TCW Episode The Clone Wars - 5.15 - Shades of Reason - discussion thread

I grew to to seriously hate Kal Skirata and the other "orthodox" Mando'ade that were portrayed in the books, so I'm fine with those guys being excluded. I'm a much bigger fan of the more regimented, industrialized and conventional Mandos we see in the Death Watch, the True Mandalorians, and the Mandalorian Protectors. Tor Vizsla was a would-be galactic conqueror, Pre Vizsla's a militaristic nationalist who seems to even have some isolationalist leanings judging from the last episode, Mereel and Fett 1 were very much reformists and then PMC types of mercenaries, and the Protectors seem to actually be crusaders with a huge benovolent edge under Shysa.

If we're going to see any good Mandos, I want to see more of pro-bono freedom fighter Shysa from his days alongside the Alliance. Especially considering we know that Death Watch remains allied with Black Sun well into the Galactic Civil War, with both Chop'aa Notimo and "Hitch" Kris holding actual ranks inside the organization, the latter even being a Vigo rival of Xizor. When you add that in with both the Empire's and Zann Consortium's expolitation of the planet and populace, it starts to look a lot more like Shysa was the closest Mandalore gets to genuinely good leader. I wouldn't be surprised if a later retcon makes him a hero for both the enslaved Mandalorians and the New Mandalorian thanks to his more heroic bent.

Also, it's been mentioned before, but anybody else think that the razor discs fired from Vizsla's left gauntlet are Lanvarok blades? As in the Sith Lanvarok?

Oh hell.

That is a great idea or hint if you ask me... WHAT if R2 and Gascon are on the cover. R2 is just as iconic as Yoda or Maul.

LOL at Filoni's commentary.

"This isn't Boba Fett in the Sarlaac."

If only Boba had gone down with as much aplomb as Vizsla...

I liked how this episode showed the conclusion of everything developing with Satine in S2 and S3. As per the S2 episodes, her pacifists came to power after a destructive civil war that killed half the population. Satine herself tends towards idealism and lashes out at those (Almec, his special police unit) who are engaging in cold realpolitik to preserve the New Mandalorian government in S3. As a result, she leaves the New Mandalorian government and its security forces severely weakened, not due to her pacifism but due to her rigid ideals (independent of but not mutually exclusive to the former), which ultimately prompt her to concede victory to Vizsla when it's clear that he has the support of the people. Like many rulers in real world history, she has lost the will to fight for her rule.

We'll see how things turn out for her in the next episode.

Awsome episode. I don't get why some of you thought it was rushed. It had perfect pacing. While I knew Viszla would die, it was crazy seeing how it happened,

Best duel we've seen in the series, right up there with Duel of the Fates and Battle of the Heroes. Only minor complaint was that Black Sun and Pykes were underused. A whole episode about recruting them and they didn't do a whole lot. And what happened to the Hutts anyway, I thought they agreed to join Maul.

Anyway, great episode that just felt so Star Wars.

Hutts send their lackeys. They don't go into the field.

Cover: Obi-Wan
Disc One: Hondo Ohnaka
Disc Two: Sidious or Gregor
Disc Three: Ahsoka Tano

My picks.

Maybe I'm hearing too much in this, but Sackhoff's intonation of Bo-Katan's "You're all traitors!" line sounded familiar. It called to mind a certain clone...

What I meant was the Hutt soldiers, Niktos, Weequays, etc. (maybe not Gammoreans though, they would get too tired lol)

Wait what!? You mean Lucas cleaning up his own mess?!

I think getting the Hutts on-side was more about gaining "protection" in the form of the Hutts' influence, their hyperspace routes, their funding, etc.

Also, the way Jabba and Gorga were still chuckling when joining up with Maul suggests to me that they're happy to keep their direct involvement minimal. Invest in the venture, sit back and see what happens, if it profits then all the better for them, if it backfires they have fewer threads to cut.

My picks would be:
Cover: Ahsoka
Disc One: Maul
Disc Two: Grievous or R2-D2
Disc Three: Vizsla
Disc Four: Ventress or Obi-Wan
Disc Five (Special features): Sidious

Indeed, but I'm in Lit often enough to not be bothered by fandalorians in their various factions.

Wow, five pages since I last checked this thread, LACWAC has been busy. I approve.

I liked Bo-Katan simply because Katee Sackhoff provided perhaps the most natural sounding voice acting in the history of the show. She wasn't some caricature, she was just a woman talking. Most of the other voice actors modulate their voices in some way, in an attempt to be someone else, and though it's often amusing there is a certain artificiality to it that I don't usually notice because everyone does it. Katee came along and made me notice the difference between a natural voice and a "stage" voice.

As for her reaction to Pre's death, she obviously admired him. Shipping is possible, but I didn't see it. Along with her admiration for Pre, she doesn't want an outsider ruling over Death Watch and all of Mandalore, Maul isn't one of them. She's been resistant to Maul's involvement from the beginning, she didn't dedicate herself to the cause so some Sith maniac can walk in and take over.

And so TCW grows up. We lost our first major character this show has given us. And in such style.

I can't believe we had 4 episodes of that droid crap when we could have had more of THIS. I give huge props for bringing Almec back into it - I really hoped they would make S3's duology have meaning, and it has.

I wonder if he's gonna bring back poisoned tea to the schools of Mandalore.

What would you call it? Prebo? Boviz? Katla?

The best thing you can do with a bad episode is actually make it have real meaning. I actually enjoy "The Academy" in spite of the magical cloak remover. Almec's showdown with Ahsoka and Satine is actually pretty memorable.