TCW Episode The Clone Wars - 5.16 - Lawless - discussion thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Seerow, Jan 30, 2013.

  1. Skaddix Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2012
    star 4
    Nah we are not geniuses we just don't suffer from PIS.

    I mean the fight was cool on all. But total fail from Obi-wan there.
    Last edited by Skaddix, Feb 2, 2013
  2. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Well, as "we all know" - say it in unison now - It's all Obi-Wan's fault.

    :mad:
  3. Skaddix Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2012
    star 4
    Yep what a failure. Jedi Master my a**. Fails to save the girl and fails to detect Palps. Added to his long list of fails.

    This is the problem with having the ending of the story written well in advance.
    Last edited by Skaddix, Feb 2, 2013
  4. JackG Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2011
    star 4
    Forget about Maul vs. Sidious: RED GUARDS!!!!!!!!

    [IMG]

    :cool:

    Also, what happened to Korkie?
  5. ImNotAStarWarsFanboy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2011
    star 5
    Can't help but note that this arc follows the same pattern of all the four parters of Season 4. First installment is alright, second is a big improvement, then it nosedives and crashes by the end of part 4.

    Umbara? Check.

    Hardeen? Check.

    Asaaj/Maul? Check.
    Mr. Atom Bomb likes this.
  6. KenobiSkywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    [face_laugh] Yoda could detect fear in Anakin and later, the return of Maul, but failed to notice a plot to overthrow the Jedi which involved millions of GAR troops. :oops:

    Looked like a mix of Mandalorian tea and steroids happened..
    Last edited by KenobiSkywalker, Feb 2, 2013
  7. The Shadow Emperor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2012
    star 4
    You can add that to the other mystery of the episode: where the heck did Bo-Katan get all those Death Watch allies at the end? I thought she only had eight or so on her side in Shades of Reason and at least half of those were killed during various firefights with Maul's forces, then all of a sudden whole shiploads of soldiers show up to help. Where did they come from? [face_thinking]

    Also, totally not sure whose death I felt sadder about--Satine's or Savage's. Both were incredibly well done and actually had me on the verge of tears. That's a first for TCW.
  8. fistofan1 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2009
    star 4
    Venamis was the first thing that popped into my head after the episode. I think it would be interesting to see Sidious continue his former master's work in the pursuit of immortality, as it's obvious in ROTS that Palpatine is still interested in discovering the secret. However, Sidious would probably focus on essence transfer and cloning when experimenting with Maul. I wonder if he knows any of Hego Damask's contacts on Kamino... [face_thinking]

    This episode was absolutely amazing. It was epic in every sense of the word. It brought closure to this arc while leaving a giant cliffhanger to keep the fans going intil Season 6.

    Pros:

    - The rescue attempt at the beginning was really well-done. I thought the Scooby Doo gang was unbearable in Season 3 but it looks like they've grown in their abilities. I actually kind of hope they show up again in the series since it's clear that they've grown into capable characters,

    - The humor that Obi-Wan brought to the table in the first half of the episode was really well-done, and it served as an extreme contrast to the darkness of the episode. I simply can't wrap my mind around the fact that the writers settle on dumb battle droid slapstick when they can obviously come up with some half-intelligent humor when they want to.

    - Satine's death scene was groundbreaking on several different levels. It was reminiscent of the scene in ROTS where Anakin chokes Padme, only Obi-Wan keeps calm and collected throughout the ordeal. It shows how stable he is compared to Anakin, and it raises the question of whether Anakin would have been able to handle Padme's death had the Council been more understanding when helping him sort out his emotions.

    - Maul's debate with Obi-Wan over the nature of the dark side before Satine died was particularly thought-provoking. I loved how Obi-Wan used Yoda's rationale behind the strength of the light side from TESB, and how Maul questioned the line between compassion and emotional instability. This show can be a philosophical goldmine when it wants to be. (Emphasis on "when it wants to be" :p)

    - The duel at the end was epic beyond words. First off, the animators perfectly captured Palpatine's style from ROTS. In addition, his maniacal cackling was right on target. I've always imagined his gleeful laughing during the Yoda duel in Episode III to be a result of hiding his true nature for so long. It makes perfect sense for him to use the opportunity presented to him in this episode to let loose some of that pent-up evil. [face_devil]

    - One visual decision I loved was having Sidious fight Maul and Savage in front of Guernica. What better place to have a dark side showdown than in front of such a well-known symbol of destruction and pain?

    Cons:

    - I'm still annoyed over the dumb-sounding names the cadets use. If I heard "Auntie" or "Korkie" one more time I may have screamed.

    - The revelation that Katan and Satine were sisters was pretty awkward. However, I can see some interesting storylines in the future now that we know Korkie's mother is a former member of Death Watch...

    - It kind of bothered me that Obi-Wan and Satine hardly had any interaction before she died. I mean, Obi-Wan all but recoiled when Satine hugged him in the prison cell. I know that it's not in Obi-Wan's character to give into his feelings at this point but I liked seeing his human side brought out by Satine.

    - I'm annoyed that Savage died without any character development. At all. I mean, I'm happy that his former personality was alluded to as he died but I would have liked to see more done with his character. Given the circumstances of his fall to the dark side there was a lot of room for growth and conflict for him.

    - There were way too many movie lines in the episode. From Maul's "I sense something..." to Obi-Wan's "I'm so sorry", they annoyed me to no end.

    Overall, this was one of the best episodes of the entire series. There were some aspects that got on my nerves but they were easily outweighed by all the episode's positive qualities. This was indeed a serious gamechanger and I can't wait to see where these developments lead us in the future!
    Last edited by fistofan1, Feb 2, 2013
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  9. ImNotAStarWarsFanboy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2011
    star 5
    I'm sorry but 'philosophical goldmine'? I think you're giving them way too much credit.
  10. hlc88 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    Well, that episode lived up to my expectations!!!

    Sad about Satine's fate but I thought that scene was very well done.

    The animation was amazing.

    And the duel was mouth-wateringly good.
    InterestingLurker and V-2 like this.
  11. Embomania Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2013
    star 1
    Can't say I agree, besides maybe with the Hardeen arc. I thought after watching the Umbara and Asajj/Maul arcs that the pay off was extremely satisfying:

    - The clones finally taking action against Krell was great! "it's treason, than" How can you not love that?

    - From Asajj getting a fresh start in life to teaming up with Obi-Wan was justified and came full circle. Very satisfying.

    - The Hardeen arc was satisfying but in a different way. It takes a little more time to realize how satisfying it is, especially in reference to ROTS. It's not as blatantly rewarding as the other two, but rewarding nonetheless.
    InterestingLurker likes this.
  12. Unbowed.Unbent.Unbroken Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 2012
    star 1
    Yeah, Witwer and Filoni's statements make me doubt that Maul will go the Venamis route...
    Sitara likes this.
  13. Slowpokeking Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    He was taunting Maul when he was choking Satine.
  14. ImNotAStarWarsFanboy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2011
    star 5
    Don't make me dig up my old reviews for those episodes. You won't like them.
    Last edited by ImNotAStarWarsFanboy, Feb 2, 2013
  15. KED12345 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2012
    star 4
    ... Palpatine can hide his force signature? He didn't seem to reveal his presence to anyone until he reached the throne room, otherwise Maul would have picked up on that one the moment Sidious stepped off his ship. In any case, Obi-Wan might have assumed the signature to be coming from the dark side power of the brothers combined. Hell, maybe he did pick up on Sidious, but seriously, in the middle of a civil war battle you don't stop and announce randomly "Gee, I sense a powerful figure here." That's something you keep to yourself until you can get it to the ears of other Jedi. Maybe if Anakin was there he might have.

    What could he have done to save Satine? She was doomed when the Twilight exploded. He was pretty badly hurt, they both just fell quite literally at least 100 feet onto solid concrete. Even if Obi-Wan had soften the blow for both of them with the force, he was still pretty dazed when it happened. Then, he's in the middle of the throne room with a Sith Lord and his brother surrounded by several Mandalorians with guns aimed at his head. He had no choice to watch and deal with it.
    Valairy Scot and KenobiSkywalker like this.
  16. Slowpokeking Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    Ugh,

    1. Come with Anakin together. In the book he was eagerly willing to come, it got cut only because the time limit?
    2. Don't taunt Maul when he was choking her?
  17. ImNotAStarWarsFanboy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2011
    star 5
    So if Obi Wan had just sat there in silence, Maul wouldn't have killed her after all, and it was only because he wouldn't shut up that she eventually got gutted?

    Yeah, no.
    CT-867-5309, FARK2005, hlc88 and 3 others like this.
  18. Embomania Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2013
    star 1
    I could care less, really. You have your opinion and I have mine. I'm simply giving my opinion, not trying to change yours.
  19. Slowpokeking Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    Maul was trying to lure Obi Wan to the Dark Side, so he would not kill Satine too soon, of course he would torture her, as long as she lives, there is hope.

    It's just like when someone is holding a hostage, is it wise to taunt them?
  20. Jabba_The_Hutt_123 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2003
    star 3
    It's irrelevant if Maul would have killed her anyway, it's better to try not to antagonise the angry guy holding her just in case, he gained nothing by his argument.
  21. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 4
    Yeah, that was my question, too. How much time has gone by? These are the same kids, no?
  22. Jabba_The_Hutt_123 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2003
    star 3
    Maybe they did that face change thing Obi Wan did as a disguise, but the dumb kids didn't change themselves enough.
  23. hlc88 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    Maul would have killed her anyway. I think as soon as he learned that she was a friend of Obi-Wan's, he always intended on killing her. She wouldn't have got out that throne room alive.
    FARK2005, V-2 and Valairy Scot like this.
  24. eukaryote Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 2008
    Oh my God owiehgowiahewiehwejgasdgheoh

    Poor Satine. Poor Obi-Wan. :_| I even feel kind of bad for Savage.

    - Bo-Katan and Satine being sisters still annoys me to no end, so I'm just going to pretend that it never happened.
    - Great animation, they really have come a long way. Obi-Wan's emotions would have been completely invisible had it not been for his facial expressions.
    - Satine's death was so very well done. I was really afraid that they'd screw it up and it wouldn't be very moving, but it was. Satine is my favorite TCW character, so I wanted it to be flawless.
    - I really wish they hadn't taken out the dialogue between Anakin and Obi-Wan.
    - The dark side conversation between Maul and Obi-Wan was top notch, especially when Obi-Wan called him weak.
    - The whole Maul/Savage/Sidious scene was superb. I liked the way Maul chokes out "master" when he realizes he's come for a visit. I was really expecting Sidious to kill Maul though. Don't know how much I like him staying alive. It'll depend on what Sidious does with him. I would prefer that Obi-Wan get to be the one to finish him off, but I know that'll never happen.

    It's a 9.5/10 for me. Will very happily download it once it's on iTunes.
  25. Slowpokeking Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    He would, but not that soon before he got enraged, he was clearly trying to lure Obi Wan into Dark Side, for this reason he would torture her for a long time before the killing, and that could give others time for the rescue.

    I'm not saying Satine should die slow and painfully, but as long as Maul does not kill her right way, there could be chance.

    Just like a guy holding a hostage, even if he is keep saying he will kill her, is it wise to taunt him?

    This caused Maul to go enraged and killed Satine right way.
    Last edited by Slowpokeking, Feb 2, 2013