TCW Episode The Clone Wars - 5.15 - Shades of Reason - discussion thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Seerow, Jan 23, 2013.

  1. ObiAlKenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2012
    star 2
    I loved the duel at the end. Anyone else wish the "Jango vs. Mace" moment in AOTC was a little more drawn out and similar to this? I do. I hated how it was handled in the movie. And it showed how impressive Mandalorians can be against Jedi.
  2. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    Hence the reason he praised Savage for recognizing that honor is their weakness. And I also agee with @V_2, there is more going on with Maul's plot than what meets the eye. @TreborSabreon He only used the force passively, to get to his feet, back flip away or to negate the advantage of the jet pack by jumping to meet Vizla in the air... he challenged the Mando to a death duel, not force contest. If he had simply force choked him to death like Savage did the guard on the way in, Death Watch would have opened fire. Maul had to take the fight down to Vizla's level, but that does not take anything away from how Pre went out. Sam Jackson would approve of his punkless death.
    Last edited by SithStarSlayer, Jan 27, 2013
  3. rumblewagon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2004
    star 4
    [IMG]
    "You may take my Darksaber, BUT YOU WILL NEVER TAKE MY - " *urkkk* *gurgle*
    + great visual/action sequences
    + Maul/Vizsla fight is best lightsaber battle to date.
    + Bo-Katan staying true to principle and become a great character to watch in the future.
    + Savage kicking behinds all over the place.
    + ah, the trouble with pacifism.
    - no updated Almec model? still using wooden hair/wooden character? Was there budget cuts?
    - pacing too fast. Hard to believe they take over Mandalore with a few gangster attacks and people mass (sheep) rally to Death Watch.
    - Vizsla killed??! But he's such a great villain! Nooooooooooooooo!
  4. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    This Mauldalore plot should have spanned seasons, not weeks... it feels too compacted.
    Sitara, Seerow and fistofan1 like this.
  5. Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    I know right.

    We had only 3 episodes in S2, 2 in S3 and 1 episode in S4.... They really got rid off Mandalore quite quick and did not explore it enough and did not explore Vizsla's character enough.
  6. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    Yeah, Vizla was awesome in his last act... I almost geeked out when he fired that Lanvarok.
    Shame they excluded the beautiful line...
    Last edited by SithStarSlayer, Jan 27, 2013
  7. KuriousJorj Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 23, 2004

    To even use a lightsaber properly means one is employing the Force. (though Vizsla seemed pretty good w/ the ancient black one)
    To deflect blaster bolts, especially in rapid succession, requires using the Force.
    Maul was doing flips and leaps high into the air, with perfect timing. At most, the mechanical legs explain the speed and height, not the timing. He was surely using the Force there as well.
    The concussive impact of the explosions would take out anyone, especially w/o armor. He was using the Force here as well.

    Force push/pull/choke are not the "I win!" skills folks must think they are. Sure, they work against faceless background scrubs. Not always against hero units. We've seen this (or not seen it) in past fights of Force-users vs non-Force-users.


    scenario:

    Maul Force pulls Vizsla... then impales him... or, Vizsla fires weapons x, y, z while being pulled.
    Already moving inwards, coupled w/ the incoming weapons-fire, Maul is unable to react fast enough and is wounded/killed, or at the very least, evades and disengages.

    Maul Force pushes Vizsla... damaging his jet-pack and negating a huge tactical advantage... or, Vizsla braces against the push, activates his pack, or does any number of things that negate the push.

    Maul Force chokes Vizsla... Vizsla goes unconscious... or, not being a scrub, Vizsla uses a free hand, fires any number of projectile weapons... and Maul either disengages the choke, or gets injured/killed.


    Now sure, Maul could have used more overt, blatant Force powers. Obviously he was treating this more of a 1 on 1 duel. But he still used the Force. He just didn't use Push, Pull, or Choke. (you realize the Force is used to speed reaction time, fortify and brace the body, anticipate attack, enhance physical attributes, and even just to deal with the gyroscopic nature of lightsabers, right?)
  8. Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    Pre was the most amazing character in the last episode. They made me love him again. S4 and the previous S5 episode made me dislike him.
  9. KuriousJorj Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 23, 2004

    Force Choke isn't necessarily an "I win!" move against seasoned or capable warriors. Only against scrubs, or against those not fighting back (Bo Katan).

    If Obi Wan could have Force push/pulled Jango on Kamino, he would have. If he could have used the Force to simple disarm him, he would have.

    Every Force power has a technological correlate. Employed by a prepared, experienced, and/or skilled opponent, a non-Force user can, and has, beaten a Jedi or Sith.
  10. Trebor Sabreon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 15, 2010
    star 4
    Oh, I agree that Maul did indeed use the Force, just not in any of the more obvious to the eye ways. I think it's pretty clear that most folks who are questioning things simply found it curious that Maul would not use some of the more aggressive techniques at his disposal (which, in the example of a thorough strangulation, I imagine could have made quite a difference, potentially ending the duel awfully quick-like). Personally, I thought Maul's motivations were fairly obvious, but given all of the excitement surrounding the match, I suppose I can see that some may not have picked up on it during their first viewing.

    You're right, of course, that it's always been explained that the use of the Force is required in order to block blaster bolts, but it's clear from some of the posts here that not everyone knew this to be true (is it even possible that not everyone has watched A New Hope?). The same had been said regarding the proper use of a lightsaber, but Vizsla (who, as you pointed out, certainly held his own in the fight) had no trouble wielding his blade. Even allowing for the fact that Pre was clearly shown to be a very skilled warrior, faced with this, things may have to be re-thought.
    Last edited by TreborSabreon, Jan 27, 2013
  11. Merric Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2013
    star 1
    To even use a lightsaber properly means one is employing the Force.:
    That's not true. You don't even need the force to use A lightsaber. In episode 5 Han uses Lukes lightsaber to cut open A Taun Taun, and to add even more to that, Grievous can't use the force yet he was taught the jedi arts by Dooku.

    To deflect blaster bolts, especially in rapid succession, requires using the Force.:
    Not really. Lightsabers are built so they can deflect blaster fire.

    Maul was doing flips and leaps high into the air, with perfect timing. At most, the mechanical legs explain the speed and height, not the timing. He was surely using the Force there as well.:
    As I said before just because he's fast, agile, and he can jump around like that, doesn't mean he's using the force. That's just they way Maul was taught how to fight. Sqift and agile.
  12. Trebor Sabreon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 15, 2010
    star 4
    Wait, what? [face_dunno]
  13. The Hellhammer 7SA Forum Interrogator

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2012
    star 5
    Awesome stuff. Really enjoyed this.
    Maul is damn cool and Sam Witwer's voice acting is absolutely fantastic.

    Satine is pretty annoying. Her naive idealistic attitude is just too simplistic and purely irritating, to me at least. I hope they don't chicken out at some point and have the bad guys lose yet again. I'm guessing Maul or Savage will kill that pacifist bore when they lure Obi-Wan there - and good riddance, I have to say.

    Only thing that bugs me is...we only get two episodes of taking over Mandalore and we got four episodes of that horrible frog colonel? Ugh!
    Seerow and rumblewagon like this.
  14. rumblewagon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2004
    star 4
    This 15-second clip perfectly sums up my reaction to your review:
  15. Dathomir-Witch Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2013
    star 2
    What line did they exclude?
    Seanthings likes this.
  16. Seanthings Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 8, 2012
    Wow, so I just finished watching and holy hell! Death Watch taking Mandalore was pretty rushed but I still enjoyed the ride. Maul challenging Pre Visla was brilliant, taking advantage of his honor. The only real distracting thing to me is it seemed they used the same blonde female Mandalorian "commoner" character model over and over through the episode. she seemed to pop up all over the place, but maybe thats just me.
  17. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    Its soo beautiful... /chop.
  18. DarthTalgus Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 3
    Am i the only one here that hates Bo-Katan :confused:
  19. Merric Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2013
    star 1
    I don't hate her, but I also don't see why everyone likes her so much. She's an okay character, just not great.
  20. Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    I used to hate her cause TCW was pushing her to be a badass the same way they are doing Maully, but in the latest episode she was so awesome in every way.
    rumblewagon likes this.
  21. Todd the Jedi Mod and Sitcom Dad of SWTV

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Oct 16, 2008
    star 5
    I didn't care for Bo-Katan at first because they hyped her up so much for A Friend In Need, but she ended up appearing for a minute or two and had about one line.

    Now she's better since she's an actual character and not just OMGZ MANDO GIRL!
    Last edited by Todd the Jedi, Jan 27, 2013
    rumblewagon likes this.
  22. Zer0 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 3
    Well, her being a red head instantly puts her as epic in my book.
  23. Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    She has all the features of a redhead from South Park - a ginger! :p



    It was amazing indeed. For once TCW did a duel that really looked special and was not just tanked and passed over like many of the duels in the past.
  24. CloneWarsRescored Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 2
    He never actually says that in the book. It's actually just a what he's thinking. :)
  25. Samayel_ Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2012
    star 2
    im pretty sure, but Boba have Bossk on his side