TCW Episode The Clone Wars - 5.14 - Eminence - discussion thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Seerow, Jan 16, 2013.

  1. Mr. Atom Bomb Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 1
    Okay, it's already well established that I hate the idea of Maul + Death Watch coming together, but surprisingly that's not what annoyed me the most about this episode.

    No, what pissed me off to no end was their continued insistence on using ****ing LION sound effects for Savage and Maul. It's ridiculously stupid and over-the-top. Every ten year old and their poor mother watching understands by now that they're vicious, badass "animals"- you don't need to shove it in our faces as a constant reminder of your failure to understand the concept of subtlety. I'm amazed the action figures don't have roaring features yet. :rolleyes:

    If this had just been about Death Watch struggling to rally an army without Maul's involvement, I probably would have really enjoyed it. Shame.

    Other than that, it was a very unremarkable episode. Just build up, so my opinion of this episode probably will change depending on the pay off in the next two weeks.
    Show Spoiler
    There was no doubt in my mind that all of the bounty hunters would make it out alive, so there was no tension there at all. Convenient how the dog just got force pushed away and not cut in half. [face_whistling]
    Last edited by Mr. Atom Bomb, Jan 19, 2013
    Order66Survivor and CT-867-5309 like this.
  2. Darth Pipes Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 1999
    star 5
    Really good episode. Maul and Death Watch made for a fun combination and I loved seeing all the various underworld types. Terrific animation as always and a lot of great environments. They brought back some great voice talent too. Jon Favareu, Katee Sackhoff, Sam Witwer, and Clancy Brown. Sackhoff and Witwer makes for a BSG reunion. Only thing that annoyed me was the bounty hunter group lasting as long as they did with Maul...only because they barely seem to give Obi-Wan and Anakin that much respect in a fight with Maul and Savage.
    Order66Survivor and Valairy Scot like this.
  3. Barriss_Coffee Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2003
    star 6
    Even though I had already seen the preview months ago.... seeing a bunch of Falleen on my friggin TV screen was still one of the biggest geek-out moments of my life.:D
  4. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    Not bad, but not particularly good, either.

    • The Darksaber is just incredibly lame.
    • Maul "We are the true Lords of the Siff". I didn't know he was voiced by Will Smiff.
    • Maul drops the "Will of the Force" did it. How convenient.
    • Savage smashes the med droids like Vader, then flexes hand like Luke.
    • The Falleen looked off to me, too bulky.
    • Black Sun was taken over in like two seconds. Weak.
    • Boy, armies are so easy to raise.
    • It was a good move to have the Hutts resist. No one just shows up in Hutt space and makes demands.
    • I liked Bo-Katan's laughing and "I see negotiations have gone as planned". She could be a cool character.
    • It was good to see my girl Latts Razzi again.
    • The fight with the bounty hunters was hit and miss. Hit, they're cool. Miss, should have been killed by the superior Maul and Savage, but I guess they really couldn't be killed. It's a bit of a double edged sword, because if you kill them off you lose cool characters. I thought it was smart to have them escape, though.
    • It was cool to see the Mandos fly around. It felt like seeing true Mando combat for the first time on screen.
    • Smart to have the Hutts escape while the bounty hunters covered them. That's what Hutts would do.
    • Smart having Jabba comply, he could use this arrangement to his advantage. I'm sure he's scheming already, and it could lead to him becoming the major crime lord we see later in the timeline.
    This was a build up episode and the build up was poor, it lacked drama, inspiration and subtlety. It failed to build any tension in me, it didn't leave me wanting more. The action was mostly simple and uninspired. I give them credit for the fast pace and action, but it was a bit too fast, Maul and Savage just built a massive, well supplied army in one episode and it was far too easy. It'll get a passing grade, but not a good one.
    Last edited by CT-867-5309, Jan 19, 2013
    Order66Survivor likes this.
  5. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    Best episode of the season IMO. Still doesn't quite erase the bad taste Onderon and WAC left in my mouth, but hopefully it's a sign that the latter part of this season will be good from here on out.

    +Action
    +Hutts don't speak basic (you can understand everything just fine based on character response with no need of subtitles - though they could have included them anyway, for those that can read)
    +A variety of locales!! - no getting stuck in one location for an entire episode like most of this season. It makes the episode actually feel like something out of Star Wars and makes the episode feel longer
    -Bounty Hunter plot armor
    -Savage roaring
    +Pre Vizsla plotting against the Sith... They let that little detail come out in the very last dialogue (I was worried Vizsla was just going to become Maul's ***** and not realize he's being used)
    -Mustafar
    -Why do only the Maul episodes get any effort put into them?
    -Death Watch is suddenly honorable again, after their last appearance where they looked like a bunch of drunk pirates.
    +Better animation

    Overall my compaints are mostly nitpicks. It was a really good episode, made all the more sweet by coming after an abomination of an arc.

    My rating: 4/5


    P.S. 2,000 neutral systems influenced by Mandalore is enough to render the CIS and Republic irrelevant? o_O

    Said neutral systems wouldn't have an army... Maul, go home. You're drunk.
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Jan 19, 2013
  6. aldrestjedimaster Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 1
    I liked his episode it was refreshing compared to the droid arc. This was only a build up but I really enjoyed it, I can't wait for the next episode!
  7. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    They put effort into this? Could have fooled me, looks like they just took the simplest route.
  8. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 6
    Yes, i believe it's the Lawless we see that
  9. Barriss_Coffee Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2003
    star 6
    Yeah, I thought that was odd. Dunno who they're talking about there.

    Unless... by "neutral," he's accidentally included the TFN/IBC/Techno Union-affiliated "neutral" planets. In which case.... he's gonna have his hands full.
    Order66Survivor likes this.
  10. Dynoblaze Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 16, 2010
    star 1
    I think this arc takes place before the episode where they act like pirates.


    To be fair, considering how easy it was to "influence" Black Sun and the Hutts I'm sure they could just go to each system, kill a few people, and get massive recruitment. :p
    Order66Survivor likes this.
  11. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    I would think because Maul was involved in the events of TPM and would have to have some kind of idea of what Palpatine's plan was, that he would understand that the TF is probably firmly under Palpatine's control.
    Order66Survivor likes this.
  12. Barriss_Coffee Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2003
    star 6
    I would assume that, but then I'd also assume the Republic wouldn't be hoodwinked by the TF/IBC/etc's claims to neutrality while they're bragging about funding droid armies without abandon. At this point "neutral" is an annoyingly nebulous term.
    Order66Survivor likes this.
  13. Dynoblaze Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 16, 2010
    star 1
    This episode was decent. I thought it was brilliant at first but upon a second viewing I realized it only seemed brilliant because of the previous mind numbing arc. I thought it was a decent episode that did a serviceable job setting up the framework for the later episodes. Hopefully the quality will build up with each episode.

    Some things I thought were strange/bad:

    Black Sun folding so quickly. Honestly after all the EU stories I've read with them in it I thought they'd at least give resistance like the Hutts did.

    It seems strange that everyone's joining Vizla and Maul so quickly. These are powerful organizations with literally hundreds of thugs. You'd think that it would be Black Sun + Hutts + Pirates + others vs Maul + Mandos. Or at least the organizations would say "go choke yourself" and just send wave after wave of goons against them.

    The Hutts had to know that Vizla and Maul would track them, yet Jabba had no defense waiting for them? You'd think some turbolasers would have opened up the minute Vizlas ships entered their airspace.

    I'm still tired of the symbolism and film references being rammed down my throat. I get it Savage trashed the room like Vader and flexed his hand like Luke. That didn't make me geek out, that made me roll my eyes. Lion roars for Savage and Maul. Oooo the Sith are bad scary people. Yes I get it. I'm sure even 8 year olds get it. You don't need to constantly treat people and kids like they can't understand symbolism.

    Is it me or did the Mandos kick and punch guards unnecessarily when they could have just shot them?

    The bounty hunters lasted damn long against Maul and Savage. I dare say they did better than Obi Wan and Ventress ever did. I know someone was probably reluctant to kill them off but come on....it's a war, people other than guards, random clones, and droid need to go.
    Order66Survivor likes this.
  14. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    Didn't Obi-Wan hand Maul and Savage an ass whipping in the season opener?
    pronker likes this.
  15. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    I agree with the negative sentiments of the:

    "hey join us"
    "ok"

    quickness that happened with the pikes and Black Sun. But to really extend their acquisition out would have led to an overflow of plot into another episode, which I wouldn't care for. I can accept Black Sun giving up real quick when their leadership is abruptly taken out, if the alternative is spending another episode showing Maul and Savage doing a repeat of what went down with the Hutts, only with Black Sun. They're moving right along and are ready to move onto the next stage in the next episode, which I like.
    Valairy Scot likes this.
  16. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    Hey @Barriss_Coffee

    When you heard "Pyke" mentioned, did you think of Zu and Zan, like I did?

    Tarados, I'll give them a break on the quick and easy recruitment drive. I'm usually an advocate of getting the plot out of the way as quick as possible and just saying "Okay, go". But it wasn't done with any sort of impressive quality. It might have been better to just skip the whole recruitment and just mention that the Hutts, Black Sun and the rest are backing Maul, Savage and Death Watch.
    Last edited by CT-867-5309, Jan 19, 2013
  17. KED12345 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2012
    star 4
    You find that people give in pretty bloody quick when they have lightsabers at their throats.

    That's hardly a flaw in this episode.
    V-2 and The Shadow Emperor like this.
  18. Zer0 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 3
    Those Lion sounds..cringe worthy.

    Not a bad episode, but just build up, so nothing amazing.
  19. Seerow SWTV★Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2011
    star 6
    Liked this one, definitely one of the best of the season.

    This episode is pretty much building up the rest of the arc with Maul meeting Deathwatch and setting up his plan. It moved at a breakneck pace and did it fairly well. Some sequences felt short but there was alot of stuff to cram in. The dynamic between Maul and Vizsla is interesting. Vizsla seems stupid for picking Maul and Savage up and basically falling in line however its giving him some interesting character development. However he isn't blind. Its interesting to watch his restraint each time Maul talks down to him. I am actually sensing some conflicting honor. Bo-Katan didn't speak much but was cool in this episode. I hope there are a few more characters in Deathwatch we get to know. There were some really cool alien designs. The fight with the bounty hunters was awesome. I was surprised Sugi didn't die myself and surprised by how well they stood up to Maul and Savage. Embo vs. Savage was an awesome highlight.

    I actually thought that when Maul mentioned the 2,000 nuetral systems he was indicating to bring them under Mandalore in fear and enslave to populous to create a bigger army or something like that. That's how you get armies from places that don't have one. Spectacularly dark. The episode returned TCW to the darker more mature series it was becoming during season 4. I do like Maul's guile.

    My biggest complaint was actually Savage growling and roaring with obvious pantherine sounds. Think that'll knock a point off.
    Last edited by Seerow, Jan 19, 2013
  20. DarthTalgus Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 3
    I give this episode 7/10 because Maul didn't say brother that much :p
  21. Hansa Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2013
    star 1
    Loved this episode, but felt something was missing. Not sure what, but there's something I'm not getting out of the experience. Maybe it just felt a bit rushed.

    As for the episode, I love how the Mandalorians are back in their groove. They are wearing very customized pieces of armour there, and Clan Vizsla is finally admitted in name in the series. Darth Maul looks much better in his new robes, something I've been missing. That's appearances, but that's just my first viewing.:)

    And I like how Vizsla clenches his fists at Maul's remark. It's obvious he doesn't like this alliance as much as he thought. No honour in trading in the Underworld, right?
    Last edited by Hansa, Jan 19, 2013
    Order66Survivor likes this.
  22. Barriss_Coffee Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2003
    star 6
    Haha -- yes, I did! There was that instantaneous moment when Vizsla mentioned he contacted the Pykes and I was all like, "Ah hellz yes, Pike sisters! ....oh wait." I guess the Falleens had me expecting anything at that point.

    Although these new Pykes are sort of neat. Hopefully this isn't another case of "here's a bizarre new species. They won't do anything important, aside from replace some of those no-name background Ithorians and Rodians in future episodes."
  23. Darth_Foo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2003
    star 4
    I'd like to think that this episode took place over the course of a month or two. We just got to see the highlights.

    For the first time in three episodes I didn't have the urge to fast-forward.
    Order66Survivor likes this.
  24. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 6
    Those robes look like his old robes from TPM
  25. Hansa Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2013
    star 1
    Yeah, exactly! Been missing him in robes. :)