe in something called, "SELF DEFENSE".

    If the only way to stop a threat to my life or someone i care about is chocking them, then i would. Im talking about chocking a threat that is out to kill/hurt me.

    And remember, chocking someone does not always mean chocking them with the intent to kill, it could also to make someone unconscious.

    Now say hypothetically i know how and how long i need to chock someone in order for them to go unconscious. Also in this scenario i get the drop on my gun wielding opponent, and i have the strength to do it. Is it then evil to chock a man that is trying to hurt me? No its not.

    I don't think using a gun either for self defense is evil, nor is punching or kicking, so why would chocking?
    Last edited by StarWarsFan91, Jan 20, 2013
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  20. swcolts1277 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2013
    star 2
    Possibly my favorite episode of the show. Animation, sound, writing, voice acting, everything taken to new heights. Great stuff. Putting villains together like this is just genius. Also great seeing our favorite bounty hunters again. I was expecting Embo and/or Sugi to die. For sure didn't expect Oruba the Hutt would die. This show is not a kids show, it is a show for us Star Wars fans to enjoy (and sometimes hate) but that just makes us the most passionate fanbase out there.
  21. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Well, that's special.

    I believe torture is evil, and I know for a fact that having one's airways close up is torture.

    Anakin choked Poggle in Brain Invaders and while he saved Ahsoka and Barriss' lives, the act itself was still evil and there was a reason he didn't tell the Jedi about it.
  22. DarthVengeant Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2004
    star 3
    THIS is what Star Wars is and should be!!! This episode is what the entire CW series should be like. Period. Not the drab pointless filler kiddie garbage we have gotten most the season so far (even more so in the previous 4 episodes). I fail to see how they can waste time on garbage filler when they can produce gems like this. Imo they should cut the seasons in half to 12 episodes and leave all the filler crap out. Pure orgasm of an episode, and it will only get better for the next few. This Story Arch will be the best of the season and one of the best of the entire series. QUALITY OVER QUANTITY!!!
    Last edited by DarthVengeant, Jan 20, 2013
  23. StarWarsFan91 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2008
    star 4
    I agree it was. But also Poggle was not at that moment a threat to Anakin's life.

    Torture is evil, but there is a difference in chocking a man to get info out of him, while chocking a man who at that moment is trying to murder you.
  24. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    Reported for being off topic.

    I expect myself, anakinfan and StarWarsFan91 to be banned any moment.
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  25. ImNotAStarWarsFanboy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2011
    star 5
    chocking present participle of chock (Verb)

    Verb
    1. Prevent the forward movement of (a wheel or vehicle) with a chock.
    2. Support (a boat, cask, etc.) on chocks.
    It does sound pretty evil.
    Last edited by ImNotAStarWarsFanboy, Jan 20, 2013