TCW Episode The Clone Wars - 5.16 - Lawless - discussion thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Seerow, Jan 30, 2013.

  1. Slowpokeking Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    Maul would mostly kill Satine yes, but he was not going to do it that soon if Obi Wan didn't enrage him. Remember he was torturing her to let Obi Wan go to the Dark Side before he was enraged, so he would not kill Satine soon because he needed her as a tool to let Obi Wan succumb. In this kind of situation the best choice is to buy more time, as long as Satine is alive there would be chance for others to rescue her.

    It's just like someone took a hostage, he said he will kill her and he does hate her, but is it wise enrage him? No.

    It's a hard job but he got no other choice since it could be solved better if he didn't refuse Anakin's help.
    Last edited by Slowpokeking, Feb 2, 2013
  2. DavidIX Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 1
    She was going to get axed either way. But Obi-Wan should of shut his mouth so Satine wouldn't take the brunt of Mauls rage. That was pride talking there from Obi-Wan.
  3. V-2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 4
    Mostly kill her? Like Kenobi mostly killed Maul? :p
  4. fistofan1 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2009
    star 4
    I got the impression that Obi-Wan was trying to stall Maul with his banter. In Revenge he kept Maul from cutting him with the lightsaber by making fun of him. Maybe he was trying to delay Satine's death in the same way.
    pronker likes this.
  5. Slowpokeking Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    As long as she is alive, there is still hope and chance, try the best to get some time. Isn't that what love is about? "She's going to die anyway so I'm gonna attack his belief!" is not something either morally right or reasonable.

    I'm saying there is at least 95% chances that he would kill her, but he was not going to do it that soon if he was not enraged, as long as Satine could live longer for a moment, there would be more chance for her to be rescued.
    Last edited by Slowpokeking, Feb 2, 2013
  6. V-2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 4
  7. Slowpokeking Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    Of course he would not have such hard work if he didn't refuse Anakin's help.
  8. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
  9. Yodaminch Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2002
    star 6
    I'm reading all these comments about how Maul doesn't seem the type to beg for mercy. I disagree. First of all, Maul was an abused puppy to his Master. Sidious was never kind to Maul. For years we've known that to be true through other novels and comics. He forged Maul into a weapon. The minute Maul senses Sidious, the fear in his voice is evident. Sure he tries to attack him, only after Sidious attacks first. He might have believed himself able to overthrow Sidious with Savage's help, but I suspect Maul was waiting until Savage was more trained and he had recuperated more.

    As to mercy, surely its obvious that there is NOTHING Maul fears more than death. This is a guy who survived being cut in half and endured countless suffering to avoid the release of death. He's petrified of death. And more than likely he was petrified of what he knows Sidious is capable of. He probably knew how agonizing Sidious could make his death. So Maul begging is really not that much of a surprise.
  10. DavidIX Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 1
    You would think after everything Obi-Wan has done for the damn Republic and the Jedi order Yoda would send some other Jedi to aid Obi-Wan. I understand what the plot called for, but not the way they executed it. What happened to doing the right thing?

    And where was Anakin in all of this, Playing twister with Padme??
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  11. Slowpokeking Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    Satine told Obi Wan her sister would help them, so there is hope.

    As for Anakin

    He was offering help but Obi Wan refused it.
    Last edited by Slowpokeking, Feb 2, 2013
  12. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    Obi-Wan had zero reason to think that Maul and Savage would be there, using Satine as bait. This is all addressed directly in the episode. Obi-Wan says that he learned from Ahsoka that Death Watch and the CIS had a falling out, and his disbelief at seeing Maul and Savage alive implies that he believed them to be dead, or at the very least had no reason to expect them to be leading Death Watch. If the Jedi knew that Maul was behind it, then they would have likely sent help, just as they sent Adi with him in Revival and in Revenge Mace states that capturing Maul is a high priority.

    The Jedi didn't send help because Obi-Wan even stated that it was likely an internal affair and thus the Jedi could not send official help without consent from the senate and the Jedi all knew that the senate would not consent to helping a neutral system unless the CIS (or Maul) was involved. Obi-Wan thought he was sneaking in to rescue Satine from Death Watch, something he apparently felt he could handle alone and an endeavor that the Council would not support. Obi-Wan was disobeying the Council in a personal matter and likely didn't want to involve Anakin (made clear in the passage quoted).

    Had he known that Maul was behind everything, then yes, he likely would have taken Anakin and/or other Jedi and/or many, many clones with him to capture Maul and liberate Mandalore.
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Feb 2, 2013
  13. Togruta Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2010
    star 4
    I had the impression that Obi-Wan went without telling anyone, considering Yoda and Mundi told him "We can't do anything without the Senate's approval". Maybe Anakin was simply not around.
  14. Slowpokeking Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    Maul got nothing to do with his failure at all, the Death Watch were chasing them, shot Twilight down, then what difference will it make if Obi Wan was facing Viszla, Bo-Katan and a bunch of Death Watch? And from Satine's message it's clear that the situation is more serious, there are crime families aiding the Death Watch.

    Satine was in danger, so of course more help would be good.

    He did discuss it with Anakin like I quoted, it got deleted due to time issue but is in the book.
    Last edited by Slowpokeking, Feb 2, 2013
  15. DavidIX Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 1
    If you put it like that I can almost accept that he asked for mercy. But he shouldn't of done it the way he did, he looked like he was about to cry.
    Fish On The Sand likes this.
  16. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Slowpokeing is correct in that Anakin offered and that scene was roughed out, but cut from the episode although remains in the book.

    That is about all I agree with Slowpokeing on, though.

    I wonder how much trouble Obi-Wan will be in upon his return.
  17. Darth_Cronos Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2009
    So i have watched the sidious duel 10x over and i was wondering, that last line DS says to maul is that still the same voice actor? i ask because it sounds like the tone completely changed it was just like in palpatines office when he anointed vader
  18. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    It doesn't matter. Mandalore is a neutral planet, and the Jedi cannot interfere in the affairs of a neutral planet without consent from the senate, and the senate would not give consent. The Jedi independently deciding to interfere on Mandalore without permission would cause a **** storm in completely disregarding the sovereignty of a planet and disobeying the senate. And obviously Obi-Wan did not want Anakin involved in that backlash, nor did he have any expectation of being shot down in his get-a-way. Obi-Wan was getting involved due to his personal feelings, and he was prepared to face the consequences of his actions, but didn't want Anakin to do the same.
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Feb 2, 2013
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  19. Slowpokeking Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    I do think Obi Wan might be able to get away he was facing Viszla, Bo-Katan and a few Death Watch after Twilight's crash, but not like he could get away with carrying the unconscious Satine.
  20. DavidIX Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 1
    So is anyone else looking forward to a Dooku v.s Maul duel?
  21. Samayel_ Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2012
    star 2
    i agree.
    note to that, read the comic "Marked" from SW Tales
  22. Slowpokeking Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    And Anakin was still willing to help, why didn't he go with him? What backlash? What backlash could be worse than Satine's death? How is 2 different than 1 Jedi get involved?Even Obi Wan felt disgusted about these politics in the book.
    Last edited by Slowpokeking, Feb 2, 2013
  23. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    If one happens. We didn't get a S5 trailer at the end of S4, and I'm wondering if we'll get a repeat of that this season. There's only vague tidbits of what we'll see in the future (and most of it isn't even explicitly confirmed for next season, might even be S7 before we see some of the stuff mentioned in Q&A sessions and interviews).

    I'd be very happy to see Dooku in an episode/arc as good as this past one period, as well as seeing him duel ANYONE that isn't Anakin.
  24. Togruta Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2010
    star 4
    Don't see how deleted scenes in a book matter..

    When I heard Sidious say he has use for Maul, killing Ahsoka came to mind. I guess it could be Talzin, or even Ventress, he did want Dooku to kill her and that didn't happen.
  25. Blue_Jedi33 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2003
    star 5
    I think that Maul will be used by Sidious to help push Anakin towards the path to the dark side, he might have an assignment, kill Asoka in front of Anakin.
    Last edited by Blue_Jedi33, Feb 2, 2013
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