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TCW Episode The Clone Wars - 5.15 - Shades of Reason - discussion thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Seerow, Jan 23, 2013.

  1. Togruta

    Togruta Jedi Master star 4

    Oct 30, 2010
    Just now commenting on the episode. Lots of action, death, progression, more death.. Stuff happened that mattered. I liked it.

    Though, Mandalore = planet of dumb blondes.
  2. Original Oatmeal

    Original Oatmeal Jedi Padawan star 1

    Jan 22, 2013

    I read the Plagueis book and enjoyed it.

    If I were to rewrite Star Wars, then Darth Maul would have been a dark fallen jedi. So, Maul would have the title and attributes that Count Dooku had. At the end of the Phantom Menace, I would either have Kenobi & Qui Gon Jin retreat or maybe have Maul injured. Maybe Maul fakes his death or almost dies. Maybe Maul's hate keeps him alive. Maybe not have Qui Gon Jin die in Phantom Menace.

    Maybe show Maul fight Sidious in the Revenge of the Sith. Maul would be the former master of Qui Gon Jin. In a New Hope, Kenobi fights Vader. Luke would have been the apprentice of Vader/Anakin that is if Vader was still good in a New Hope. So a New Hope shows three generations. Phantom Menace shows three generations.

    Phantom Menace
    2. Qui Gon Jin
    3. Kenobi

    1. Kenobi
    2. Anakin/Vader
    3. Luke Skywalker

    If I rewrote Star Wars, then Maul would have been smart like Dooku. Somehow Maul would return for the other films. As a writer, I would be tempted to not kill Darth Maul in the Revenge of the Sith. I think Maul would have been more exciting than Dooku.
    DavidIX and rumblewagon like this.
  3. Seanthings

    Seanthings Jedi Padawan

    Feb 8, 2012
    rumblewagon likes this.
  4. JackG

    JackG Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Aug 15, 2011
    Dooku and Grievous are good villains but the show just doesn't know how to use them, so they bring back Maul and create uber Force witches and cowboy bounty hunters. Dooku is one of the most interesting characters of the saga, imo, it's just the show has made him so "eviiiiil" instead of a political idealist/ darkside user who really strives for order and peace that the rise of the Empire will provide.
  5. Vialco

    Vialco Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Mar 6, 2007
    And he was right. Unlike Maul who got sliced in half during his second fight with Jedi, Dooku managed to defeat Anakin and Obi-Wan, who defeated Maul. Beyond that, Dooku held his own against Yoda, escaped to perpetuate the war for three years, withstanding everything the Jedi threw at him until the Chosen One killed him.

    A much more impressive performance than Maul.
    CT-867-5309 and rumblewagon like this.
  6. Merric

    Merric Jedi Knight star 1

    Jan 26, 2013
    Maul could have beaten Obi wan no problem. It's just that Maul was taunting him at the end. If he had just killed Obi wan on the spot (Which he could have easily done) he would have won.

    To add more to it, if Qui gon's lightsaber wasn't on the ground, Obi wan wouldn't have had anything to even use against Maul. :p
    K'Kruhk and rumblewagon like this.
  7. Darth Ibonek

    Darth Ibonek Jedi Knight star 2

    Jan 11, 2013

    But I think Maul could have done at least something when Obi jumped over him... Remember ROTS? Kenobi had the "higher ground"... and look what happened to Anakin's limbs when Anakin jumped over. Their jumps are almost identical
    Bo-Katan and Original Oatmeal like this.
  8. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Feb 28, 2003
    Sidious wouldn't know why Maul died. All he would know is that Qui-Gon is dead and Obi-Wan survived to tell the tale of the Sith warrior that attacked them and was defeated. All he would know is that Maul failed. It doesn't matter why he failed. If he failed because he was too stupid to finish Obi-Wan off and instead chose to take his time, taunt him, and allowing Obi-Wan time to regroup, that wouldn't make it any better.

    Meanwhile Dooku's achievements would be reflected in that Anakin lost an arm, Obi-Wan received several lightsaber wounds, and that Dooku has come out on top thus far in every confrontation with Anakin, he also managed to survive a confrontation with Yoda.

    Dooku is the better apprentice. Though his age is apparently something Sidious considers a drawback as he makes note to point out Dooku's age when speaking off the advantages of his future apprentice to Grievous. Perhaps Dooku's age makes him not someone worth a long term investment if he's going to die of natural causes before Sidious anyway and thus why bother expending energy into him long term? (just a guess).


    I just watched the commentary and... I know I've said this before, but I really wish they would make the Jedi and Sith a bit more spectacular. Filoni and Witwer keep hyping Maul up and commenting on his intelligence and how Sidious trained him well to be a brilliant Sith Lord and... what part of what Maul has accomplished required a Sith's education? Any ambitious warlord could come up with the "hey, I'll make it look like I'm a hero" scheme. It doesn't require 1,000 years of arcane knowledge to concoct that plan. It's like Jedi sagely wisdom and Sith brilliance are the equivalents of real world common sense.

    I mean nothing in Palpatine's rise to power (as depicted in the films) required any kind of connection to the Force.

    I mean back when I watched the OT and Vader remarks how the ability to destroy a planet pales in comparison to the power of the Force... I don't know that I ever really took that to mean that a Sith Lord could blow up a planet with the power of the Force, but I still expected that this supernatural power that they call upon would have greater significance than simply aiding them in a sword fight. Everything else that they do, the alliances that they make, the corruption that they exploit, etc. has nothing to do with their ability to use the Force. Where are the non-Force using intellectual equals in the senate that can play the game nearly as good as he can and actually force Sidious to work for his victory?

    He still pretty much looks like he gets to sit back, watch the war and press his "I win" button when the time is right. He doesn't seem to be given any kind of competent opposition, and the fact that he's a Sith is in no way relevant there, since nothing that he does requires Force usage.

    Here's hoping that Maul actually presents an interesting challenge, or that Sidious taking a more active role to ensure his victory expands beyond the next episode. People in the real world have pulled off schemes that have excelled due to greater brilliance and even a heavy dose of luck, and no supernatural power is required. To paint the Sith as these untouchable villains to everyone except the Jedi and reason that "it's because they have the Dark Side" just seems like a cop out.
  9. quigonobi3

    quigonobi3 Jedi Padawan star 1

    Mar 5, 2012
    Out of the two of them i think Maul has thwe better chance of surviving any duel with Sidious i think that Opress is too big and cumbersome,what we saw against Visla was a peview of what we could see whem Maul either comes up against Obi Wan again or against Sidious i think when it happens(i hope that it will be in the next episode) it will be a very close and hard duel and utterly cool and spectacular!!
    Original Oatmeal and Seerow like this.
  10. Merric

    Merric Jedi Knight star 1

    Jan 26, 2013
    I said it once before and i'll say it again. I hope Sidious kills Savage then Maul takes Savage's lightsaber and flees or something... I don't know. I just want to see Maul use A double blade againt Obi wan again. :)
  11. Original Oatmeal

    Original Oatmeal Jedi Padawan star 1

    Jan 22, 2013
    Can somebody start a poll. I want to find out who wants to see Sidious kill Maul. Part of me wants to see Sidious kill Maul. Part of me wants to see Maul kill Sidious. If the cartoons had Maul kill Sidious, imagine how people would react. It would create a lot of controversy. It would create major publicity which I think there is no such thing as bad publicity. Everybody will be asking, "If Maul kills Sidious then who did Vader kill in the Return of the Jedi?" I love plot twists. I would love for such a twist. People hate that Maul is back from the dead. People hate it when crazy things like that happens. I would love it.
  12. Seerow

    Seerow Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jun 7, 2011
    I'd think Maul might survive anything at this point. The guy already came back from getting cut in half. If Sids kills Maul he'd drop him in a vat of molten metal to make sure he is gone.
    Sitara likes this.
  13. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Force Ghost star 6

    Jan 5, 2011
    Didn't stop him the last time.
  14. 07jonesj

    07jonesj Jedi Master star 4

    Aug 16, 2010
    This would result in me abandoning the show because of utter stupidity. Twists only work when they make sense. That, and Sidious is clearly more powerful, and more intelligent, than Maul is.
  15. QuangoFett

    QuangoFett Jedi Master star 4

    Jun 11, 2011
    Here's an interesting rescoring of the Maul vs. Vizsla duel from a YouTube user:

    I particularly like the way this YT editor guy timed the Luke vs. Vader music to the climax of the duel. Kevin Kiner's scoring of this duel was some of his best work yet, but it's always interesting to see and hear combinations of TCW and John Williams.
    SithStarSlayer and Seerow like this.
  16. ImNotAStarWarsFanboy

    ImNotAStarWarsFanboy Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Feb 25, 2011
    I heard Duel of the Fates blasting out and I was like "Nah, this sucks."
  17. V-2

    V-2 Jedi Master star 5

    Dec 10, 2012
    I heard underwater sounding artefacts from low quality DSP and turned it off.
  18. Orrelios

    Orrelios Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Feb 21, 2005
    Maybe we'll see that CloneWarsRescore guy's version soon. He does a pretty swell job with his rescore videos.
    KED12345 and SithStarSlayer like this.
  19. DeviantSpirit

    DeviantSpirit Jedi Knight star 1

    Sep 3, 2012
    That video made me realise that if we don't get some sort of hint of Duel Of The Fates in the Clone Wars while Maul is present, I will be a very sad man. Doesn't even have to be the full theme, maybe even simply a small section like the Battle Of The Heroes from Mortis.
    Original Oatmeal likes this.
  20. 07jonesj

    07jonesj Jedi Master star 4

    Aug 16, 2010
    I think we will whenever Maul meets his end. That would be the smartest time to play it, anytime before and you can't really top that.
    Original Oatmeal likes this.
  21. KenobiSkywalker

    KenobiSkywalker Jedi Master star 4

    Sep 3, 2012
    They should play Battle of the Heroes next time Obi-Wan and Anakin have an argument. :p I kid.

    I agree though, if they play Duel of the Fates, it should be when Obi-Wan finishes him off.

    DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Jun 8, 2002
    I hope Maul and Savage don't buy it this early. :(
    Sitara and Original Oatmeal like this.
  23. Deputy Rick Grimes

    Deputy Rick Grimes Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Sep 3, 2012
    Maul should walk into a place with a boom box blaring Duel of the Fates :p
    Original Oatmeal likes this.
  24. 07jonesj

    07jonesj Jedi Master star 4

    Aug 16, 2010
    I'm lumping Maul in with Rex and Ahsoka as characters who won't die until the end of the show. TCW team hype Maul up way too much to let go of him now.
  25. ImNotAStarWarsFanboy

    ImNotAStarWarsFanboy Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Feb 25, 2011
    It's at the point of becoming tacky now. It was epic the first time but now it's synonymous with "bad fan score."

    Unless of course, we're talking about the Drum & Bass version. That is my jam.
    07jonesj likes this.